EPT[G] Grandmaster by 6pooling, how to - Page 41
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antihobo
Canada121 Posts
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On August 28 2012 21:13 Bad_Habit wrote: seems like my half years ban is over  i stopped playing like 2 months ago when i was like the highest master in eu only facing gms and beeing favorite. waiting for hots beta just to harass ppl so they cant ever get new units since they will have to face my 6pool! i have to mention this strats are possible to execute and yet the best early game allins, at least in my eyes. same as my eco 7pool still is the best of his kind. when im watching some top zergs go for their "bad" ecopools it just hurts and i feel they are beeing ignorant^^ Everyone has their speciality, you're a god at early pooling, but if these top zergs would see your standard play, it would probably hurt them too ;D | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
On July 23 2012 21:09 Thesper wrote: No. No no no no. No no. No. You can hold early pools with 15hatch if you play well. For more info look for Belial88's guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295586. I also like that you put "<10 pool" when the nearest thing to a blind 15 hatch hard counter is Nestea's 10 pool with 8 drones pulled. And even that might be holdable with a blind 15hatch (see the Stoic guide to ZvX thread and videos). There are builds that have a good chance of killing a blind hatch first player if they mess up, but I would say there is probably ZvZ build that currently autowins against hatch first and definitely no build that autowins against hatch first with drone scout. the problem is that most ppl who copy / execute these builds have no idea how to hold most allins. therefore, they are being greedy, although its possible to hold everything with the build they use. its not as bad as 6pooling every game though, cause u learn more from being greedy than from cheesing^^ | ||
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david0925
212 Posts
Doing something like "15 CC/Hatchery/Nexus" is just "as cheesy" as the "cheese" people talk about because you are taking advantage of the maps getting bigger, well fortified natural expansions, etc. So people cut a bunch of corners all the time when they shouldn't be able to (when we see nothing but workers from both parties for the first 7 minutes? yeah). I agree that games are more interesting when you can actually access your tier 2 and 3 units in a macro game, and I almost never "cheese" in solo leagues, but these kind of very early all-in aggressions (Proxy Gate/Cannon, Early Pool, SCV/Marine all in) are just as legitimate as the long macro games. I love how some people go as far as marking such plays as "immoral". | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 28 2012 23:09 david0925 wrote: It's so retarded that people complain about "cheese". I don't even know why the concept is there, but in strategy game you do whatever it takes to win. If there is an issue with balance with said cheese, it gets fixed. Four Pool/Six Pool have existed since the dawn of Starcraft, and the only "nerf" to it as far as I remember was the adjustment of Spawning Pool from 150 to 200 minerals. Take a look at the map changes. Aside from that, I agree, mostly because I like situations where I can just micro Probes around to kill lings. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On August 28 2012 23:09 david0925 wrote: It's so retarded that people complain about "cheese". I don't even know why the concept is there, but in strategy game you do whatever it takes to win. If there is an issue with balance with said cheese, it gets fixed. Four Pool/Six Pool have existed since the dawn of Starcraft, and the only "nerf" to it as far as I remember was the adjustment of Spawning Pool from 150 to 200 minerals. Doing something like "15 CC/Hatchery/Nexus" is just "as cheesy" as the "cheese" people talk about because you are taking advantage of the maps getting bigger, well fortified natural expansions, etc. So people cut a bunch of corners all the time when they shouldn't be able to (when we see nothing but workers from both parties for the first 7 minutes? yeah). I agree that games are more interesting when you can actually access your tier 2 and 3 units in a macro game, and I almost never "cheese" in solo leagues, but these kind of very early all-in aggressions (Proxy Gate/Cannon, Early Pool, SCV/Marine all in) are just as legitimate as the long macro games. I love how some people go as far as marking such plays as "immoral". who? and this opinion has been posted a million times already in this thread. I think people know the different sides of the issue now. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
