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On September 13 2011 09:12 Thugtronik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 07:37 da_head wrote:On September 13 2011 06:07 paintfive wrote:
I've found a way to make this push even stronger.
HALLUCINATION!
since you can get so many sentries, hallucinating archons with this completely roflstomps terrans.
I get it sometime after my +1.
I also use a modified build that naniwa used in that vs strelok on xel naga. I think it's a better BO, i'll post it if anyone wants it. please do. seconded. would love to see this
BO is (not optomized fully)
12 Gate
14 Gas
18 Gas
20 Stalker - chrono
26 Sentry - chrono
naniwa starts pulling probes out of gas 1 by 1 at this point to make an expansion, since this in all-in i just use those minerals for more gates / faster robo
26 Robo
26 Gate
28 Sentry - chrono
Add more Gateways here as you wish.
Warpgates finish around 6:00 to 6:30, depending on how many chronos you spend on it. As you transform the Gateways to Warpgates, chrono them and warp in more units.
Since a Forge and +1 takes 3 minutes, build them in advance to match the timing you'd like to hit at. I personally don't bother choroning the Core at all.
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On September 13 2011 10:26 da_head wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:25 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 13 2011 10:15 tarath wrote:
I wonder if this could be adapted for PvZ?
Immortals own roaches and spines and zealot/sentry with + 1 would own lings. You could probably hit before mutas/infestors so fast hydra's would be your only fear. Cough cough banelings. banelings only do 10 to immortals, and you would have more than enough ffs..
Just tried it twice and won twice, 2nd opponent even build 4 spines and I pushed up into them on shakuras.
And since I'm just learning the build my execution is horrible. So, I think there is definitely hope for it.
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Banes take out the zeals/sentries, speedlings clean up the immortals. I think the zerg would really have to be incompetent to not be able to stop this push...
I think this build at the moment can chalk up a lot of its success to the shock factor as its so new. It seems very strong vs T, but I believe there are many options zerg could use to stop it. Mutas off 2 base would also do wonderfully for example.
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On September 13 2011 10:26 da_head wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:25 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 13 2011 10:15 tarath wrote:
I wonder if this could be adapted for PvZ?
Immortals own roaches and spines and zealot/sentry with + 1 would own lings. You could probably hit before mutas/infestors so fast hydra's would be your only fear. Cough cough banelings. banelings only do 10 to immortals, and you would have more than enough ffs..
Then according to your theorycraft, lings and banelings and go around the FFs and banes kill Sentries and Zealot and lings kill Immortal. Of course i won't have perfect surround nor will you have perfect forcefield, all i am saying is that he forgot a unit call baneling, thats simply it.
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On September 13 2011 10:30 paintfive wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 09:12 Thugtronik wrote:On September 13 2011 07:37 da_head wrote:On September 13 2011 06:07 paintfive wrote:
I've found a way to make this push even stronger.
HALLUCINATION!
since you can get so many sentries, hallucinating archons with this completely roflstomps terrans.
I get it sometime after my +1.
I also use a modified build that naniwa used in that vs strelok on xel naga. I think it's a better BO, i'll post it if anyone wants it. please do. seconded. would love to see this BO is (not optomized fully) 12 Gate 14 Gas 18 Gas 20 Stalker - chrono 26 Sentry - chrono naniwa starts pulling probes out of gas 1 by 1 at this point to make an expansion, since this in all-in i just use those minerals for more gates / faster robo 26 Robo 26 Gate 28 Sentry - chrono Add more Gateways here as you wish. Warpgates finish around 6:00 to 6:30, depending on how many chronos you spend on it. As you transform the Gateways to Warpgates, chrono them and warp in more units. Since a Forge and +1 takes 3 minutes, build them in advance to match the timing you'd like to hit at. I personally don't bother choroning the Core at all.
where is the forge in this BO?
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On September 13 2011 11:04 TolEranceNA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:26 da_head wrote:On September 13 2011 10:25 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 13 2011 10:15 tarath wrote:
I wonder if this could be adapted for PvZ?
Immortals own roaches and spines and zealot/sentry with + 1 would own lings. You could probably hit before mutas/infestors so fast hydra's would be your only fear. Cough cough banelings. banelings only do 10 to immortals, and you would have more than enough ffs.. Then according to your theorycraft, lings and banelings and go around the FFs and banes kill Sentries and Zealot and lings kill Immortal. Of course i won't have perfect surround nor will you have perfect forcefield, all i am saying is that he forgot a unit call baneling, thats simply it.
Yeah I definitely forgot about banelings.
In general I think the following:
1) this is a good counter to the 1-1-1, but has to be done blind to a large extent
2) it is a great way to get easy wins right now
3) terran (and zerg) will have no trouble finding a variety of counters very quickly, at least as the build is now.
4) given that this all-in is so strong now, it is exciting to think about the potential of the range 6 immortal.
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Someones doing this against me with an expansion. Seems like it turns 2 rax FE on its head.
