EPTAs a mech player(for tvz, tvp) and bio mech(for tvt) what are some good openers in order to transition into mech cause it seems like where i screw myself over is have a plan for the mid-late game but really no openers to start. can someone give me a good idea where i can do some kind of harassment and still have a good shiny mech army?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 71
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
As a mech player(for tvz, tvp) and bio mech(for tvt) what are some good openers in order to transition into mech cause it seems like where i screw myself over is have a plan for the mid-late game but really no openers to start. can someone give me a good idea where i can do some kind of harassment and still have a good shiny mech army? | ||
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drgrofl
Canada48 Posts
Always keep dropping marines everywhere is tvz. ALWAyS get upgraDES. Without them you are dead. Just saying. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 17 2011 06:47 TheDwf wrote: You misunderstood me—I was referring to his replay, in which he got no Reactor at all on his Barracks. I was not telling him to make Reactor on all his Barracks. About going more Marines or more Marauders, it depends on the Protoss composition, and his replay was about Zealots/Archons in mid- and lategame. Right, what I was saying you're wrong about is that you should go marine heavy against zealot archon. In any mid-late game situation it is better to gravitate more towards marauders than marines. Naked barracks over reactors is a personal preference; it doesn't really matter as long as you're macroing well / have a decent ratio of both. | ||
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Basher_
82 Posts
My TvZ is my weakest mu by far. with tvp and less so with tvt i feel like I basically know what to do and to expect but with zerg i just can't get it straight. i know for one thing my scv production isn't constant and there are macro problems in general (i'm mid-plat). But I feel like I'm missing timings. I don't know when to attack or quite when to expect what, especially brood lords. when should i switch to vikings? ghosts? Am i making too much infantry? too many turrets? etc. some replys: 1) http://drop.sc/60025/d 2) http://drop.sc/60021/d 3) http://drop.sc/60023/d | ||
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theBOOCH
United States832 Posts
Muta Rush 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-241916.jpg) Muta Rush 2 ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-241917.jpg) Baneling Feint ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-241918.jpg) | ||
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
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theBOOCH
United States832 Posts
What is the best way to hold off a 3gate robo allin? Say i'm 2raxing (reactor techlab, reactor first) and I find out he's massing up immortals stalkers and sentries. What is the optimal way to hold off a well executed 3gate robo? Do I go fast ghost to emp the immortal? Do I build several bunkers? Because bunkers seem to be easy to pick off. Toss just needs to surround them with forcefields to prevent repair and then focus them down with immortals. How many barracks should I make? And is there ever a point when I don't need to pull scvs at all (except for repair)? I guess it depends on how early you catch it and how sure you are, but in general, after a 2 rax expo your only real option is to bunker down hard. It's an all-in on his part, so all you have to do is hold. I would say at least three bunkers, maybe four, THEN tech to ghosts or medivacs, add barracks and focus mainly on marines. | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
Another option would be considering stay with your 2nd CC in your main base. if you have already expanded just lift your CC and try to defend from your main. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 17 2011 11:40 Pokebunny wrote:Right, what I was saying you're wrong about is that you should go marine heavy against zealot archon. I don't see why, Marines deal way more damage (~2x against non-armored targets for the same supply amount, with Reactors allowing you to get 2 Marines slightly faster than you get one Marauder) for slightly less health. Marauders are there for slow and meat shield, but if you make more Mauraders than Marines against Zealots/Archons, you will lack dps. | ||
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halpimcat
215 Posts