Most people seem to just continue berating op telling him he has no skill/macro well obviously, his games last what 5-9 mins? | ||
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Debian
Canada95 Posts
On August 28 2012 21:13 Bad_Habit wrote: seems like my half years ban is over i stopped playing like 2 months ago when i was like the highest master in eu only facing gms and beeing favorite. waiting for hots beta just to harass ppl so they cant ever get new units since they will have to face my 6pool! i have to mention this strats are possible to execute and yet the best early game allins, at least in my eyes. same as my eco 7pool still is the best of his kind. when im watching some top zergs go for their "bad" ecopools it just hurts and i feel they are beeing ignorant^^ Wait, why did you get banned for half a year? Was it a TL ban or Bnet ban? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
there are no two sides of the issue. that would imply both sides have legitimacy. ppl who whine about cheese are scrubs. Isn't that view just as 'illegitimate' as you just called out? Cheese can be frustrating to deal with. Doesn't make you a scrub when it's obnoxious to play against. I'm pretty sure everyone feels that way. I don't think anyone is saying it shouldn't be a part of the game, but there is a certain point where it's bad (1 base play only in pvp for example, the coinflip of zvz openers). Wait, why did you get banned for half a year? Was it a TL ban or Bnet ban? TL ban, you can look at his post history (profile->posts) and browse through his recent posts to see if it got him banned. You can also search the automated ban thread. | ||
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Bad_Habit
Germany243 Posts
On August 29 2012 04:57 Debian wrote: Wait, why did you get banned for half a year? Was it a TL ban or Bnet ban? didnt get banned for 6pooling yet. only forgot the "s" of "she" and sadly i was talking about a transvistite QQ | ||
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MogA
Switzerland43 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
No, it doesn't work on any map pool in ZvZ. This build doesn't work on even Steppes of War. But it works really well against opponents who don't know how to respond. Check out my anti-6 pool guide here on how to beat this build on any map, including on Steppes of War and Daybreak, to all other types of 6/7/8 Pool, and laugh and take free wins against anyone dumb enough to 6/7/8 pool. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295586 Oh and I'll just post this here: I was thinking of posting the following as a new guide. Since that old 6/7/8 pool guide is too long... | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/SC2Z_small.png) vs Hi. I'm a 1200+ Masters Zerg, who also wrote:
This is a new guide on how to beat all types of 6/7/8 Pools with Hatch First, as well as a few types of 10 Pools. The other guide was way too long, and too wordy. This is an update 6/7/8 Pool Drone All-in + Show Spoiler + Build Order + Show Spoiler + 7 Pool, Drone 6xLings Send All but 2 Drones when Lings nearly finish @140 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick 4xLings, send last 2 drones Continue to Drone up, and make an overlord. Cancel Nat. Send out a drone to put a spine in his base, then base trade when he arrives. This is because you want to plant a spine in his base as your last building, as spines can walk off creep without losing health, and if you screw up, you can force a stalemate by not killing his hatch. An extractor works, but a spine makes things much easier. When he arrives at your base, run to his base via mineral walking (If you defensively drone stack, then right click another mineral patch, then right click a mineral patch in his base or at another base before they arrive to the currently destined patch, they will stay stuck as 'one drone'. Rally lings, careful not to lose them. If you get out with 4+ Lings, you will win a straight up fight easily. If you get out with 2+ Lings, you will need to micro If you get out with less than 2 lings, you will lose without superior micro. Force a stalemate, or bumrush his last building, his spine, if he lets your drones get between him and his spine (15 drones will kill a walking spine quicker than 10 lings+6 Drones can kill the 15 drones) Getting enough Lings out: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-245929.jpg) Focusing his spine down because you didn't get any lings out: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-246521.jpg) 6 Pool with Mass Lings (with 0-2 Spines) + Show Spoiler + A 6/7/8 Pool with Lings rallied and may or may not have a Spine. If he doesn't make a spine, make 2 spines in your mineral line, and defensively mineral walk to protect it, as you will win