EPTsecond one is this: I love using mech and what not but the problem is that i've been reading a lot of thread stuff about bio in tvp and to me it seems useless cause of the protoss deathball(and the ghost nerf and the toss weapons buff) so would mech be more better to use seeing as bio is pretty much sol or what.
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 68
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
second one is this: I love using mech and what not but the problem is that i've been reading a lot of thread stuff about bio in tvp and to me it seems useless cause of the protoss deathball(and the ghost nerf and the toss weapons buff) so would mech be more better to use seeing as bio is pretty much sol or what. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:20 Qikz wrote: I just have problems with the deathball, but seriously to deal with the remax you just need more rax than them. I've found the only way to deal with it is to always make sure I'm adding more rax when I can afford it just everywhere on the map so they can't camp them all at once. (obviously spread around my bases). As zealots especially with stalkers seem more cost effective than very small bio armies, just having even 1 or 2 more rax than he has gateways can really help. well i don't think more racks help, i usually have 10+ in the late game and he still rolls me over if i lose the major engagement. i also think it's a bad idea to spread your production between bases, better everything at one base imo, because if he kills you in small groups it's even worse. really annoying. do i just have to build million bunkers+planetaries and try to drop/nuke behind it? but with colossi even fortifications melt like butter. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 14 2011 13:35 Kluey wrote: Is there any rule of thumb for how many barracks per base you should have? Also how many factories if you are going mech? And, what's the timing for Mutalisks? What's the timing to take your third base? What's the standard mech timing against Z? Is mech still viable in TvP? I'm playing a lot of Terran on my smurf account so that's why I'm asking all these questions.  1)you shall have as much production as you can fund. your max. income per base is ca. 750 minerals and 220 gas/minute. here are gas/mineral cost of your crucial units per minute (given constant production): -marine - 120m/m -marauder - 200m,50g/m -ghost - 285m,142g/m -medivac - 142m,142g/m -viking - 214m,112g/m -hellion - 200m/m -tank - 200m,167g/m -thor - 300m,200g/m -raven 100m,200g/m -banshee 150m,100g/m Keep in mind that reactors double production - as well as costs. Remember that you have to save some money for scvs (177m/m with constant production), supplies, turrets, production facilities, upgrades etc. so you better decide yourself depending on your build  if i go mech vs. zerg i usually start with reactored hellions+command center into 2 techlab and 1 reactored factory on 2 bases and then add more factories on more bases (+1 or 2 armories and starports after 3rd base) if i go bio vs protoss i usually start with gasless fast expand into 3 rax + 1 reactored starport +ebay and then add 2 more barracks, armory and 2nd ebay (on 2 base) and more and more barracks on more bases. 2)mutalisk timing depends on his build, you have to scout or scan what he's doing. 2 base defence with spines does not necessarily indicate quick mutas, it may be infestors as well. 3)good mech timing vs. zerg is to go wih +2 attack out of 2 bases while taking 3rd. the time depends on how smoothly you execute it. 4)mech is not viable in tvp. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 14 2011 15:08 Blackknight232 wrote: okay my first question is this: i've been dealing with a lot of tvt lately and i've been losing to them so much it drives me nuts. I try to go tank viking and they'll just mass bio, i try mass bio they'll mass tanks and vikings and right now i'm pretty much at a standstill with tvt. Does anyone have any idea on how to deal with tvt or how to kill tank viking or even containment? second one is this: I love using mech and what not but the problem is that i've been reading a lot of thread stuff about bio in tvp and to me it seems useless cause of the protoss deathball(and the ghost nerf and the toss weapons buff) so would mech be more better to use seeing as bio is pretty much sol or what. 1)well you can't complain about tvt, you can just copy your opponent's style and do it better =). in tvt, both marine tank and pure mech with vikings are good options. on large maps (tal'darim) pure bio is also very strong. tvt is all about positioning. siege his bases, be the first to occypy xel'nagas, make a good surround. if you can't manage macro game adequately and can't win, i just recommend to go 1-1-1 all-in, with tanks marines and vikings or banshees (depending on his starport timing). can be very strong. 2)tvp has become a hell since 1.4.2, but mech is even worse than bio. so i guess we just have to curse these yellow-faced aliens and wait for better times =) | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
