EPT[D] The value of Adrenal Glands - Page 2
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
I think he's still living the days where 12 lings + 1 darkswarm could take out a cannon defended Protoss expo in seconds. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On October 22 2011 17:05 decaf wrote: I do upgrade it when I got the money, but 200 200 is quite an investment if you haven't had a huge economy lead all game long. But yea, it's definitely underused (probably because it was much better in bw). 200/200 is NOT an investment in lategame play, pretty much the end. I play protoss, but jesus, that is 2 sentries and a zealot, i have to replace that crap all the time, surely you can spend TWO HUNDRED GAS when you are sat on 70-80 drones and pumping out lings as your core army? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On October 22 2011 17:09 Micket wrote: Going back to Day9, he certainly does overrate it. By listening to him during the Select Dimaga game, it sounded by his voice tone that Dimaga would have crushed had he got the upgrade, which is simply not true. I think he's still living the days where 12 lings + 1 darkswarm could take out a cannon defended Protoss expo in seconds. Select had 10-12 medivacs that he kept alive the whole game, i think Adrenal would have atleast doubled the cost efficiency of Dimaga's engagements. | ||
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
The only thing that hurt my eyes during the games of Idra vs Bomber in MLG is Idra not getting Adrenal Glands while sitting on so much income. | ||
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NiNLicorice
Sweden84 Posts
On October 22 2011 16:32 Micket wrote: Planetaries with building armor still don't die to lings I do believe 6 fully upgrades lings with glands take out a planetary fortress. I do not 100% remember but I believe it was so, no repair that is. | ||
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enemy2010
Germany1972 Posts
On October 22 2011 13:28 Jermstuddog wrote: (...) Why are pros refusing to research this upgrade? Imo they simply forget that its there.  | ||
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HuggyBear
Australia377 Posts
On October 22 2011 22:53 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: There is no reason in the end-game to NOT get Adrenal Glands as the 200/200 investment is so so small and the Zerg player has already the tech in place for the upgrade. The only thing that hurt my eyes during the games of Idra vs Bomber in MLG is Idra not getting Adrenal Glands while sitting on so much income. He probably forgot considering there was so much going on in that game. I'm actually proud of him in that game considering there were so many wrong things he could've done that would put him on tilt but he held on strong through the series Most of the time I just forget to get adrenal considering late game zerg is mostly remaxing and trying to not die | ||
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derive
France31 Posts
I do believe 6 fully upgrades lings with glands take out a planetary fortress. I do not 100% remember but I believe it was so, no repair that is. .... With 6 fully upgraded lings attacking simultaneously from different directions the PF goes from 1500 to ~1300. | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On October 22 2011 14:39 yeastiality wrote: Sometimes, you can't afford to get it. What I saw again and again during the last MLG cast was IdrA with 70 gas, having just remaxed mostly on non-zergling units, and Day9 or somebody would say "jeez why isn't he getting adrenal glands?" It's a good upgrade but it's not a staple, and 200 gas isn't cheap if you're down to the wire fighting someone like Bomber who never runs out of units. Exactly. IdrA needed the gas for other tech units at the moment. I think if the game is passive and the player Zerg knows it will go on for a bit, they will get the upgrade. However if any engagement in the near future could decide the game, they pour everything into that engagement. That or IdrA simply forgot. | ||
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JediGamer
United States656 Posts
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On October 22 2011 16:32 Micket wrote:Planetaries with building armor still don't die to lings and you aren't touching that Terran ball without Hive tech units, in which case lings are pure fodder. No, really? Why would you try to take out a planetary fortress with Zerglings? You wouldn't try to storm Fort Knox with tommy guns and spiffy suits, even if the guns fired twice as fast as regular tommy guns. | ||
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yeastiality
Canada374 Posts
One thing I've see July do (and I've done it myself at my horrible diamond level) is getting +2 melee, +2 armor, ultralisk armor and adrenal glands all at once when your economy blows up on a fast hive with a melee-based army. For me, it sorta makes intuitive sense - ultras benefit more from a large boost in armor (since tanks and things still kill +2 carapace lings as if they're +1 lings, and ultras have loads of health to 'make use of' armor) but lings benefit from quickly raising their DPS (like someone mentioned, it makes healed marines less difficult to take on). Once your lings and ultras reach the fight, you want the ultras to have armor and the lings to do lots of damage and cycle between targets quickly. Both upgrades are geared toward that. With someone like IdrA who has a very rigid (and excellent) ZvT style, you won't see this as much because he's constantly producing mutalisks and demolishing stuff with them. Not only are the upgrades less valuable to someone whose ground army is smaller, but it's much harder to afford them. In the IdrA vs Bomber series, I really don't remember any times that he was floating lots of gas and didn't start the upgrade...but if it happened, it's probably because he was flustered with how intense that game was. | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
On October 22 2011 17:05 Cyro wrote: We see pro's almost everyday fighting with 100+ lings without adrenal when hive was done 10 minutes ago and they are floating 5k/3k etc When and if you are floating 3000 gas then sure why not, but most times people dont have that much | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
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j0ker
275 Posts
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Lixler
United States265 Posts
On October 22 2011 13:28 Jermstuddog wrote: So I see Day9 continually harp on top Zergs neglecting the Adrenal Gland upgrade in ZvT. While I initially disliked this due to the underwhelming nature of the upgrade, I eventually have to start siding with him. That upgrade makes all the difference. Let's talk numbers. Assuming 3/3 on both sides: A fully-upgraded Marine has 45hp after stim and can be healed to a maximum of 55. A medivac heals at 9hp/sec. A zergling with no adrenal gland deals 7.2 DPS, leaving the target marine with a net gain of 1.8 heals while pumping out their insane damage. An Adrenal Gland Zergling deals 8.5 DPS, reducing that same assumed net gain of HPs down to 0.5 A 72% increase in effective DPS of 1 zergling vs 1 healed marine! Isn't this math misleading? You can't really use the "net dps" to show gains in dps in general especially by percentages, because at certain numbers it will look way more powerful than it is. Say we're in a universe where a zergling without adrenal does the same dps as a medivac heals, and then adrenal glands adds .01 dps to the zergling. We'd then according to this kind of analysis or whatever say that adrenal glands adds infinity percent effective dps to the zergling when attacking a healed marine. | ||
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phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
if the target has 1000 hp or 500hp/s healing, its still just 20% increase in zergling dps.. | ||
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