EPTMaybe I'm just good with not standard situations I don't know, but somehow I always see this as a free win for me as zerg.
PvZ simple cheese with ~80% w/r in high masters - Page 5
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Wortie
Netherlands212 Posts
Maybe I'm just good with not standard situations I don't know, but somehow I always see this as a free win for me as zerg. | ||
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-iNko
Lithuania160 Posts
On September 15 2011 00:33 McGuire72 wrote: The only thing you "came up with" was a false sense of accomplishment for yourself lol. People have been doing this forever. You are not special. what? i told ya, i didnt look this up anywhere lmfao, i know there was like a 2pylon block very long time ago or smth like that. And i never see anything like this anywhere nowadays (replays streams ladder etc) so i posted it here and now im getting bashed by the likes of u. LOL | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On September 14 2011 23:13 rokbe wrote: I think nydus is not a good option. For the price of the worm you can get +1, speed and burrow. Or overlord speed + drops, which gets you the same effect as nydus (sneak into his main) without the random chance of getting denied. I tend to build my second hatch in my main (saw idra do this vs tester in beta) and go straight for a hydra-ling drop (does quite well against anything that isn't colossi, and they're delaying their own tech. Pretty cost-efficient unit-wise too.) Building a second hatch anyway is REALLY DAMN IMPORTANT though. That way, though your econ may be hit a bit, your production isn't. You don't have a chance in hell without that extra larva. It's not a guaranteed win response, but it's good enough that I take wins off the cheeser at least often enough that I don't rage. I tend to poke the ramp with a spine while lair is morphing, too. Haven't had this done to me in over a month - but my rough order in which I get things (i tend to wing it..) Gas Pool (these two are standard, and probably already chosen by the time I see cannon contain) Queen + Hatch-in-base + Speed Gas + Tumor Lair + Second queen - start massing lings Overlord Drops right when lair is done Hydralisk den + ovie speed As ovie speed/drops is finishing up, estimate how much gas I'll have to dump into hydra (it's like 8-10, save that many larva and make the rest into lings. Dump all minerals into lings. Go drop his base. There's like a chance that the cannon rusher is playing really greedy and only has a handful of gateway units out (your spine crawler kills that wall REALLY slowly) I've thought of delaying the first queen in favor of an earlier hatch in base, and more importantly, earlier lair for a more aggressive timing, but I should probably refine that before attempting it. Either way, this build burns gas like whoa. Could delay the ling speed, too - not like your lings are going anywhere anyway. | ||
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TheSambassador
United States186 Posts
Yes, obviously the best way to deal with it as Zerg is to prevent it from happening with a patrolling drone. However, if it DOES happen, it seems pretty easy to beat it by: Plopping down a creep tumor and a spine crawler. Push creep to your ramp while you pump infinity drones. Plop down the spine and watch it get free pylon kills, which your protoss player will probably have to replace at home eventually. In the meantime, get Lair tech and an evo chamber. You can also grab a roach warren too, but I tend to really like just plain ol' Hydra Ling. If they expanded in the meantime, a Nydus OUTSIDE of their natural just kills them 99% of the time. I like also getting extra queens and push creep from the Nydus as well. You can also use the Nydus to expand to other locations. You're GOING to be ahead on one base for awhile. Unless he also expands right away and pumps only probes, you are just plain better off. I don't understand why zergs are so afraid of this strat. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
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mage36
415 Posts
On September 15 2011 00:59 iNkopwnz wrote: what? i told ya, i didnt look this up anywhere lmfao, i know there was like a 2pylon block very long time ago or smth like that. And i never see anything like this anywhere nowadays (replays streams ladder etc) so i posted it here and now im getting bashed by the likes of u. LOL Not questioning you that you came up with this yourself without knowledge that this existed, but, with all due respect, if you knew about the 2 then I guess that's where you got the idea of it though... The only reason the 2 pylon block doesn't exist anymore is that they changed the ramp so that you now need 3 pylons to block it. Besides, I was able to learn how to counter the drone drill with this strat, which is fairly new so it's not like this thread didn't add anything to the past posts. take it easy, fella. I was actually trying to learn how zergs may counter this so I can prepare for those next time I do this strat. | ||
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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durr
United States148 Posts
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
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mage36
415 Posts
