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So I see Day9 continually harp on top Zergs neglecting the Adrenal Gland upgrade in ZvT.
While I initially disliked this due to the underwhelming nature of the upgrade, I eventually have to start siding with him. That upgrade makes all the difference.
Let's talk numbers.
Assuming 3/3 on both sides:
A fully-upgraded Marine has 45hp after stim and can be healed to a maximum of 55.
A medivac heals at 9hp/sec.
A zergling with no adrenal gland deals 7.2 DPS, leaving the target marine with a net gain of 1.8 heals while pumping out their insane damage.
An Adrenal Gland Zergling deals 8.5 DPS, reducing that same assumed net gain of HPs down to 0.5 A 72% increase in effective DPS of 1 zergling vs 1 healed marine!
2 Zerglings dead 5.4 net DPS to a marine, but 2 Adrenal Lings deal 8 net DPS a 48% increase in effective DPS!
In short. Due to the existence of Medivacs in ZvT, Adrenal Glands is probably the best use of 200/200 in the late game.
Why are pros refusing to research this upgrade?
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I sometimes wonder what would happen if you broodlings got crack upgrade. It would make the brood lord the worse mother ever as it would be throwing her crack addicted baby suicide bombers.
I think people just forget it since it is quite useful but its not necessary since you aren't relying on zerglings to deal damage, only pin. Now if zerg doom dropped it would be different but since they focus on making a death ball, its not strickly the best thing ever.
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It's basically a +4 attack that is cheaper, researches faster, and can be researched at the same time as +3. It really does make a big difference in ling dps, and lets them trade pretty well with marines.
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United Kingdom20294 Posts
It is the most important upgrade for zvt lategame... i wrote this sig like a week ago because it seems like everyone is unaware how amazing this upgrade is because the "20% dps increase" is far more due to interaction with healing.
Get the word out 
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It's crazy how good adrenal is haha, such a simple thing! Maybe there should be like adrenal rush builds.
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United Kingdom20294 Posts
On October 22 2011 13:38 KimJongChill wrote:
It's crazy how good adrenal is haha, such a simple thing! Maybe there should be like adrenal rush builds.
Yes.
Upgrades increase ling damage by soooooo much...
13.6dps instead of 7.2 with 3 attack and adrenal.
Medivacs heal at 9hp/sec.
The interaction between dps and healing is really really important for combatting any number of forces with medivacs using lings, and in general rushed 3/3 lings with adrenal would clean up anything on the ground... massive numbers of siege tanks and hellions would deal with them, but marines? Drops in general? Completely worthless.
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And don't forget.... No gas. And those dps numbers are for EACH ZERGLING.
People assume hydras are the dps dealers.
Think of 4 lings vs 1 hydra. Lings get more dps. By far with this upgrade.
Problem though... 3/3/3 zlots, forcefields, tanks, colossus.......
wait... so basically protoss.... stupid op protoss, lol
But I agree, after watching Idra not use it in his matches, I will always remember to vs terran.
I never seem to get that far though...
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United Kingdom20294 Posts
On October 22 2011 13:50 Blu3 wrote:
And don't forget.... No gas. And those dps numbers are for EACH ZERGLING.
People assume hydras are the dps dealers.
Think of 4 lings vs 1 hydra. Lings get more dps. By far with this upgrade.
Problem though... 3/3/3 zlots, forcefields, tanks, colossus.......
wait... so basically protoss.... stupid op protoss, lol
But I agree, after watching Idra not use it in his matches, I will always remember to vs terran.
I never seem to get that far though...
3/3 lings with adrenal beat 3/3/3 charge zealots in any choke, and annihilate them with a surround.
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adrenal glands is such an amazing upgrade. anyone going melee and not getting this upgrade late game is foolish.
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On October 22 2011 14:00 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:50 Blu3 wrote:
And don't forget.... No gas. And those dps numbers are for EACH ZERGLING.
People assume hydras are the dps dealers.
Think of 4 lings vs 1 hydra. Lings get more dps. By far with this upgrade.
Problem though... 3/3/3 zlots, forcefields, tanks, colossus.......
wait... so basically protoss.... stupid op protoss, lol
But I agree, after watching Idra not use it in his matches, I will always remember to vs terran.
I never seem to get that far though... 3/3 lings with adrenal beat 3/3/3 charge zealots in any choke, and annihilate them with a surround.
actually in a unit tester i found just now that 1 zel will defeat 4 lings (both sides fully upgraded) where only 2 lings can attack at a time. they do well with a surround but not annihilation by any means..16 lings fully surround 4 zealots for the entire duration of the fight and theres 7 lings left at the end.