any battle inside the mineral line with a full surround. But most people make spines, so: Continue droning up, make an overlord, Cancel Nat. Pull 4 Drones to focus 1 spine at a time, and be extremely aggressive in the open, you will easily win. If someone does a 6 Pool with Spine, attack. Do not be afraid to be extremely aggressive - the opponent will not have enough lings or units to beat your army. Aggressively attack toward him, and then pull 4+ drones to attack the spine. If he makes 2 spines, be even more aggressive, as no ling reinforcements will be on the way, and you can definitely win the battle. The key here is really, really, really being super aggressive with your drones in this fight. Micro is also important. Use hold position on hurt drones, and if you just have a few drones attacking and able to be attacked (like going through a choke), box over them and mineral walk them to retreat them to the back of the line. Never engage in a choke. As you can see in this replay, I'm extremely aggressive against the 6 Pool Double Spine, and just absolutely crush his army, taking any chance he backs off, to kill his spines. Don't pull 4+4 drones per spine, only pull 4 drones at a time to focus a single spine at a time, and then with the rest of the drones, attack (if you pull 8 of your drones away, you won't win a fight). Simply work one spine down, then the other, and if he runs away, pull the fighting fleet of drones to attack the other spine. The reason you can't, say, just put X+1 spines in your mineral line and defensively drone stack and pool lings and wait until the spines pop, so you can re-root and engage, is because a 6 pool + Spines can actually focus your hatch down before your spines finish, and that just sucks. PS: If anyone is dumb enough to just attack your drones, defensively drone stack (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) and kill all his units. Sometimes you'll run into stupid people who will just a-move into your drones, and you defensively drone stack and they'll lose everything to it, even when they have a spine on the way (at which point you can just overwhelm that spine quite easily). Zero Spines ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-245922.jpg) 2 Spines http://drop.sc/240313 10 Pool Baneling + Show Spoiler + CheckPrime first showcased this as an anti-hatch first build, and after Nestea's 10 pool, this has since fallen out of favor. Still deadly, but beatable. Build Order + Show Spoiler + - 10 Pool - 10 Gas - Overlord, Extractor trick - Constant Lings, Morph Banelings at opponent's base To beat this: - Morph 3 Spines in Mineral Line, a little bit spread out so baneling splash doesn't wipe all of them out easily (he shouldn't go for them, but if he does) - 2xQueens - Spread your drones very well You actually need to micro pretty well to beat this, as in spread your drones like a boss (you should see him morphing banes and start working on splitting right away). It's okay if you lose half your drones, with 2 queens, 2+ spines, and a hatch, you should be immune to further aggression. 10 pool Speedling + Show Spoiler + Nestea used this against DRG. It failed, because it can be easily held off. No one has done it since. Build Order + Show Spoiler + 10 Gas, Drone 10 Pool, Overlord Speed, Pull from Gas Queen, Lings Make a spine in Nat and Main. 2 Queens Mass Lings when you see he's clearly 10 Pooling (Pull drones if necessary) Block the ramp So how can you tell it's a 10 Pool that's pooling speedlings, and not, say a 14/14 all-in? Send that overlord you sent to his nat, to check into his main real quick. If a Queen is there, it's a 10 Pool. Or, if you see Lings flowing across the map ~3:00 (a 10 pool finishes around 2:50) without drones backing them up, and he isn't morphing banelings in your base. It's pretty easy to beat this. Now that you know it's a 10 pool speedling, you'll want to make a spine in both your main and nat (if he sends his initial lings immediately over, this is important, as well as when the speedling mass comes). Pool lings at your ramp, where him having speed won't mean anything, and hold position with your queens there, and eventually bring the spine from your nat, to your natural, when you see you can clearly hold the ramp. http://drop.sc/239613 Masses up http://drop.sc/239614 Attacks straight away 10 Pool Plain + Show Spoiler + Curious does this from time to time. Just defensively drone stack while getting Queens, Lings If he only sends lings, do not run around in circles around your hatchery like Lalush did vs Curious. Instead, defensively drone stack in a recessed mineral patch (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) until your Lings, Queens pop. Pretty straightforward. Don't cancel your natural, just pull your drones and queens to save it if he goes for it. This type of 10 pool is pretty silly. 