EPT[G] 1 base robo PvZ - Page 14
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On January 02 2012 07:27 navy wrote: really strong strategy. As Zerg I've played against this a few times before seeing this thread and assumed there had to be a thread somewhere lol. With perfect elevatoring you can take on pretty much anything. Mass ling is not an answer. The best way ive found is at least 5 queens, some spines (at least 3) and roaches anyways. Lings wont really do anything while there are FFs, youre better off to reionforce with ling after the all FFs are used up though. Even so I only hold it half the time, so there might be a better way. How can you elevator with queens or hydras sniping the WP before it can even come in? If you go mass ling, you should get up to 6 queens, 2 for injects and 3-4 to snipe the WP to shut down the elevator that comes with the push. Then you just bait FFs and keep massing lings. | ||
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matrius
100 Posts
I know a lot of zerg will just drone drone drone seeing a FFE setup, and that first drop would be devastating. Only thing would be fast muties happen quite a bit vs ffe, so have to make sure that the attack is on time (although you could easily scout this with the drop). What do you think? On January 01 2012 14:05 Lobber wrote: There's no good way to expand with this tbh, maybe expo off the warpprism harass and do a different tech path, but that's about it. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
On January 02 2012 22:16 Cheerio wrote: Well this build gets countered by 6 pool which is pretty popular now. no? if u encounter 6pool often, open like white ra: 1st gate hugging the nexus and then wall off with core&gate or try to wall off our ramp with a pylon. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On January 02 2012 22:35 schaf wrote: no? if u encounter 6pool often, open like white ra: 1st gate hugging the nexus and then wall off with core&gate or try to wall off our ramp with a pylon. wonna test it vs me on europe? | ||
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Tobias
Sweden187 Posts
On January 02 2012 22:16 Cheerio wrote: Well this build gets countered by 6 pool which is pretty popular now. Get zealot before core, use a temporary pylon or a few probes until the stalker pops? The BO with 9 pylon, 13 gate, 17 core, and zealot on hold position is perfectly standard and only requires the usual changes to hold 6 pools. | ||
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Rabo
United States40 Posts
On January 02 2012 21:41 matrius wrote: OK, thanks for the reply Lobber. Um, another idea popped into my head (last one I promise!) - what about doing a FFE, but not actually expanding, and then doing your build? On maps like shakuras you could wall off, sink in like 300 minerals into forge and cannon, but have natural protected and then just do build normally, but be able to safely expand if you needed too... I know a lot of zerg will just drone drone drone seeing a FFE setup, and that first drop would be devastating. Only thing would be fast muties happen quite a bit vs ffe, so have to make sure that the attack is on time (although you could easily scout this with the drop). What do you think? I think an overlord will be able to spot the lack of a nexus, and the zerg will cancel his 3rd and go into major defense mode. For example, on shakuras, my overlord can be in your natural early enough even on cross position. Since zergs normally want to scout protoss's gas timings, they will send at least one overlord by your natural. While zerg's response is delayed until he scouts your lack of nexus, so will you, because you built a forge and a cannon. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On January 02 2012 23:21 Tobias wrote: Get zealot before core, use a temporary pylon or a few probes until the stalker pops? The BO with 9 pylon, 13 gate, 17 core, and zealot on hold position is perfectly standard and only requires the usual changes to hold 6 pools. I know its standard, and it standardly loses to well executed 6 pool. You think 6 pool is so bad you can hold it with no scouting and yet people get GM with it? And "zealot on hold position" part is just hilarious. | ||
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Tobias
Sweden187 Posts
On January 02 2012 07:35 Flonomenalz wrote: How can you elevator with queens or hydras sniping the WP before it can even come in? If you go mass ling, you should get up to 6 queens, 2 for injects and 3-4 to snipe the WP to shut down the elevator that comes with the push. Then you just bait FFs and keep massing lings. There are so many "you just" posts in this thread. Everything is so easy in theory, then you get to practice where it looks like the protoss is about to do a gate expand and you build a few roaches and suddenly a warp prism arrives out of nowhere and blows half your mineral line up. Or it looks like the protoss is going to do an immortal drop on you and you get a bunch of queens and zerglings, and suddenly he's at your ramp with a colossus and a handfull of sentries. All these "you just" posts so far are assuming you know from the beginning that this push is coming when it's way more common to be up against a FFE or a 3-gate expand in which case mass queens+lings are kind of worthless. If you instead look at the choices you can make when you actually scout this build it's no longer "you just", but "you must". EDIT: I'd say this build or variations on it will be for PvZ what 4-gating was in PvP; the build that always has to be taken into account. | ||
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Tobias
Sweden187 Posts
