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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:24 S_SienZ wrote: Thanks man! Also thanks to the 1st 2 guys who replied. Will definitely keep all these in mind and refine my TvT opening before I hit the ladder next time. Good luck ^^! Keep in mind I'm not saying my opening is the only correct way to play a 1 rax expand, it's just what I find the safest for me. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 15 2011 16:34 Corridor wrote: What are some good builds for a gold-level terran? Also, how do I effectively spend my money late game as terran? I've been doing Marauder First FE against protoss, but Zealot + Sentry just roflstomps over my bases. Is this normal? When is the appropriate time to transition to ghosts TvZ and TvP? TvZ: 2 rax pressure -> expo or reactor hellion expo, into marine tank medivac TvP: 1 rax gasless FE on big maps, 2 rax reactor/tech pressure into expo on small/medium maps TvT: not sure, really. If you want to be safe and go for a macro game even if you're a little behind against FE builds, raven expand into marine tank medivac is decent. If you want to go for early game harass, cloak banshee into the same midgame is solid as well. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 15 2011 11:13 hyduk wrote: When do you guys usually cut SCV production? 66 (enough to fully saturate 2 bases)? Anywhere between 70-80 is optimal, I would say. If you can add macro orbitals/are maxed banking money, sacrificing more past that is not a bad idea. I would never go over 80ish though. | ||
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Corridor
Malaysia32 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 14 2011 19:35 rawler wrote: Sensor towers - I use them almost every Terran game. They seem awesome to me. Been watching a lot of pro stream recently--- rarely see them in use. Do pros consider these a waste of money because their APM is so high they just scout everything? lol. Why waste 100 gas? What's the deal? Surely they arent so good they can scout EVERYTHING? I especially find this useful TvT because you can help prevent drops like this.. but it can also prevent WP (toss), Overlord doom drops, and for TvT it helps me deal wtih siege tanks.. I often drop them near my siege contain line to help me see where their tanks are if my vikings can't get to that area or are spread too thin. god, I wish I had one for Protoss! People are starting to use them a lot more lately, at least NA ladder. They're definitely good really at any point 3+ bases in any matchup, best in TvT. TvT I'll usually make 1 in my main for drops and another at the front lines for positioning purposes, TvP usually 1 in the lategame for warp prism play. They are quite strong for sure in mid/late game! | ||
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VPFaZe
United States10 Posts
On November 15 2011 10:35 upperbound wrote: If you're not at the right number of units, you need to practice the build more. It's a pretty simple build order and at early timing pushes, even something like 1 marauder and 1 marine can make a huge, huge difference. If you can get up to that 50 supply number, that will probably correlate with an improvement in your overall macro. I have had small delays in my timings hurt me dramatically in my results. For example, today I got supply blocked at 27 for about 10 seconds due to trying out an earlier expand timing in my double reactor hellion opening, and the 10-12 second delay in the timing allowed his first creep tumor to get out and his spines to move out to the choke on Antiga before my hellions got there to stop this. He then got to drone freely and transition into 2 base muta, when normally this build keeps muta numbers low by putting on constant pressure at the natural. Small variations in key timings can make a huge, huge difference in your play. Don't underestimate this. Yeah, i'm doing the build exactly as it says, i know it was made before patch, and right about now at 640 i have 43 supply with conc not yet done. idk what im doing wrong, becasue im following the build directly. | ||
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zende
Sweden234 Posts
Thanks! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
The fastest DT comes out at like 6:20 ISH. An 18 Cyber finishes at 3:30, and then you've got a 50 second Twilight Council and a 100 second Dark shrine that together will take you up to like 6:10. Then you need 5 seconds to make the DT using a warpgate. This isn't REALLY a feasible DT rush since you'll need stalkers and crap to defend though-- and unlike with a banshee rush, Protoss has more trouble just walling off, and ranged units require gas, etc, which slow this down. I'd say if you suspect a 1-base DT rush start perking your ears up after like 6:40. | ||
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