10 Pool with 8 of 12 Drones Pulled and 1-2 Spines + Show Spoiler + For a long time, considered the way to beat Hatch First with a BO win, and recently, seen as beatable. Well, what recent pros have been doing, like Jaedong vs Soulkey, would actually not work if the 10 pooler puts a spine in the natural of the opponent asap, and then the 2nd spine in the main. However, never fear, there's a way to beat it. Build Order + Show Spoiler + - 10 Pool @125 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick, Drone scout for Hatch First - 8+ Lings - Send 8 of 12 drones when Lings are about to pop - Make 1 Spine at each base of opponent or 2 Spines You lose | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 30 2012 00:20 Belial88 wrote: vs Hi. I'm a 1200+ Masters Zerg, who also wrote:
This is a new guide on how to beat all types of 6/7/8 Pools with Hatch First, as well as a few types of 10 Pools. The other guide was way too long, and too wordy. This is an update 6/7/8 Pool Drone All-in + Show Spoiler + Build Order + Show Spoiler + 7 Pool, Drone 6xLings Send All but 2 Drones when Lings nearly finish @140 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick 4xLings, send last 2 drones Continue to Drone up, and make an overlord. Cancel Nat. Send out a drone to put a spine in his base, then base trade when he arrives. This is because you want to plant a spine in his base as your last building, as spines can walk off creep without losing health, and if you screw up, you can force a stalemate by not killing his hatch. An extractor works, but a spine makes things much easier. When he arrives at your base, run to his base via mineral walking (If you defensively drone stack, then right click another mineral patch, then right click a mineral patch in his base or at another base before they arrive to the currently destined patch, they will stay stuck as 'one drone'. Rally lings, careful not to lose them. If you get out with 4+ Lings, you will win a straight up fight easily. If you get out with 2+ Lings, you will need to micro If you get out with less than 2 lings, you will lose without superior micro. Force a stalemate, or bumrush his last building, his spine, if he lets your drones get between him and his spine (15 drones will kill a walking spine quicker than 10 lings+6 Drones can kill the 15 drones) Getting enough Lings out: Focusing his spine down because you didn't get any lings out: 6 Pool with Mass Lings (with 0-2 Spines) + Show Spoiler + A 6/7/8 Pool with Lings rallied and may or may not have a Spine. If he doesn't make a spine, make 2 spines in your mineral line, and defensively mineral walk to protect it, as you will win any battle inside the mineral line with a full surround. But most people make spines, so: Continue droning up, make an overlord, Cancel Nat. Pull 4 Drones to focus 1 spine at a time, and be extremely aggressive in the open, you will easily win. If someone does a 6 Pool with Spine, attack. Do not be afraid to be extremely aggressive - the opponent will not have enough lings or units to beat your army. Aggressively attack toward him, and then pull 4+ drones to attack the spine. If he makes 2 spines, be even more aggressive, as no ling reinforcements will be on the way, and you can definitely win the battle. The key here is really, really, really being super aggressive with your drones in this fight. Micro is also important. Use hold position on hurt drones, and if you just have a few drones attacking and able to be attacked (like going through a choke), box over them and mineral walk them to retreat them to the back of the line. Never engage in a choke. As you can see in this replay, I'm extremely aggressive against the 6 Pool Double Spine, and just absolutely crush his army, taking any chance he backs off, to kill his spines. Don't pull 4+4 drones per spine, only pull 4 drones at a time to focus a single spine at a time, and then with the rest of the drones, attack (if you pull 8 of your drones away, you won't win a fight). Simply work one spine down, then the other, and if he runs away, pull the fighting fleet of drones to attack the other spine. The reason you can't, say, just put X+1 spines in your mineral line and defensively drone stack and pool lings and wait until the spines pop, so you can re-root and engage, is because a 6 pool + Spines can actually focus your hatch down before your spines finish, and that just sucks. PS: If anyone is dumb enough to just attack your drones, defensively drone stack (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) and kill all his units. Sometimes you'll run into stupid people who will just a-move into your drones, and you defensively drone stack and they'll lose everything to it, even