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On September 12 2011 23:00 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 22:58 Vathus wrote:On September 12 2011 17:30 sleepingdog wrote:Somewhat ironic that immortals seemingly become popular again....BEFORE the range-buff. Throughout the last year I've seen quite a lot immortal/zealot/sentry all-ins, yet this is the most disgusting one (in a good way  ) as it comes so late but has enough immortals to literally one-shot defensive structures. The next obvious step would be to re-design the build to allow for a quick expansion while forcing terrans into an absurd amount of defense. Which is what Kiwikaki has been doing, IIRC (there are few reps of him out there atm). The only thing I really don't like: 5 gateways. There is mathematical proof that 5 gateways are not needed for efficient, constant production. The only build where you want to have 5 gates is the 5 gate sentry/zealot all-in as it absolutely relies on the initial "swell" of units after warpgate-tech is finished. But with this build (and all other all-ins that work together with robo and/or stargate) you will be completely fine with 4 gates. You can actually do Kiwikakis 2 gate robo/sentry/immortal opening and hit basically the same timing. Your attack comes about 1 min later with the same army and upgrades but you also have your expo, more probes, and you can get more gateways. Do you have any links to VODs of this or anything like that? Sounds interesting.
I can upload some replays tonight.
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I have been using this build (low masters) and it seems to just roll over most fe's.
You really only need 3 gates with the 4th one finishing right as your last immortal coming out, and just reinforce the attack with pure gateway units.
4 armor zealots/immortals are scary >.<
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It seems like a bad idea to transition to Archons, as your whole midgame army will end up incredibly vulnerable to any Ghost timings. In fact it's probably smart to go Colossus every time because the logical counter to this build is to delay floating the expansion and get Ghosts and Medivacs. I think that is the best way to play TvP currently anyway and Immortal all-ins always were pretty good at punishing quirky Terran builds and fast expansions. This will definitely discourage people from 1/1/1ing every game, but I don't think Terrans have much to fear if they just play standard.
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Vatican City State334 Posts
I think this build will be great until Terrans catch on. My worry is if Terran is thinking of a 1-1-1 but turtles hard in response to seeing this and goes for 2 port banshees.. then does some super all in with about 10 of them. Gonna abuse it while I can though.
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On September 12 2011 22:58 Vathus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 17:30 sleepingdog wrote:Somewhat ironic that immortals seemingly become popular again....BEFORE the range-buff. Throughout the last year I've seen quite a lot immortal/zealot/sentry all-ins, yet this is the most disgusting one (in a good way ) as it comes so late but has enough immortals to literally one-shot defensive structures. The next obvious step would be to re-design the build to allow for a quick expansion while forcing terrans into an absurd amount of defense. Which is what Kiwikaki has been doing, IIRC (there are few reps of him out there atm). The only thing I really don't like: 5 gateways. There is mathematical proof that 5 gateways are not needed for efficient, constant production. The only build where you want to have 5 gates is the 5 gate sentry/zealot all-in as it absolutely relies on the initial "swell" of units after warpgate-tech is finished. But with this build (and all other all-ins that work together with robo and/or stargate) you will be completely fine with 4 gates. You can actually do Kiwikakis 2 gate robo sentry/immortal opening and hit basically the same timing. Your attack comes about 1 min later with the same army and upgrades but you also have your expo, more probes, and you can reinforce with a higher gateway count.
Kiwikaki's 2 gate robo has his forge and robo bay go up at the same time before the 3rd gate, so the +1 armor/wep is delayed for a MUCH longer time than histers. Also he throws his 3rd and 4th gate after the expo. His build is more geared towards a two base timing with a bunch of stalkers/colossus and +1 wep as well as thermal lance.