http://drop.sc/59756 Im playing with the starter edition, but I'd say my level is around gold league. The game is vs a diamond leaguer. Thanks | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 17 2011 00:26 huehuehuehue wrote: Hi, can anyone look at this replay and point out some things that I'm doing wrong? It's a TvP macro game where i go 1 rax expand with no gas. http://drop.sc/59756 Im playing with the starter edition, but I'd say my level is around gold league. The game is vs a diamond leaguer. Thanks Hi, Some comments about the game : Make your bunker at the natural closer to your Command Center (you can't pull SCVs in time if the bunker is that far). Take both gasses at 23 supply in order to start Stim and constant Marauder production straightaway. Going 5 rax without teching Ghosts/Medivacs after this opening pretty much means you have to hit him around 9' or 10' with your forces, since your Vikings or Ghosts will be too late to deal with Colossi or HTs after. Getting Starport before building +2 rax is more standard. 3 lab and 2 reactors would be more appropriate than 3 reactors and 2 lab. Get Reactor on your Factory, then swap Factory with Starport and use your Factory to scout. When you tech Starport, get your gasses at your natural in order to be able to constantly produce Medivacs or Vikings. You'll need gas later for Ghosts, anyway. You did not scout his Colossi, and after you did you had 3 Medivacs and 2 Vikings queued up in your Starport. No Viking out against 4 Colossi = lose, simple as that. As pointed above, you should have Starport earlier; once you scout Colossi and you don't have any Vikings yet, you should at least try to build an additional Starport (with Reactor !). You lost because you did not get enough Vikings to deal with his Colossi; you did not have enough Vikings because you did not get Reactors on your Starports. | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:30 Pokebunny wrote: TvZ: 2 rax pressure -> expo or reactor hellion expo, into marine tank medivac TvP: 1 rax gasless FE on big maps, 2 rax reactor/tech pressure into expo on small/medium maps TvT: not sure, really. If you want to be safe and go for a macro game even if you're a little behind against FE builds, raven expand into marine tank medivac is decent. If you want to go for early game harass, cloak banshee into the same midgame is solid as well. Hi! Could you give a run down on the T v T raven expand build for noobs like me? Thanks! | ||
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Corridor
Malaysia32 Posts
Game of me against a protoss on SEA ladder. I'm a gold league terran. I'm having trouble with the chargelot+archon comp, and I would like some feedback on stuff I'm doing wrong. | ||
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
On November 17 2011 01:03 TheDwf wrote: Hi, Some comments about the game : Make your bunker at the natural closer to your Command Center (you can't pull SCVs in time if the bunker is that far). Take both gasses at 23 supply in order to start Stim and constant Marauder production straightaway. Going 5 rax without teching Ghosts/Medivacs after this opening pretty much means you have to hit him around 9' or 10' with your forces, since your Vikings or Ghosts will be too late to deal with Colossi or HTs after. Getting Starport before building +2 rax is more standard. 3 lab and 2 reactors would be more appropriate than 3 reactors and 2 lab. Get Reactor on your Factory, then swap Factory with Starport and use your Factory to scout. When you tech Starport, get your gasses at your natural in order to be able to constantly produce Medivacs or Vikings. You'll need gas later for Ghosts, anyway. You did not scout his Colossi, and after you did you had 3 Medivacs and 2 Vikings queued up in your Starport. No Viking out against 4 Colossi = lose, simple as that. As pointed above, you should have Starport earlier; once you scout Colossi and you don't have any Vikings yet, you should at least try to build an additional Starport (with Reactor !). You lost because you did not get enough Vikings to deal with his Colossi; you did not have enough Vikings because you did not get Reactors on your Starports. Thank you for your reply! When should i get ghosts btw, when im on 3base? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 17 2011 01:18 huehuehuehue wrote:Thank you for your reply! When should i get ghosts btw, when im on 3base? Around this time, yes (since they're expensive), or as soon as you see the Protoss heading towards High Templars. On November 17 2011 01:15 Corridor wrote: http://drop.sc/59781 Game of me against a protoss on SEA ladder. I'm a gold league terran. I'm having trouble with the chargelot+archon comp, and I would like some feedback on stuff I'm doing wrong. Shortly : first macro (you had 2.5k minerals at 12' !), second unit composition (you need way more Marines against Zealots/Archons; and to make mass Marines, you need Reactors on your Barracks). Your Medivacs were too late; you should have used drops to scout what tech path he had chosen. You did not use all your Ghost energy at the fight near his third; you really need to bomb all the Archons with EMPs. You also need to hit & run with your MMM group; otherwise, they will simply melt in a frontal fight. Don't bother with Banshees and/or Ravens. Use your Factory to scout, there's no need to have an idle Lab Factory the whole game in your base. To sum it up, you should have more Marines than Marauders, enough Ghosts to EMP all his Archons, and you should fight near choke positions with Marauders in front to tank damages; then you hit & run. Your position was good near his third, but you simply did not have enough. | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
