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On September 13 2011 13:22 Lochat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 23:59 PooLarX wrote:
@Nibbler89
You cannot fault people for trying to win ladder games, sure personally I hate the fact that a lot of people pick up on these gimmicky builds and than just exploit the shit out of them but that is just the nature of this game and the community
As a general rule, your argument is supposed to come to a conclusion to make your point and/or refute the other person in the debate. You tend not to want to make grand, sweeping, absurd claims without any reasoning behind them, such as the opening of this message. Last I checked, it's not an apriori truth that you can't fault people for purposefully pathetic on the internet in order to win. Moreso when they're in the casual level leagues anyhow.
Did you even read what you said before you posted it, or did you just try cram as much shit and as many big words into the sentence as you could to try and sound smart? Your post makes no sense. Also, as the guy above me said, god forbid people play to win...
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On September 12 2011 02:14 proxima_ wrote:hey i'm scproxima from the antiga replay, i figured out an easy way to counter this build on my alt account here are 3 replays of me beating this build with fast +1, a lot of marines and ghosts (apparently M+M with 5 bunkers doesn't work =.=) http://drop.sc/33777http://drop.sc/33776http://drop.sc/33775
Though this seems like a pretty interesting build considering the current metagame, the counter that Proxima has figured out seems to be pretty solid. Once Terrans catch on this build will probably die out.
Looking to see if I can find some replays of Kiwikaki's 2 base version of this. Being able to do something similar and taken an expansion seems fantastic.
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if this catches on to the point that it is recognizable, its pretty easily countered. you cant deny the terran from scouting that you are on one base, and a scan is justified in that situation to prepare for whatever 1 base craziness the toss is planning. if the terran is on one base when he scouts, you guys play an awkward standoff that benefits the terran because of mule super saturation and the inevitable floating cc. if he is on 2 i think the correct response is to retreat to natural and bunker the hell out of the ramp while tryin to get a couple ghosts out. a 1-1-1 should be able to scout multiple immortals coming with banshee harass and just not attack until ghosts. either way, cool build. insane seeing a full wall with 5 bunkers going down in a matter of seconds.
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I think its a interesting build to have at your disposal. But as proxima displayed you cant just go this build everytime when your enemy knows exactly what your doing. I dislike the opening with forge as it really gives the build away. Also i have been testing and the build comes too late for a 1 base all in. If your going to attack so late you could get a expansion with a few probes with the same units but without +1.
at 9:50 i was outside his base with
4 immortal (double robo after expo to get 4 out quick enouth to hit before 10:00)
9 zealot
1 stalker
4 sentry
35 probe
2 base
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Looks good, so you push when you have those sweet 5 Immortals out?
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How do you deal with Banshees? Are the sentries good enough to deal with those?
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Banshee isn't really the best argument. Yeah it hardcounters the build, but but that many banshees isn't that common. And when you scout it you can simply warp in stalkers. And you already have the Robo for OBs
The real issue of this build are ghost timings with MM. Which are standard play for TvP and utterly destroy this style. Unless of course you play on the lower levels where people miss their EMPs.
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I really, really like this build. I wonder, though, if it could be worked into more of an opener than an all-in. The style of 1 gateway, 1 robo, and the early forge is a lot of fun, and feels a bit more BWish than a lot of toss openers. Could a couple of the warpgates be cut for an expo without creating a giant window for them to walk over and kill you? It'd be nice to have a macro opener that, while a little slow on the expo, is safe, gives you a quick leg up on upgrades and tech, and can still turn aggressive if need be by switching to the all-in version.
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On September 13 2011 20:48 Haydin wrote:
I really, really like this build. I wonder, though, if it could be worked into more of an opener than an all-in. The style of 1 gateway, 1 robo, and the early forge is a lot of fun, and feels a bit more BWish than a lot of toss openers. Could a couple of the warpgates be cut for an expo without creating a giant window for them to walk over and kill you? It'd be nice to have a macro opener that, while a little slow on the expo, is safe, gives you a quick leg up on upgrades and tech, and can still turn aggressive if need be by switching to the all-in version.
Well that build uses 5 gateways, so considering the costs, going for 3 gates with one less zealot in the push allows for an expo around the 8' mark I believe ? Not so bad, but if the push doesn't work, you won't be able to reinforce as efficiently.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
my question would be, why do you prioritize armor over attack upgrades? immortal with +2 attack 2-shots stimmed marines and marauders, and scvs - not to speak of buildings (which just vanish instantly).
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On September 13 2011 21:12 Ganseng wrote:
my question would be, why do you prioritize armor over attack upgrades? immortal with +2 attack 2-shots stimmed marines and marauders, and scvs - not to speak of buildings (which just vanish instantly).
immortals already shred marauders, and every bit of armor helps tremendously against marines - going for armor is definitely the correct choice, given that your opponent wants to have a lot of marines against your composition
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+armor is always better against masses as the +attack will not affect how fast you will kill the units (which is usually 1/2 shots). The longer your units live the more shots they get in. PvP for example favors +attack as you can assume he will also have a similar force of rather hard hitting units.
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On September 13 2011 21:12 Ganseng wrote:
my question would be, why do you prioritize armor over attack upgrades? immortal with +2 attack 2-shots stimmed marines and marauders, and scvs - not to speak of buildings (which just vanish instantly).
It seems the point of the build is to be heavily armored.
Hardened Shell + armor upgrade + guardian shield.
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1 EMP completely broke this build, I guess it's too late.
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On September 13 2011 12:17 Techno wrote:Im a Terran player. I am lost in a sea of confusion. I feel like how all you guys talk about, but this time it seems so much more real....http://drop.sc/34473http://drop.sc/34472
These were some of the replays I was gonna post of an attempted 2 base variation From a 2 gate robo expand that some people wanted to see.
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Worked well against a Roaching Zerg though, haha!
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On September 14 2011 00:05 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 00:02 Vtwo wrote:
1 EMP completely broke this build, I guess it's too late. Have you not heard of spreading out your units..? Especially the sentries!
Tell that to the ramp I tried to clear.
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EPT