On September 15 2011 01:05 justiceknight wrote: I die to nydus when doing this build all the time,how do i do perfectly? any replays? Sorry that I don't have a replay but just keep a lookout around your main. The moment you see a nydus starting, send 8 or more probes to attack it or zealots (which you will probably have). Even if it pops out, focus on the nydus as it will probably be low on health and he'll only get a few units out. There isn't really a reason to play greedy when you're in this situation. The best is to play safe because of your huge lead anyway. If you have a stargate, use a phx or vr to kill overlords around and the nydus threat is gone (except for the front of your base attack) so reinforce your front from then. but generally the zerg will try to bypass the front first. On September 15 2011 01:08 solidbebe wrote: Don't be a foolish toss and expand, just 4gate. There is no way the zerg can hold that off ever. And when you expand you actually give the zerg a chance to come back. Sure there is. He just makes spines at his ramp. He can hold off any 4-gate forever as spines are insanely effective against gateway units, especially when he has the ramp advantage. Then you just lost any advantage you hope to have because you didn't expand while he's probably using his gas to make mutas and kill your probes while your units are all the way at his base. On September 15 2011 01:02 TheSambassador wrote: I don't really get this. I know there's this idea that you "have to" be on more bases than your opponent as Zerg, but if they've cut probes and wasted 300 minerals + 150 minerals on pylons+cannons, what's so bad about staying on one base for a bit? Yes, you'll be ahead for a while but by the time you execute the nydus worm and punish them, you're already behind because of the expo. Any toss that plays safe and not too greedy will be able to hold off your push at the front. Edit: the general idea for this build (at least for me) is to expand, I think. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
Patrol drone at ramp. Bring second drone to constantly attack probe while still patrolling. If anything goes down, pull drones and mineral trick or get surround before 3 pylons are down. This is auto win against blind 15 hatch, idk why any Zerg in masters+ would ever do that... | ||
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
It gives you fast games. You win a lot as this cheese is strong. You dont get: Better at the game. The oposit, you get bad at that specific matchup and once the game develops better you will fall behind. | ||
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ThE_OsToJiY
Canada1167 Posts
Banelings -- Fairly quick way of breaking it as you can bust down 3 pylons with just 5 of them and if there is only 1-2 cannons the wall will die. Comes very fast if you go like 14gas14pool. Roaches -- Depending on the map/positions they can hit the pylons from the highground. If there is 1 pylon they can snipe it. I think the best part about countering it with roaches is that you can counterattack and if they went FE can sometimes get a freewin. Mutas -- Fairly risky as it will have to be 1base and very low economy. You must kill a lot of workers with them, they are good only because your opponent usually won't expect them. Nydus -- Probably the best counter that doesn't bust it right away. You can try to do it in their base or outside their natural. In their base is risky as most good protosses will be expecting it there after a cannon rush. If you can overrun their natural with a proxy nydus you will be in a good spot. Spines -- Good in combination with one of the above lair tech builds... Drone drill -- Never tried it, could work i guess. 1base ultralisk -- Very bad counter to this, too much gas investment off 1 base and no guarantee you will break out of your natural. Comes out at around 9 minutes. | ||
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eatmybunnies
United States90 Posts
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
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darklight54321
United States361 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
Also, this only works for ladder, not for any tournament or cw, aka, serious matches. Just my opinion. | ||
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McGuire72
Canada140 Posts
On September 15 2011 00:59 iNkopwnz wrote: what? i told ya, i didnt look this up anywhere lmfao, i know there was like a 2pylon block very long time ago or smth like that. And i never see anything like this anywhere nowadays (replays streams ladder etc) so i posted it here and now im getting bashed by the likes of u. LOL Yes, I understand you don't watch or play enough SC2 to understand that this is an old, old tactic that has been in use forever. That said, you still didn't "come up with it" even if you think you did. Ignorance is not actually bliss. Go watch Idra vs MC from a couple MLGs ago. MC pylon blocks Idra on Tal'Darim and Idra insta-ggs (this was the "epic" set where MC came back from down 2-0 to beat Idra in a BO7). Or just watch literally any pro Zerg stream and you'll see them patrolling a drone or chasing the probe with drones to prevent this. The only reason you don't see it on many pro streams is because only dumb Zergs let this happen (aka not the pros). | ||
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BroboCop
United States373 Posts
-drone patrol -12pool-8pool will come out ahead economically -9 scout like mentioned above and ninja hatch -15pool 15gas (the queen finishes right as you get 100 gas usually intended for speed, ie morph lair first and u will have lair done @ 5min~) at this point, drone till 20, take your 2nd gas get a roach warren + speed make 5~ roaches and rest speedlings, your nydus will be up before they have pylons around their base. pull 2 off each gas after you have all required gas. -mutalisk are possible i suppose, however, i've never tried. -never tried ol drop, however, if it were a close-by-air scenario(meta,shak horiz,shat,etc), that is what I would do. | ||
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