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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 16 2012 04:33 Fliparoni wrote: Dont worry, tang. Haters gonna hate. Nothing you can do about that. What you can do something about is just keep on making good guides with good content like you have been lately. Keep up the good work. Thanks Fliparoni <3 | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
"As far as the merits of cheesing go: I personally believe that straight up cheese is the best way to learn the game, as you learn how to control a few units, learn how to kill an opponant, and learn to macro while controlling units. Why build a ton of units on a ton of bases when you can't even properly control a few units on 1 base? Others may disagree, but I think they are wrong." It's an issue of quality. Why would you try and back up your guide with VODs that were almost a year old in some cases, from different patches? This alone is an indicator of how little went into this guide. Why would you not scout at all until 4 minutes? The scouting is even more critical than usual if you want to hit an early-game timing (this is what we should substitute for "cheese" btw); you may find that your build is not likely to succede, so you can pull back before the point of no return and transition, at the least, into a 2 base all-in. These are important aspects of early aggression. And yet they do not feature in this guide. If you are a PC and your friend is a Mac, and your friend is going to buy his computer from some sketchball in an alley, would you not say to him, "Hey! Look, I don't care if you buy a Mac, just for the love of God please use a more reputable source." Others may also be coaches, but I challenge you to find a single person who self-promotes harder than Tang. For all the formatting and proper spelling and grammar, the guides are lacking in content. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 16 2012 05:12 rikter wrote: It's an issue of quality. Why would you try and back up your guide with VODs that were almost a year old in some cases, from different patches? This alone is an indicator of how little went into this guide. Why would you not scout at all until 4 minutes? The scouting is even more critical than usual if you want to hit an early-game timing (this is what we should substitute for "cheese" btw); you may find that your build is not likely to succede, so you can pull back before the point of no return and transition, at the least, into a 2 base all-in. These are important aspects of early aggression. And yet they do not feature in this guide. For all the formatting and proper spelling and grammar, the guides are lacking in content. I provide a "References" section as further reading/listening for my guides, which I consider pretty standard practice. I even made four fresh tutorials specifically on the topic of this Zerg vs Zerg build. In terms of content, I can't please everyone. I write guides to provide knowledge and tactics that I think will help people. If you don't think they're a valuable resource because the content hasn't helped you, then that's unfortunate. You need only read the comments to see that it has helped others, so perhaps your own bias is all that is holding you back from making improvements in your own play. When I first started making guides, I was passionate about it but I went about it in the wrong way by being overly self-promotional. It was a mistake, but I received advice from the TL community and mods. Thanks to all of your help, I've learned a lot from my previous errors and made some necessary changes. I look forward to your quality guides on how to play aggressive Zerg properly, Riktor, and I appreciate your compliments about my spelling and grammar. Self-promotion =/= Bad Person | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
[B]On April 16 2012 05:23 TangSC wrote: I made four tutorials specifically on the topic of this Zerg vs Zerg build. I look forward to your quality guides on how to play aggressive Zerg properly, and I appreciate your compliments about my spelling and grammar. Classic. You pick and choose what you answer, and try to shift the focus. I don't care about the four tutorials. At some point, when making this guide, you took those particular replays and added them. And I don't see how you could possibly have mistaken them for recent. So, regardless of what else you did, at the very least you half-assed that. Wouldn't recent replays, from the current patch and metagame be more useful to us? You follow this up with an of ad hominem attack about me writing z v z guides. What does this have to do with anything? This isn't about me writing guides, this is about you writing "guides" and to what end. My signature is not in response to you, but in these circumstances it is appropriate. Even moreso because you are charging money. If this is the content you charge for, then people need to know they can get much better for free. If your coaching is somehow on a higher level than these guides, then these really are just teaser ads, and/or you are posting information that you know to be inferior. Which is it? If you like, you can come participate in my hotkey thread "semi-grid layout (terran)", where we talk about hotkeys and no one has any financial interest. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 16 2012 05:53 rikter wrote: Classic. You pick and choose what you answer, and try to shift the focus. I don't care about the four tutorials. At some point, when making this guide, you took those particular replays and added them. And I don't see how you could possibly have mistaken them for recent. So, regardless of what else you did, at the very least you half-assed that. Wouldn't recent replays, from the current patch and metagame be more useful to us? You follow this up with an of ad hominem attack about me writing z v z guides. What does this have to do with anything? This isn't about me writing guides, this is about you writing "guides" and to what end. My signature is not in response to you, but in these circumstances it is appropriate. Even moreso because you are charging money. If this is the content you charge for, then people need to know they can get much better for free. If your coaching is somehow on a higher level than these guides, then these really are just teaser ads, and/or you are posting information that you know to be inferior. Which is it? If you like, you can come participate in my hotkey thread "semi-grid layout (terran)", where we talk about hotkeys and no one has any financial interest. As impressed as I am that you know what ad hominem is, I made that argument to establish that you lack the ethos to support your claims. Besides, those particular replays are directly relevant to the game, as are the newer replays from season 6 that I posted. There haven't been major shifts in ZvZ, at least not in relation to the style I'm advocating. If you want to know whether my coaching is valuable, then who better to ask than those who have actually been coached by me: http://tangstarcraft.com/?page_id=5 http://www.z33k.com/games/starcraft2/coach/tangsc I've been an English and Essay Writing tutor for nearly seven years, if there is anything I'm good at, it's teaching. Coaching is individualized for a particular student, I ask new students to fill out surveys so I can design lessons specifically for them. These Team Liquid threads are more broad/general guides that can be applied to most players. | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