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This seems to rip through marine-tank, but I'm having some difficulties when Terran goes for a 1-1-1 with a lot of banshees. Especially with cloak. I had a game today where I beat the ground army completely but was left with 4 cloaked banshees ripping apart my base as I killed Terran's main and he floated all his buildings away.
How have you been dealing with base trade scenarios or lots of banshees when doing this?
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On September 13 2011 11:49 GomJabbar wrote:
This seems to rip through marine-tank, but I'm having some difficulties when Terran goes for a 1-1-1 with a lot of banshees. Especially with cloak. I had a game today where I beat the ground army completely but was left with 4 cloaked banshees ripping apart my base as I killed Terran's main and he floated all his buildings away.
How have you been dealing with base trade scenarios or lots of banshees when doing this?
when you scout he has committed hard to banshees start building stalkers and cannons.
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On September 13 2011 10:39 tarath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:26 da_head wrote:On September 13 2011 10:25 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 13 2011 10:15 tarath wrote:
I wonder if this could be adapted for PvZ?
Immortals own roaches and spines and zealot/sentry with + 1 would own lings. You could probably hit before mutas/infestors so fast hydra's would be your only fear. Cough cough banelings. banelings only do 10 to immortals, and you would have more than enough ffs.. Just tried it twice and won twice, 2nd opponent even build 4 spines and I pushed up into them on shakuras. And since I'm just learning the build my execution is horrible. So, I think there is definitely hope for it.
i've tried zlot/sentry/immortal/+1 many times vs z and it generally isn't good. You may be surprised to learn that pure sling wins handily, banes are nice, and if he reaches hydras or mutas or +1(armor or ling attack) or infestors, you are done. Really all you beat is roaches, roach/ling, and spine-heavy defenses.
IMO you won vs the guy who made spines BECAUSE he made spines, which are more or less useless vs immortals.
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On September 13 2011 11:06 Rorschach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:30 paintfive wrote:On September 13 2011 09:12 Thugtronik wrote:On September 13 2011 07:37 da_head wrote:On September 13 2011 06:07 paintfive wrote:
I've found a way to make this push even stronger.
HALLUCINATION!
since you can get so many sentries, hallucinating archons with this completely roflstomps terrans.
I get it sometime after my +1.
I also use a modified build that naniwa used in that vs strelok on xel naga. I think it's a better BO, i'll post it if anyone wants it. please do. seconded. would love to see this BO is (not optomized fully) 12 Gate 14 Gas 18 Gas 20 Stalker - chrono 26 Sentry - chrono naniwa starts pulling probes out of gas 1 by 1 at this point to make an expansion, since this in all-in i just use those minerals for more gates / faster robo 26 Robo 26 Gate 28 Sentry - chrono Add more Gateways here as you wish. Warpgates finish around 6:00 to 6:30, depending on how many chronos you spend on it. As you transform the Gateways to Warpgates, chrono them and warp in more units. Since a Forge and +1 takes 3 minutes, build them in advance to match the timing you'd like to hit at. I personally don't bother choroning the Core at all. where is the forge in this BO?
I find it that a forge and cannon so early is usually unnecessary and opt for more units and gateways.
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i think the early forge is to allow you to not die vs fast rine/scv allins
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all terran players struggling with this, check out my reps on page 3. as long as you scout this build you shouldn't lose to it =)
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I think from the terran perspective, medivacs are bad here. Can't outheal immortal DPS vs marauders and rines are low enough HP that they die in 1-2 volleys anyways (depending what units are hitting). Bunkers bad for the same reason, they just die too fast to be repaired and don't dish any DPS + are immobile.
So IMO take less gas, use what you have for upgrades and maybe fast ghosts instead of factory/starport/medivacs.
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On September 11 2011 23:59 PooLarX wrote:
@Nibbler89
You cannot fault people for trying to win ladder games, sure personally I hate the fact that a lot of people pick up on these gimmicky builds and than just exploit the shit out of them but that is just the nature of this game and the community
As a general rule, your argument is supposed to come to a conclusion to make your point and/or refute the other person in the debate. You tend not to want to make grand, sweeping, absurd claims without any reasoning behind them, such as the opening of this message. Last I checked, it's not an apriori truth that you can't fault people for purposefully pathetic on the internet in order to win. Moreso when they're in the casual level leagues anyhow.
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Choya is trying this build atm vs Terrans on his stream if anyone wants to see it in action.
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Hmm.. Is there anywhere you can fit a Observer in here?
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On September 13 2011 13:22 Lochat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 23:59 PooLarX wrote:
@Nibbler89
You cannot fault people for trying to win ladder games, sure personally I hate the fact that a lot of people pick up on these gimmicky builds and than just exploit the shit out of them but that is just the nature of this game and the community
As a general rule, your argument is supposed to come to a conclusion to make your point and/or refute the other person in the debate. You tend not to want to make grand, sweeping, absurd claims without any reasoning behind them, such as the opening of this message. Last I checked, it's not an apriori truth that you can't fault people for purposefully pathetic on the internet in order to win. Moreso when they're in the casual level leagues anyhow.
Yes, god forbid casual players take the game casually and do strategies they enjoy doing.
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EPT