On November 17 2011 01:50 TheDwf wrote: Around this time, yes (since they're expensive), or as soon as you see the Protoss heading towards High Templars. Shortly : first macro (you had 2.5k minerals at 12' !), second unit composition (you need way more Marines against Zealots/Archons; and to make mass Marines, you need Reactors on your Barracks). Your Medivacs were too late; you should have used drops to scout what tech path he had chosen. You did not use all your Ghost energy at the fight near his third; you really need to bomb all the Archons with EMPs. You also need to hit & run with your MMM group; otherwise, they will simply melt in a frontal fight. Don't bother with Banshees and/or Ravens. Use your Factory to scout, there's no need to have an idle Lab Factory the whole game in your base. To sum it up, you should have more Marines than Marauders, enough Ghosts to EMP all his Archons, and you should fight near choke positions with Marauders in front to tank damages; then you hit & run. Your position was good near his third, but you simply did not have enough. One small thing to add about scouting with the Factory: Make sure you make your armory before the factory gets to the opponent base. I just started doing MMM against Protoss yesterday, and I had the misfortune of getting my factory killed by Phoenix before I had an armory. It effectively delayed my 2/2 and 3/3 upgrades by 2 minutes and cost me the game even though I started with a 20 supply advantage. | ||
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Corridor
Malaysia32 Posts
I was facing a lot of terrans in ladder and got caught off-guard by a protoss and panicked (lame excuse for macroing badly), and thanks for the advice! I always thought mass marine was bad against toss due to storm and colossus melting all of them, hence my focus on marauders. Guess I was wrong. I really have to work on those reactors. EDIT: Also, can anyone find the 1-1-1 build that MVP did on MC a while ago? EDIT2: MVP's build IIRC wasn't the one base all-in. The one with an expansion? I might be mistaken. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
On November 17 2011 02:46 Corridor wrote: Thanks TheDwf and RoboBob :D I was facing a lot of terrans in ladder and got caught off-guard by a protoss and panicked (lame excuse for macroing badly), and thanks for the advice! I always thought mass marine was bad against toss due to storm and colossus melting all of them, hence my focus on marauders. Guess I was wrong. I really have to work on those reactors. EDIT: Also, can anyone find the 1-1-1 build that MVP did on MC a while ago? You shouldn't practice 1-1-1 in the gold league. It will just be a waste of your time. | ||
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Waah
United States120 Posts
On November 17 2011 01:18 huehuehuehue wrote: Thank you for your reply! When should i get ghosts btw, when im on 3base? You can do a ghost timing push off two base. If you're not doing such an opening however, I guess 3 base worth of gas is good for decent ghost production without neglecting upgrades. Bio-Ghost-Viking/Medivac compositions need to keep up in upgrades vs Toss. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 17 2011 01:50 TheDwf wrote: Around this time, yes (since they're expensive), or as soon as you see the Protoss heading towards High Templars. Shortly : first macro (you had 2.5k minerals at 12' !), second unit composition (you need way more Marines against Zealots/Archons; and to make mass Marines, you need Reactors on your Barracks). Your Medivacs were too late; you should have used drops to scout what tech path he had chosen. You did not use all your Ghost energy at the fight near his third; you really need to bomb all the Archons with EMPs. You also need to hit & run with your MMM group; otherwise, they will simply melt in a frontal fight. Don't bother with Banshees and/or Ravens. Use your Factory to scout, there's no need to have an idle Lab Factory the whole game in your base. To sum it up, you should have more Marines than Marauders, enough Ghosts to EMP all his Archons, and you should fight near choke positions with Marauders in front to tank damages; then you hit & run. Your position was good near his third, but you simply did not have enough. No, you're wrong. As the game goes later and later, you should move more and more towards marauder heavy. At any stage of the game I'd never go past 3 reactored barracks - once heavy splash damage comes into play marines are basically worthless, but having an even count of tech / reactor off 2base is strong against gateway play (2tech 2reactor). Once colossus/HT are in play (to an extent archons as well) you'll want to limit marine production (obviously not stop making them entirely; but all new barracks should have techlabs past 3 bases / 3 reactors). | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 17 2011 06:23 Pokebunny wrote: No, you're wrong. As the game goes later and later, you should move more and more towards marauder heavy. At any stage of the game I'd never go past 3 reactored barracks - once heavy splash damage comes into play marines are basically worthless, but having an even count of tech / reactor off 2base is strong against gateway play (2tech 2reactor). Once colossus/HT are in play (to an extent archons as well) you'll want to limit marine production (obviously not stop making them entirely; but all new barracks should have techlabs past 3 bases / 3 reactors). You misunderstood me—I was referring to his replay, in which he got no Reactor at all on his Barracks. I was not telling him to make Reactor on all his Barracks. About going more Marines or more Marauders, it depends on the Protoss composition, and his replay was about Zealots/Archons in mid- and lategame. | ||
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