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rawler
United States156 Posts
Been watching a lot of pro stream recently--- rarely see them in use. Do pros consider these a waste of money because their APM is so high they just scout everything? lol. Why waste 100 gas? What's the deal? Surely they arent so good they can scout EVERYTHING? I especially find this useful TvT because you can help prevent drops like this.. but it can also prevent WP (toss), Overlord doom drops, and for TvT it helps me deal wtih siege tanks.. I often drop them near my siege contain line to help me see where their tanks are if my vikings can't get to that area or are spread too thin. god, I wish I had one for Protoss! | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On November 14 2011 15:08 Blackknight232 wrote: okay my first question is this: i've been dealing with a lot of tvt lately and i've been losing to them so much it drives me nuts. I try to go tank viking and they'll just mass bio, i try mass bio they'll mass tanks and vikings and right now i'm pretty much at a standstill with tvt. Does anyone have any idea on how to deal with tvt or how to kill tank viking or even containment? second one is this: I love using mech and what not but the problem is that i've been reading a lot of thread stuff about bio in tvp and to me it seems useless cause of the protoss deathball(and the ghost nerf and the toss weapons buff) so would mech be more better to use seeing as bio is pretty much sol or what. With TvT especially with mech, I love going against pure bio even if it is pure marauder. What you want to be doing is sieging the top of your natural ramp or by your natural (on tal'darim) and get your third super fast. Make sure you have turrets everywhere to stop drops and slowly siege forward across the map with turrets and your vikings to stop him using banshees/dropping on your tanks. Only get a few hellions compared to marauders and get your upgrades SUPER quick. I usually get my first armory after I've added my third factory and start getting plus 1. If you can stay even/out upgrade the bio player he doesn't stand a chance. On Tal'darim you just have to seriously hug the wall and not be afraid to slowly push. Also get all the xel'nagas and get some sensor towers to stop runbys. If you see him going around the back, unsiege and run back as quickly as possible. Evacuate your SCVs and even if you lose the command center you'll be fine. Slowly you'll start getting more minerals than you can spend, so just build command centers/orbitals and turrets everywhere so you've got the extra drop defense and mules. EDIT: Send your hellions around denying his expansions and when you have enough tanks slowly pushed towards outside his base, you have map control and he's never getting out. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 14 2011 19:35 rawler wrote: Sensor towers - I use them almost every Terran game. They seem awesome to me. Been watching a lot of pro stream recently--- rarely see them in use. Do pros consider these a waste of money because their APM is so high they just scout everything? lol. Why waste 100 gas? What's the deal? Surely they arent so good they can scout EVERYTHING? I especially find this useful TvT because you can help prevent drops like this.. but it can also prevent WP (toss), Overlord doom drops, and for TvT it helps me deal wtih siege tanks.. I often drop them near my siege contain line to help me see where their tanks are if my vikings can't get to that area or are spread too thin. god, I wish I had one for Protoss! pros play so intensive and tight that they barely can squeeze in any additional expenses until the very late game. but then, when they are on 3+ bases, they of course add these useful things. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On November 14 2011 19:35 rawler wrote: Sensor towers - I use them almost every Terran game. They seem awesome to me. Been watching a lot of pro stream recently--- rarely see them in use. Do pros consider these a waste of money because their APM is so high they just scout everything? lol. Why waste 100 gas? What's the deal? Surely they arent so good they can scout EVERYTHING? I especially find this useful TvT because you can help prevent drops like this.. but it can also prevent WP (toss), Overlord doom drops, and for TvT it helps me deal wtih siege tanks.. I often drop them near my siege contain line to help me see where their tanks are if my vikings can't get to that area or are spread too thin. god, I wish I had one for Protoss! The reason many players don't opt for sensor towers is basically because a lot of the time you don't need them. In TvZ you see them for high mutalisk numbers from some players but that's typically only when muta numbers reach Idra level. The rest of the time, players will use Missile turrets to zone mutas instead, (which are a lot cheaper since they cost 0 gas). I always use sensor towers in split map TvZ though. Well placed nydus plays can easily lose you the game, (lots of zergs don't realise this and prefer to cry about ghosts being imba as they 1a 10 armies into a fortified position). Doom drops can also be problematic and the sensor tower can give you a small heads up about it, TvP as your bases get more spread out, people normally opt for bunkers and a couple of marines + a marauder. This has offensive and defensive potential for cheaper than a sensor tower. This isn't even considering PFs. I suppose it has the advantage of spotting for hidden pylons but you can essentially do that with a marine/scv, (although this obviously takes extra apm/game sense). Edit: I suppose they would have more utility in this MU if you used them as a gas sink occasionally. TvT I never really use them. If I want to prevent drops i'll just use turrets/4 marines in a bunker/8 marines and a medivac (for my own drop later on). | ||
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KrSuma
Korea (South)148 Posts
Im having a lot of problems versus P after the patch 1.4.2 and most of the matches I have against then turns into a loss. Ive been doing 1 Rax FE followed by drops and ghosts but gives me such a hard time. Is there any recommended build versus P nowdays? 1-1-1 maybe? upgrade cost buff is having a toll on me I believe. | ||
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MysteryHours
United States168 Posts
On November 15 2011 01:57 KrSuma wrote: Hi guys. Im having a lot of problems versus P after the patch 1.4.2 and most of the matches I have against then turns into a loss. Ive been doing 1 Rax FE followed by drops and ghosts but gives me such a hard time. Is there any recommended build versus P nowdays? 1-1-1 maybe? upgrade cost buff is having a toll on me I believe. If you want to all-in then 1-1-1 is still viable. 2 rax into expo is a good middle of the road build that can pressure a greedy P opener, but there's nothing wrong with 1 Rax FE either if that's your style. The P upgrade buff probably isn't enough to cause you to suddenly start losing games. If you're looking for specific help I recommend posting a replay. | ||
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Grndr101
Belgium125 Posts
On November 14 2011 14:04 MysteryHours wrote: Which is it? I'd be careful leading with tanks because they're less expendable than marines and they could get sniped by mutas. A decent Zerg isn't going to run banelings into your tanks anyway. Of course you don't want to lead with a giant ball of marines either, like you said it's best to lead with a small number of stimmed marines or scan ahead.I can see this might be confusing. What I do is make sure I don't have all of my marines in front of my push with my tanks trailing behind. The single stimmed marine is scouting way ahead of my army to see the opponent's army positioning or whatever's ahead. It's true that tanks are less expendable, but keeping them in front is what works for me best, if I see my opponent coming, I don't have to run my marines back behind my tanks because they're already there. | ||
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VPFaZe
United States10 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:15 humblegar wrote: If you play a perfect 3-rax like they discuss in that thread you can use it versus all races, at least in silver through gold. Make sure you follow the steps like macroing away from your base and so on, and you will improve. The thread is pretty self-explanatory. So take a look and decide if you like it or not I've been trying this, and most golds hold it off, which forces me to do a transistion which makes me seem behind. I'm always slightly under 50 supply when i push out, so that may be a factor, but its not a substantial number. Also, i've been wondering, if you actually know people who can vouch for this teaching method?So far i haven't seen my macro improve, i've just been grabbing a few more wins against other silvers. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On November 15 2011 09:40 VPFaZe wrote: I've been trying this, and most golds hold it off, which forces me to do a transistion which makes me seem behind. I'm always slightly under 50 supply when i push out, so that may be a factor, but its not a substantial number. Also, i've been wondering, if you actually know people who can vouch for this teaching method?So far i haven't seen my macro improve, i've just been grabbing a few more wins against other silvers. If you're not at the right number of units, you need to practice the build more. It's a pretty simple build order and at early timing pushes, even something like 1 marauder and 1 marine can make a huge, huge difference. If you can get up to that 50 supply number, that will probably correlate with an improvement in your overall macro. I have had small delays in my timings hurt me dramatically in my results. For example, today I got supply blocked at 27 for about 10 seconds due to trying out an earlier expand timing in my double reactor hellion opening, and the 10-12 second delay in the timing allowed his first creep tumor to get out and his spines to move out to the choke on Antiga before my hellions got there to stop this. He then got to drone freely and transition into 2 base muta, when normally this build keeps muta numbers low by putting on constant pressure at the natural. Small variations in key timings can make a huge, huge difference in your play. Don't underestimate this. | ||
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hyduk
Canada11 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 15 2011 11:13 hyduk wrote: When do you guys usually cut SCV production? 66 (enough to fully saturate 2 bases)? I try to stop at 72 (enough to optimally saturated 3 bases) but often end up going over. | ||
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hyduk
Canada11 Posts
On November 15 2011 11:15 Blazinghand wrote: I try to stop at 72 (enough to optimally saturated 3 bases) but often end up going over. oh right, my numbers were off, was thinking 9 mineral patch/base for some reason. but yeah, i usually have the same problem where ill end up with a ridiculous number of scvs at the end of longer games. it doesn't matter much now, but i'd imagine that extra 10-15 supply would mean a lot if i was facing better players. | ||
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jayman
United States78 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 15 2011 12:20 jayman wrote: What's a rule-of-thumb on making/adding factory and starport? Is it 2 gas = 1 Factory or Starport? Depends what you're making. Assuming you're not spending gas in any other way, every 2 vespenes can support 2/3rds of a tech lab factory-- so you can have 3 tech factories on 2 base, for example, or 4.5 tech factories on 3 bases. A reactor starport can dump an entire base's worth of gas. | ||
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gamecrazy
United States421 Posts
I'm struggling so bloody much in TvZ. This matchup is solo tanking my mmr. My TvP has like a 70% wr and my TvT nearly 100%. TvZ is an abysmal 10%. I open reactor hellion EVERY game. I lose to EVERY single possible play style from zerg. It could be mass roach midgame. It could be mass zergling. I don't want people to tell me to stop using reactor hellion. I tend to open with it quite successfully. I immediately grab a command center while the reactor and factory are building and go for a fast expand after my first 4 hellions are out. All the while, I poke with hellions, careful not to lose them and deny creep spread. I switch the reactor back to the barracks and go for straight marine tank, quickly going for a 3rd by about 10 minutes. If mutas, are incoming, I scan and put up turrets. Otherwise I just go into a straight marine tank midgame. Often, I push out across the map to try to kill the Zerg's 3rd while getting up my own CC in my natural to float over to my 3rd. After taking a 3rd, I worry so much over when to push, and the appropriate unit comp, I either float minerals like crazy or COMPLETELY blunder an engagement. Sometimes both. And there's no forgiveness after that. The game is simply over. The zerg can pin me on 3/4 base, and get Hive, and even if I'm maxed out I will die to the flood of ultras/lings/mutas/w/e that zerg decides to kill me with. I tend to keep up on upgrades and try to get ghosts to my comp, but I never seem to get that big enough ball of ghosts to emp/snipe everything before just flat out dying. I've also tried going Mech, and I end up dying to BL's (even after getting to 200/200) and pushing his 3rd and wiping off everything but his main and nat off the map. Basically, I would like to know what is the best way to transition after reactor hellion expo and actually apply pressure to zerg without committing. Often times, a huge swarm of lings or roaches FORCES me to trade armies. Trading armies always ends up costing me the game. Here's an example replay. http://sc2rep.com/replays/(Z)FTWZagugli_vs_(T)gamecrazy/15786 | ||
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