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United Kingdom20294 Posts
On October 22 2011 14:31 orbit2021 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:00 Cyro wrote:On October 22 2011 13:50 Blu3 wrote:
And don't forget.... No gas. And those dps numbers are for EACH ZERGLING.
People assume hydras are the dps dealers.
Think of 4 lings vs 1 hydra. Lings get more dps. By far with this upgrade.
Problem though... 3/3/3 zlots, forcefields, tanks, colossus.......
wait... so basically protoss.... stupid op protoss, lol
But I agree, after watching Idra not use it in his matches, I will always remember to vs terran.
I never seem to get that far though... 3/3 lings with adrenal beat 3/3/3 charge zealots in any choke, and annihilate them with a surround. actually in a unit tester i found just now that 1 zel will defeat 4 lings (both sides fully upgraded) where only 2 lings can attack at a time. they do well with a surround but not annihilation by any means..16 lings fully surround 4 zealots for the entire duration of the fight and theres 7 lings left at the end.
supply cap vs supply cap wins in a straight wall fight without a surround
Edit: I was wrong, 3/3/3 zeals do infact beat lings in a choke.
Without the shield upgrades however, 3/3 adrenal gland lings WILL win WITHOUT a surround
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I always get the glands when I get my +3 +3. I'm usually at 3-4-5 bases by then so it seems pretty stupid not to spend 200/200 to improve my mineral dump. Especially since you're often pretty close to supply max and have high income at that time. Also I tend to forget ol speed and burrow so I have already saved that money ;-)
The few lings that actually connect with the stimmed marines have to deal some dps while they evaporate...
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Yeah, I consider it like a "melee upgrade level 4" for zerglings. If you can afford to get it, and you're going to use zerglings, then you ought to get it. It's usually as simple as that.
Sometimes, you can't afford to get it. What I saw again and again during the last MLG cast was IdrA with 70 gas, having just remaxed mostly on non-zergling units, and Day9 or somebody would say "jeez why isn't he getting adrenal glands?" It's a good upgrade but it's not a staple, and 200 gas isn't cheap if you're down to the wire fighting someone like Bomber who never runs out of units.
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It is easily worth the like 200-200.. I really don't know why people don't always get it.
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I don't think they refuse to get it. I think that they just forget a lot. When you get your hive, there is a lot of gas you have to allocate (+3 upgrades, greater spire or ultra cavern, etc) and I think the adrenal glands often just slips their mind.
It's a good upgrade, and at that point in the game you're often floating 500 - 1000 resources, so it really should always be researched.
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Expensive but worth it.... Generally if zerg can get Glands they probably have broodlords where glands are irrelevent...
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Even though the glands make your zerglings better, I still fail to for see a late game situation which requires lings. Planetaries with building armor still don't die to lings and you aren't touching that Terran ball without Hive tech units, in which case lings are pure fodder.
Lings just don't get close enough to the opponent unless the game has turned into a scrappy bio vs ling infestor, with Terran furiously trying to kill expos (like Idra Bomber shak and Idra Puma taldarim)
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There are arguments for how quickly lings die vs deathballs and such by that stage of the game, but honestly I think people just forget about it lol. No doubt it's a really good upgrade.
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Gas, gas gas gas and more gas.
Sometimes, its all the pros think about at that high level and that is why you see later upgrades, banes only when they have to and so on so forth. Ever wondered why baneling speed is left by some pros? Some say they forgot it, but in reality they needed all that gas into units. Its like saying, why dont pros get +3 muta attack, it increases their effic............... it does! yes, but the gas is too critical that the pros just cant spend it at that point in time, even for a critical upgrade like adrenal glands. In most situations, 2 more broods would be much more beneficial
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United Kingdom20294 Posts
On October 22 2011 16:58 firehand101 wrote:
Gas, gas gas gas and more gas.
Sometimes, its all the pros think about at that high level and that is why you see later upgrades, banes only when they have to and so on so forth. Ever wondered why baneling speed is left by some pros? Some say they forgot it, but in reality they needed all that gas into units. Its like saying, why dont pros get +3 muta attack, it increases their effic............... it does! yes, but the gas is too critical that the pros just cant spend it at that point in time, even for a critical upgrade like adrenal glands. In most situations, 2 more broods would be much more beneficial
We see pro's almost everyday fighting with 100+ lings without adrenal when hive was done 10 minutes ago and they are floating 5k/3k etc
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EPT