On January 02 2012 23:49 Cheerio wrote: I know its standard, and it standardly loses to well executed 6 pool. You think 6 pool is so bad you can hold it with no scouting and yet people get GM with it? To be honest I routinely go zealot before core and make sure I have a probe hotkeyed to block with a pylon just in case as sometimes you just end up scouting the 6-pool too late. Doesn't really put you behind more than a few seconds, so I don't see the point of taking the risk of going core before zealot. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On January 02 2012 23:52 Tobias wrote: To be honest I routinely go zealot before core and make sure I have a probe hotkeyed to block with a pylon just in case as sometimes you just end up scouting the 6-pool too late. Doesn't really put you behind more than a few seconds, so I don't see the point of taking the risk of going core before zealot. Your habit of getting zealot before core is very sweet but we are talking about a very specific bo with very specific play style (no scouting and stuff). So unless your playing style has something to do with the topic keep it to yourself. | ||
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Tobias
Sweden187 Posts
On January 03 2012 00:02 Cheerio wrote: Your habit of getting zealot before core is very sweet but we are talking about a very specific bo with very specific play style (no scouting and stuff). So unless your playing style has something to do with the topic keep it to yourself. I can tell you're really fond of your playing style (by the sound of it you 6-pool every game) and you really want to keep winning with it, but A: even if the exact BO in the OP is a loss to a 6-pool on small maps most zergs don't 6-pool as they know they die if it's held and B: a tiny variation of the BO on small maps renders 6-pools useless. Is it ok to discuss variations of the original build order, or do you think I should start [D] The 1 base immortal drop in PvZ, possible variations ? Don't you think the discussion of this BO actually belong in THIS thread, even though parties in that discussion disagree with you? | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On January 03 2012 00:09 Tobias wrote: I can tell you're really fond of your playing style (by the sound of it you 6-pool every game) and you really want to keep winning with it, but A: even if the exact BO in the OP is a loss to a 6-pool on small maps most zergs don't 6-pool as they know they die if it's held and B: a tiny variation of the BO on small maps renders 6-pools useless. Is it ok to discuss variations of the original build order, or do you think I should start [D] The 1 base immortal drop in PvZ, possible variations ? Don't you think the discussion of this BO actually belong in THIS thread, even though parties in that discussion disagree with you? Clearly you can tell wrong. I dont even 1v1 as zerg for months now (i'm protoss lol). Sent you a PM with invitation for a test. See you in game if you really wonna clear it out. | ||
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Tobias
Sweden187 Posts
On January 03 2012 00:21 Cheerio wrote: Clearly you can tell wrong. I dont even 1v1 as zerg for months now (i'm protoss lol). Sent you a PM with invitation for a test. See you in game if you really wonna clear it out. Clear what out, exactly? Oh, wait, I know! You're one of those little kids that believe that no matter what the discussion is actually about, the one that wins a game is right? User was warned for this post | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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Tobias
Sweden187 Posts
On January 03 2012 02:48 Cheerio wrote: Tobias, the ones like you should be baned from strategy section. You have no idea what you are talking about, instead of proving your point you start flaming (if i say 6 pool is good and counters a build than im surely someone who can win only by 6 pooling which is also ad hominem) the opponent, and you are not even remotely interested in the simplest test (what build is simplier to test than 6 pool?) to uncover the trooth and flame me for proposing to do that. You start out by telling me to shut up and then start talking about ad hominem? You're a piece of work, really  But are you saying that 9 pylon, 13 gate, 17 zealot, 17 core with pylon block and a few probes does NOT stop a 6-pool? I don't really see why we need to play a match to see it. | ||
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matrius
100 Posts
I'm not a GM, but I know these facts: 1) a 6 pool will get to your base before a 13 gateway will spit out a zealot 2) if you can scout, you should chrono boost your zealot but even so you might not quite make it 3) a pylon next to the nexus, and then a gateway next to the pylon/nexus handily takes care of this 4) as the gateway is building, put a pylon near a ramp, and then follow up with the core and a gateway to close the gap I do this build all the time, I usually make a zealot before core, and ALWAYS make a zealot right away if I haven't been able to scout and will only lose a couple of probes with a little micro vs a 6 pool because my zealot pops just as the zerlings get to the mineral line, and they are always way behind. You can always scout the opponent by the time the gateway is building, and in that case you just chrono zealots and put pylons next to your nexus and you can't lose. I've done it and after the initial rush had 4 zealots and had killed all his zerglings, I walled off and was like 10 workers ahead. Made a small army and pushed and it was over, because the zerg HAS to drone hard to even stay in the game, so a counter attack will always either win or inflict a lot of damage, they really can't recover without doing a lot of damage with the 6 pool. I got this from one of the gosu's on this site, can't remember which one right now... | ||
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Xenomorph
United States137 Posts
Generally once the zealot is in place this build is very difficult to stop, but as the OP admitted it can be beaten. I do have somewhat of an issue with zergs saying that just early mass lings beats this, as any zerg that does so can generally fall easily to this build. I imagine what the OP said about lots of spines/queens/lings with a defensive posture would work a lot better. | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
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