On April 16 2012 06:02 TangSC wrote: As impressed as I am that you know what ad hominem is, I made that argument to establish that you lack the ethos to support your claims. Besides, those particular replays are directly relevant to the game, as are the newer replays from season 6 that I posted. There haven't been major shifts in ZvZ, at least not in relation to the style I'm advocating. If you want to know whether my coaching is valuable, then who better to ask than those who have actually been coached by me: http://tangstarcraft.com/?page_id=5 http://www.z33k.com/games/starcraft2/coach/tangsc I've been an English and Essay Writing tutor for nearly seven years, if there is anything I'm good at, it's teaching. Coaching is individualized for a particular student, I ask new students to fill out surveys so I can design lessons specifically for them. These Team Liquid threads are more broad/general guides that can be applied to most players. Writing guides and playing games are two different skills, being good at one is no guarantee of the other. Your guides lack in fundamentals; I don't have to be the Shakespeare of ZvZ guides to understand that, just someone with some understanding of the game. There is no reason for you to question my credibility based on my lack of guides. There is no argument there, just an ad hominem attack, a misdirection. The fact that you don't seem to understand why replays from 9 months ago are irrelevant today does not reflect well on your knowledge of the game. You have conveniently not answered all of my questions. I know that you know how to write because you so carefully pick and choose what you respond to, and even then you respond with a bunch of information that I did not ask for, nor do I care to know. Your responses are designed to cloud the issue and confuse people. | ||
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CP`
Canada38 Posts
On April 16 2012 05:12 rikter wrote: Others may also be coaches, but I challenge you to find a single person who self-promotes harder than Tang. Why does it matter how hard someone self-promotes? If anything it just shows that he has more dedication to his passion than others. How about you stop grasping at straws and just stop posting in this thread, considering most of the last posts that aren't you or Tang all agree that you're acting like a fool. It looks rather petty and pathetic that you are singling him out. It doesn't matter what the quality of his coaching or guides are as long as people find value in them and believe that their investment (in the case of paying him to coach them) is worth it. | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
If you think I am grasping at straws, and that my arguments are weak, what could you possibly think of Tang, who is evasive and who simply ignores questions he doesn't want to answer, or answers questions you didn't ask instead of the ones that you did? Tang isn't being singled out, he stands in a class by himself, because I can't think of a single other person on TL who behaves this way. | ||
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Stog
United States1 Post
 your guide is great! i like reading them keep it going!!! | ||
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CaptTerrible
United States72 Posts
I feel like the only other thing that could be written in this guide is more along the lines of a general ZvZ guide, like handling cheese, late game transitions, what to do when you're behind, but to be completely honest I think that would all be out of the scope for this guide. Just got to say thanks for the work put into this guide and the others you have posted. Between the 12 Min Max guide, the Roach/Bling all in guide, and the Rushing Relentlessly guide I have made huge amounts of progress in my game :D I'll definitely be keeping an eye for future guides. | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
If nothing Tang does or says resonates with you, then that's totally fine but that is in the end just your own opinion and it doesn't mean you have to go ruin thread's like these for others. Just ignore it and move along with your life and let others who do find the content written by Tang to be useful read it without having to be subjected to this useless hating. The fact that you come here out of of your way to try and convince people that Tang is this or that and bash people who think otherwise makes me think you are in fact the one who has failed some kind of life test. | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
I've read the testimonials on your site Tang, what a ridiculous load of garbage. The posts all appear to be written by you, or at least the same person. Just like the posts on this thread from low post acounts. In fact, one of the names on the comments corresponds to yet another low post acount that has popped up to defend you in another thread. It's true, if you keep responding to me from your main acount your weaseling will become more and more obvious, but really, enough with the puppet acounts. | ||
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
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rikter
United States352 Posts
If this guide is his best work, he isn't much of a coach. And if his understanding of the game does go deeper, then why is he knowingly providing inferior information? Just because someone doesn't have high level execution doesn't mean they can't understand or apply high level strategy. A useful guide is one that takes high level strategy and helps make its core concepts accessable to lower ranked players. Tang's guides are dumbed down bullshit justified by saying, essentially, that it doesn't matter because some lower ranked players who had trouble with the matchup and can now win a few games, so who cares? Tangs worthless guides show just how little he thinks of and believes in you. But seriously, go to his website, read the student testimonials, and tell me with a straight face you believe they are real, and not all written by the same person. | ||
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discw
United States122 Posts
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DeathScythe
United States15 Posts
I used to be a horrible silver zerg player. After reading tangs guides I went from silver to top 3 plat in 3 weeks. Tang is a very down to earth person who just enjoys teaching (he even responded when i thanked him in SC2 for posting in TL) I welcome any player who is willing to post useful content that helps players get better. No offense but 90% of post here are either bad info or QQ threads. I really appreciate users like tang and such. So again thank you tang, good or bad you trying to help the community. I do not see a problem with you posting a link to your website, because this is the top 1% of useful information on this forum. I find the insults here extremely didactic and slightly hypocritical. If anyone has any questions about tangs strats feel free to message me in game BlackDragon #140 Thank you for reading. | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
I am sorry to hear that you think this guide represents the top 1% that TL has to offer; there's a whole wide world of good stuff out there. | ||
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DeathScythe
United States15 Posts
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rikter
United States352 Posts
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