On one level i'm glad you provided them. On another one, i am doubting the relevance of these replays as you knew EXACTLY what he was doing. How he was going to do it and when it was going to come to your base as i figure these are laddergames(blue & red color)
But still, it is a way to beat it and the proper response.
with the immortals becomming so popular i see a return of 2 port banshees coming up. (second port proxied so they think its a 1/1/1). And with the early ghosts, i used immortals heavily some time ago. If you got their marauders down before they got your immortals down there is no problem. End the shields aren't really important against bio. It was more the range advantage on the marauders (shields were down when the immortal was in marauder range and you could use marines as a wall simply) mini amounts of Ghosts were a problem if your army was clumped up though x3 and they hit all your sentrys with (was pre emp super nerf x3) But if you have that guardian shield up marines are no problem. They do no damage to immortals. But ghosts do make it easier (don't have to snipe shields with the marines and the marauders work on the hull while marines fight the rest of the army)
Anyway seeing a early forge with me playing bio i go +1 attack or raven banshee to snipe the sentrys pre battle. Now the stargate for phoenix is missing for mule/wallin/banshee/raven sniping and i might encounter my old pvt builds . No need for forcefields if you can lift the opponent to prevent kiting
On September 12 2011 04:26 Cyro wrote: Lol, and nobody took me seriously when i talked about using immortals as the core of a PvT army a few weeks back... Nice build, thanks a ton
To be fair, there's a big difference between Immortals being the core of a PvT army and Immortals being the core of an all-in designed to hit a timing.
Amazing build. Only lost 1 game so far on ladder and its because i let the 1/1/1 get sieged up before moving in, PDD's killed me. Otherwise solid. I'd love to try out some transitions out of this, make it a bit less all-in. But otherwise its good for me
why forge so early? I think you hold marine/scv allin by chronoing your gate, delaying robo, and pulling probes. you only need forge in time for (a) cloak banshee, and (b) +armor in time for the attack to hit. for either of these you only need to put down the forge at ~6m (forge finishes at 6:45, unchronoed +1 would finish at 8:25 which is in time to defend 111). you can forge after 2-3 gates + robo and still have all this work out.
the other thing is, I don't know why you build 30 probes? I'd stop at 24 or 26 or something if you're going for this kind of timing
On September 12 2011 05:38 palanq wrote: why forge so early? I think you hold marine/scv allin by chronoing your gate, delaying robo, and pulling probes. you only need forge in time for (a) cloak banshee, and (b) +armor in time for the attack to hit. for either of these you only need to put down the forge at ~6m (forge finishes at 6:45, unchronoed +1 would finish at 8:25 which is in time to defend 111). you can forge after 2-3 gates + robo and still have all this work out.
the other thing is, I don't know why you build 30 probes? I'd stop at 24 or 26 or something if you're going for this kind of timing
1. without cannon you can't stop marine scv all in or 2rax all in with a single gate.
2. need 30 probes to support constant immortal + 4-5 gateway production. 6 are dedicated to gas
Just tried this build for the first time, executed it pretty badly but still won (Masters). The T did 3 racks expand, I had 4 immortals upon attacking and his 2 ghosts EMPed my whole army. Still won the battle then contained him and eventually pushed up his ramp for an easy win.
On September 12 2011 05:38 palanq wrote: why forge so early? I think you hold marine/scv allin by chronoing your gate, delaying robo, and pulling probes. you only need forge in time for (a) cloak banshee, and (b) +armor in time for the attack to hit. for either of these you only need to put down the forge at ~6m (forge finishes at 6:45, unchronoed +1 would finish at 8:25 which is in time to defend 111). you can forge after 2-3 gates + robo and still have all this work out.
the other thing is, I don't know why you build 30 probes? I'd stop at 24 or 26 or something if you're going for this kind of timing
1. without cannon you can't stop marine scv all in or 2rax all in with a single gate.
2. need 30 probes to support constant immortal + 4-5 gateway production. 6 are dedicated to gas
my point was that you can hold without cannon if you deviate appropriately without blindly putting down the forge
as for cutting probes earlier you can hit a stronger timing this way with almost as many units.
you can't even support 5 gates + immortal + pylons for supply off 30 probes, the extra gates are only for proxy warpin after you stop immortals
On September 12 2011 04:13 prOpSaiton wrote: On one level i'm glad you provided them. On another one, i am doubting the relevance of these replays as you knew EXACTLY what he was doing. How he was going to do it and when it was going to come to your base as i figure these are laddergames(blue & red color)
But still, it is a way to beat it and the proper response.
that's true, but this build is easily scoutable when you realize protoss hasn't taken an expansion at the 9 minute mark and when they get a forge extremely fast. i actually struggled a lot vs this build when i tried to hold it with conventional mm + bunkers (i think i lost every game) so i'm just trying to show my fellow terrans a good way to counter it ^^
I know this is a bit off topic, but I have a question for Hister: did you name yourself after the Hister in the Nostradomus predictions, who apparently stands for Hitler?
people are not getting how a 2 port, raven, banshees (cloakshee if u must), and marines crush this build. the more immortals u make the more the 2 port will LOL
I just tryed this build out on ladder, it is really really Strong vs FEing Terran, holy shit. My push was delayed by a small supply block but it still just destroyed everything T had. Great Post, Great build.
On September 12 2011 07:50 kwan84 wrote: people are not getting how a 2 port, raven, banshees (cloakshee if u must), and marines crush this build. the more immortals u make the more the 2 port will LOL
but then, he could also scout your 2 ports and not push, instead get phoenix to LOL all over your army (assuming he gets an observer to scout you). I am glad you understand how to react to immortals tho
EPT
. No need for forcefields if you can lift the opponent to prevent kiting
![[image loading]](http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9926299.jpg)