when they have a spine on the way (at which point you can just overwhelm that spine quite easily). Zero Spines 2 Spines http://drop.sc/240313 10 Pool Baneling + Show Spoiler + CheckPrime first showcased this as an anti-hatch first build, and after Nestea's 10 pool, this has since fallen out of favor. Still deadly, but beatable. Build Order + Show Spoiler + - 10 Pool - 10 Gas - Overlord, Extractor trick - Constant Lings, Morph Banelings at opponent's base To beat this: - Morph 3 Spines in Mineral Line, a little bit spread out so baneling splash doesn't wipe all of them out easily (he shouldn't go for them, but if he does) - 2xQueens - Spread your drones very well You actually need to micro pretty well to beat this, as in spread your drones like a boss (you should see him morphing banes and start working on splitting right away). It's okay if you lose half your drones, with 2 queens, 2+ spines, and a hatch, you should be immune to further aggression. 10 pool Speedling + Show Spoiler + Nestea used this against DRG. It failed, because it can be easily held off. No one has done it since. Build Order + Show Spoiler + 10 Gas, Drone 10 Pool, Overlord Speed, Pull from Gas Queen, Lings Make a spine in Nat and Main. 2 Queens Mass Lings when you see he's clearly 10 Pooling (Pull drones if necessary) Block the ramp So how can you tell it's a 10 Pool that's pooling speedlings, and not, say a 14/14 all-in? Send that overlord you sent to his nat, to check into his main real quick. If a Queen is there, it's a 10 Pool. Or, if you see Lings flowing across the map ~3:00 (a 10 pool finishes around 2:50) without drones backing them up, and he isn't morphing banelings in your base. It's pretty easy to beat this. Now that you know it's a 10 pool speedling, you'll want to make a spine in both your main and nat (if he sends his initial lings immediately over, this is important, as well as when the speedling mass comes). Pool lings at your ramp, where him having speed won't mean anything, and hold position with your queens there, and eventually bring the spine from your nat, to your natural, when you see you can clearly hold the ramp. http://drop.sc/239613 Masses up http://drop.sc/239614 Attacks straight away 10 Pool Plain + Show Spoiler + Curious does this from time to time. Just defensively drone stack while getting Queens, Lings If he only sends lings, do not run around in circles around your hatchery like Lalush did vs Curious. Instead, defensively drone stack in a recessed mineral patch (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) until your Lings, Queens pop. Pretty straightforward. Don't cancel your natural, just pull your drones and queens to save it if he goes for it. This type of 10 pool is pretty silly. 10 Pool with 8 of 12 Drones Pulled and 1-2 Spines + Show Spoiler + For a long time, considered the way to beat Hatch First with a BO win, and recently, seen as beatable. Well, what recent pros have been doing, like Jaedong vs Soulkey, would actually not work if the 10 pooler puts a spine in the natural of the opponent asap, and then the 2nd spine in the main. However, never fear, there's a way to beat it. Build Order + Show Spoiler + - 10 Pool @125 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick, Drone scout for Hatch First - 8+ Lings - Send 8 of 12 drones when Lings are about to pop - Make 1 Spine at each base of opponent or 2 Spines You lose omfg | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On August 30 2012 00:33 AnomalySC2 wrote: The only part that's unfair about early pools is the fact that Terran and Toss both had their early game cheeses nerfed out but zerg hasn't (because no one uses it). This was done by a zealot build time nerf and making it so you can't build a barracks without a depot, also the build time increase. Also the queen ranged buff. Those cheeses were a lot harder to handle than 6pooling, which anyone can handle really. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On August 30 2012 00:20 Belial88 wrote: vs Hi. I'm a 1200+ Masters Zerg, who also wrote:
This is a new guide on how to beat all types of 6/7/8 Pools with Hatch First, as well as a few types of 10 Pools. The other guide was way too long, and too wordy. This is an update 6/7/8 Pool Drone All-in + Show Spoiler + Build Order + Show Spoiler + 7 Pool, Drone 6xLings Send All but 2 Drones when Lings nearly finish @140 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick 4xLings, send last 2 drones Continue to Drone up, and make an overlord. Cancel Nat. Send out a drone to put a spine in his base, then base trade when he arrives. This is because you want to plant a spine in his base as your last building, as spines can walk off creep without losing health, and if you screw up, you can force a stalemate by not killing his hatch. An