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On September 13 2011 03:33 Ea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 22:58 Vathus wrote:On September 12 2011 17:30 sleepingdog wrote:Somewhat ironic that immortals seemingly become popular again....BEFORE the range-buff. Throughout the last year I've seen quite a lot immortal/zealot/sentry all-ins, yet this is the most disgusting one (in a good way ) as it comes so late but has enough immortals to literally one-shot defensive structures. The next obvious step would be to re-design the build to allow for a quick expansion while forcing terrans into an absurd amount of defense. Which is what Kiwikaki has been doing, IIRC (there are few reps of him out there atm). The only thing I really don't like: 5 gateways. There is mathematical proof that 5 gateways are not needed for efficient, constant production. The only build where you want to have 5 gates is the 5 gate sentry/zealot all-in as it absolutely relies on the initial "swell" of units after warpgate-tech is finished. But with this build (and all other all-ins that work together with robo and/or stargate) you will be completely fine with 4 gates. You can actually do Kiwikakis 2 gate robo sentry/immortal opening and hit basically the same timing. Your attack comes about 1 min later with the same army and upgrades but you also have your expo, more probes, and you can reinforce with a higher gateway count. Kiwikaki's 2 gate robo has his forge and robo bay go up at the same time before the 3rd gate, so the +1 armor/wep is delayed for a MUCH longer time than histers. Also he throws his 3rd and 4th gate after the expo. His build is more geared towards a two base timing with a bunch of stalkers/colossus and +1 wep as well as thermal lance.
I was just referring to more his opening style with the fast immortals and then using sentries and immortals to defend after he expands or really any 2 gate robo expand can work as well. After I expand I continue to warp in sentries and produce immortals and I add a forge as the 2nd immortal is building and then later add on gateways.
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I've found a way to make this push even stronger.
HALLUCINATION!
since you can get so many sentries, hallucinating archons with this completely roflstomps terrans.
I get it sometime after my +1.
I also use a modified build that naniwa used in that vs strelok on xel naga. I think it's a better BO, i'll post it if anyone wants it.
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On September 13 2011 03:19 AnalThermometer wrote:
I think this build will be great until Terrans catch on. My worry is if Terran is thinking of a 1-1-1 but turtles hard in response to seeing this and goes for 2 port banshees.. then does some super all in with about 10 of them. Gonna abuse it while I can though.
If so, the terran simply outplayed you? If you catch onto his switch, you can yourself switch to producing stalkers/sentries, you do after all have 5 gateways.
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Halu archons might be a bit too much tech for this timing, it'll seem pretty obv. I'd hallu stalkers + 1 collosus since it fits tech path.
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What dictates your timing to start warpgate?
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This build is very fun ty, new go to allin close positions pvt. Drank a few terran tears today.
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On September 13 2011 06:07 paintfive wrote:
I've found a way to make this push even stronger.
HALLUCINATION!
since you can get so many sentries, hallucinating archons with this completely roflstomps terrans.
I get it sometime after my +1.
I also use a modified build that naniwa used in that vs strelok on xel naga. I think it's a better BO, i'll post it if anyone wants it.
please do.
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why do you start warpgate tech so late instead of right away?
and when do you stop probe production?
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On September 13 2011 07:37 da_head wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 06:07 paintfive wrote:
I've found a way to make this push even stronger.
HALLUCINATION!
since you can get so many sentries, hallucinating archons with this completely roflstomps terrans.
I get it sometime after my +1.
I also use a modified build that naniwa used in that vs strelok on xel naga. I think it's a better BO, i'll post it if anyone wants it. please do.
seconded. would love to see this
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yeah the build needs some refinement that's for sure.
-when to scout/what to look for?
-when to start warpgate (immediately after robo IMO)
-should you make an observer? only in certain (which?) situations? When to make it?
-how many probes?
-when to start +1 armor/should we get +1 attack?
-do we really need 5 gates? Are we stopping immortal production at some point?
-this build frequently floats some mins/gas until the gates are up, is there a way to smooth things out or is it ok?
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I've only gone though 1 of the reps so far and your mechanics aren't that good but still...
did you just make immortals good pvt?
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Wow, I have been stomping Terrans with this build in high diamond even with my sometimes poor execution. Thanks for the great build. This absolutely crushes any fast expand and makes bunkers a joke.
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I wonder if this could be adapted for PvZ?
Immortals own roaches and spines and zealot/sentry with + 1 would own lings. You could probably hit before mutas/infestors so fast hydra's would be your only fear.
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On September 13 2011 10:15 tarath wrote:
I wonder if this could be adapted for PvZ?
Immortals own roaches and spines and zealot/sentry with + 1 would own lings. You could probably hit before mutas/infestors so fast hydra's would be your only fear.
Cough cough banelings.
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On September 13 2011 10:25 TolEranceNA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:15 tarath wrote:
I wonder if this could be adapted for PvZ?
Immortals own roaches and spines and zealot/sentry with + 1 would own lings. You could probably hit before mutas/infestors so fast hydra's would be your only fear. Cough cough banelings.
banelings only do 10 to immortals, and you would have more than enough ffs..
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EPT