extractor works, but a spine makes things much easier. When he arrives at your base, run to his base via mineral walking (If you defensively drone stack, then right click another mineral patch, then right click a mineral patch in his base or at another base before they arrive to the currently destined patch, they will stay stuck as 'one drone'. Rally lings, careful not to lose them. If you get out with 4+ Lings, you will win a straight up fight easily. If you get out with 2+ Lings, you will need to micro If you get out with less than 2 lings, you will lose without superior micro. Force a stalemate, or bumrush his last building, his spine, if he lets your drones get between him and his spine (15 drones will kill a walking spine quicker than 10 lings+6 Drones can kill the 15 drones) Getting enough Lings out: Focusing his spine down because you didn't get any lings out: 6 Pool with Mass Lings (with 0-2 Spines) + Show Spoiler + A 6/7/8 Pool with Lings rallied and may or may not have a Spine. If he doesn't make a spine, make 2 spines in your mineral line, and defensively mineral walk to protect it, as you will win any battle inside the mineral line with a full surround. But most people make spines, so: Continue droning up, make an overlord, Cancel Nat. Pull 4 Drones to focus 1 spine at a time, and be extremely aggressive in the open, you will easily win. If someone does a 6 Pool with Spine, attack. Do not be afraid to be extremely aggressive - the opponent will not have enough lings or units to beat your army. Aggressively attack toward him, and then pull 4+ drones to attack the spine. If he makes 2 spines, be even more aggressive, as no ling reinforcements will be on the way, and you can definitely win the battle. The key here is really, really, really being super aggressive with your drones in this fight. Micro is also important. Use hold position on hurt drones, and if you just have a few drones attacking and able to be attacked (like going through a choke), box over them and mineral walk them to retreat them to the back of the line. Never engage in a choke. As you can see in this replay, I'm extremely aggressive against the 6 Pool Double Spine, and just absolutely crush his army, taking any chance he backs off, to kill his spines. Don't pull 4+4 drones per spine, only pull 4 drones at a time to focus a single spine at a time, and then with the rest of the drones, attack (if you pull 8 of your drones away, you won't win a fight). Simply work one spine down, then the other, and if he runs away, pull the fighting fleet of drones to attack the other spine. The reason you can't, say, just put X+1 spines in your mineral line and defensively drone stack and pool lings and wait until the spines pop, so you can re-root and engage, is because a 6 pool + Spines can actually focus your hatch down before your spines finish, and that just sucks. PS: If anyone is dumb enough to just attack your drones, defensively drone stack (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) and kill all his units. Sometimes you'll run into stupid people who will just a-move into your drones, and you defensively drone stack and they'll lose everything to it, even when they have a spine on the way (at which point you can just overwhelm that spine quite easily). Zero Spines 2 Spines http://drop.sc/240313 10 Pool Baneling + Show Spoiler + CheckPrime first showcased this as an anti-hatch first build, and after Nestea's 10 pool, this has since fallen out of favor. Still deadly, but beatable. Build Order + Show Spoiler + - 10 Pool - 10 Gas - Overlord, Extractor trick - Constant Lings, Morph Banelings at opponent's base To beat this: - Morph 3 Spines in Mineral Line, a little bit spread out so baneling splash doesn't wipe all of them out easily (he shouldn't go for them, but if he does) - 2xQueens - Spread your drones very well You actually need to micro pretty well to beat this, as in spread your drones like a boss (you should see him morphing banes and start working on splitting right away). It's okay if you lose half your drones, with 2 queens, 2+ spines, and a hatch, you should be immune to further aggression. 10 pool Speedling + Show Spoiler + Nestea used this against DRG. It failed, because it can be easily held off. No one has done it since. Build Order + Show Spoiler + 10 Gas, Drone 10 Pool, Overlord Speed, Pull from Gas Queen, Lings Make a spine in Nat and Main. 2 Queens Mass Lings when you see he's clearly 10 Pooling (Pull drones if necessary) Block the ramp So how can you tell it's a 10 Pool that's pooling speedlings, and not, say a 14/14 all-in? Send that overlord you sent to his nat, to check into his main real quick. If a Queen is there, it's a 10 Pool. Or, if you see Lings flowing across the map ~3:00 (a 10 pool finishes around 2:50) without drones backing them up, and he isn't morphing banelings in your base. It's pretty easy to beat this. Now that you know it's a 10 pool speedling, you'll want to make a spine in both your main and nat (if he sends his initial lings immediately over, this is important, as well as when the speedling mass comes). Pool lings at your ramp, where him having speed won't mean anything, and hold position with your queens there, and eventually bring the spine from your nat, to your natural, when you see you can clearly hold the ramp. http://drop.sc/239613 Masses up http://drop.sc/239614 Attacks straight away 10 Pool Plain + Show Spoiler + Curious does this from time to time. Just defensively drone stack while getting Queens, Lings If he only sends lings, do not run around in circles around your hatchery like Lalush did vs Curious. Instead, defensively drone stack in a recessed mineral patch (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) until your Lings, Queens pop. Pretty straightforward. Don't cancel your natural, just pull your drones and queens to save it if he goes for it. This type of 10 pool is pretty silly. 10 Pool with 8 of 12 Drones Pulled and 1-2 Spines + Show Spoiler + For a long time, considered the way to beat Hatch First with a BO win, and recently, seen as beatable. Well, what recent pros have been doing, like Jaedong vs Soulkey, would actually not work if the 10 pooler puts a spine in the natural of the opponent asap, and then the 2nd spine in the main. However, never fear, there's a way to beat it. Build Order + Show Spoiler + - 10 Pool @125 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick, Drone scout for Hatch First - 8+ Lings - Send 8 of 12 drones when Lings are about to pop - Make 1 Spine at each base of opponent or 2 Spines You lose Lol I remember when you first wrote that guide, I ran into you in teamliquid chat, and because I didn't believe you, I went ahead and offraced zerg and beat you like 10 times in a row with some variant of early pool, but a different one each game xD I assume you fixed things after that ^^. Just made me remember funny stuff haha. edit - I remember especially the part where you complained that I was microing my lings/drones too much and they weren't dying xD. Ahhh good times. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On August 30 2012 00:39 tehemperorer wrote: Those cheeses were a lot harder to handle than 6pooling, which anyone can handle really. Harder to handle or the terran and toss players used them better/more often? The only top zergs I've seen that use early pools both won GSL, fruitdealer and nestea. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
The only part that's unfair about early pools is the fact that Terran and Toss both had their early game cheeses nerfed out but zerg hasn't (because no one uses it). This was done by a zealot build time nerf and making it so you can't build a barracks without a depot, also the build time increase. Also the queen ranged buff. I would have no problem if they made pool require 2 overlords, but you should never lose to a 6/7/8 pool as T or P. P can go pylon scout so they can reactively go nexus first safely every time, and T can beat early pool with cc first and 1 rax FE, just like zerg can. And the old zealot build times and rax build times made it so zerg had no way to possibly hold 2 rax or 2 gate with a standard pool first. At least with early pools you can survive if you go forge first or 1 rax expand, ie 'standard' openers. Maybe you just remember things wrong. People like to make out like Zerg is a bunch of whiners or something, you never played 5 rax reaper. You basically had to do a 7RR just to not autolose. Lol I remember when you first wrote that guide, I ran into you in teamliquid chat, and because I didn't believe you, I went ahead and offraced zerg and beat you like 10 times in a row with some variant of early pool, but a different one each game xD I assume you fixed things after that ^^. Just made me remember funny stuff haha. edit - I remember especially the part where you complained that I was microing my lings/drones too much and they weren't dying xD. Ahhh good times. I don't really recall. When were the games? They could have been before I had found a solution. What you say doesn't sound correct, that I would complain about you micro'ing your units. If anything, I'd specifically ask for you to micro them. Most likely though, you were probably one of a couple trolls who would ask me to help them or see if the solution they came up with would work, and then troll when it didn't work, as if they had beat me, when I specifically did not do what I state you should do in the guide. i just recall a lot of rude people like you. | ||
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