On November 17 2011 17:08 Kid-Fox wrote: What is the best way to hold off a 3gate robo allin? Say i'm 2raxing (reactor techlab, reactor first) and I find out he's massing up immortals stalkers and sentries. What is the optimal way to hold off a well executed 3gate robo? Do I go fast ghost to emp the immortal? Do I build several bunkers? Because bunkers seem to be easy to pick off. Toss just needs to surround them with forcefields to prevent repair and then focus them down with immortals. How many barracks should I make? And is there ever a point when I don't need to pull scvs at all (except for repair)? Just a lot of bunkers and a lot of scvs. As soon as you smell an immortal push you put down at least 3 bunkers, preferably more. You'll know the push is definitely coming once he pushes out and takes control of the xel'naga towers. Once your vision is shut down immediately pull about 4-6 scvs and spread them IN FRONT of the bunkers. The bunkers should be spread out so it takes more sentry FFs to block repair, but at the same time should be aligned so your units inside can shoot the toss army at the same time (ie toss army can't pick off 1 bunker at a time without worrying about getting shot from other bunkers). Once he pushes in pull in another healthy batch of scvs to heal the back of the bunkers if they can. Constantly heal, remake bunkers when necessary, and make units, and you should be fine. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
3. If you scout 2 early gas and no expansion by ~6-7 minutes, save a scan until you get turrets up, unless you either see 3+ sentries or robo tech out. If he expands somewhere between 6-7 minutes and has few sentries, it could also be a DT expand build (but the key here is few sentries; the normal 3gate expo will have 4-6 sentries.) Here is a question I have: If i don't know what a Protoss is doing, when should I scan? I've had games where I've scanned too early or too late, and I'd like to know when I shoudl scan looking for certain things, such as DT expand, a 4 gate warp prism and othermore creative builds | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On November 18 2011 01:36 DarkCore wrote: Here is a question I have: If i don't know what a Protoss is doing, when should I scan? I've had games where I've scanned too early or too late, and I'd like to know when I shoudl scan looking for certain things, such as DT expand, a 4 gate warp prism and othermore creative builds Scan with your third OC usage-- by then, if he's not hiding his tech, it'll be fairly clear what's going on. As a general rule, the Protoss will be hiding his tech buildings anyways, but if he hasn't started his expansion, it's safe to keep your OC in your main rather than flying out, since 2x mule on 1 base will still have you ahead economically, and you'll be better situated to deal with the all-in. Scout aggressively for saved chrono boost, gas timings, etc. using your initial scv and a delayed scv scout for his expansion. | ||
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whoopingchow
United States293 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors6/vod/66249 Anyone tried this/can speak to it's viability/weaknesses? | ||
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
On November 17 2011 17:03 theBOOCH wrote: Losing to gold and platinum zergs because everyone is fake baneling or roach rushing into one base muta or a hidden expo. I react to whatever I think they're doing and I end up losing to stupid shit. I scout constantly in the early game, etc. Should I wast a scan to see what they're doing 100% and if so, when? With this stupid muta rush, you have to put an engineering bay down as soon as they put their spire down or you can't get turrets in time and if you open tanks you won't have enough marines. I guess if I know their totally one basing I shouldn't get my CC, but I know I can hold a Roach Rush or Baneling bust, but I guess one base muta requires a more dedicated approach. Obviously if they get scouted in time they auto-lose, but I'm having trouble with that it seems. Also, as always, having a hard time with scouting and harrassing Zerg late-game. Last game I should have won, and may even have been able to win, but I could never really get a leg up, except for a huge worker lead. Again, he fake baneling-ed into a hidden expand (I thought I scouted the base but didn't) and my first and second push got crushed because I thought he was still on one base but he was on two just making speedlings... didn't catch the broodlord switch (despite a lot of scouting earlier on) and got rolled in spite of twice the apm, a 30 worker lead, higher supply, tons of banked money, and full upgrades (including building armor etc, lol.) Let's kill a bunch of birds with one stone, eh? Obviously there are a ton of things I could have done better in the third game, but in the first two, I don't really know what I could have done better with the info I had, except use every scan on their main, lol. Muta Rush 1 Muta Rush 2 Baneling Feint I'm a diamond terran speaking not from experience because no zerg does those strats at my level o,o Game 1: I think you just teched too hard before having units. For the entire game your marines came out of 1 barracks, while his mutas came out 2 at a time. Even if he didn't do 1base muta and pushed with roach/baneling anyways, you would have been in huge trouble. I'd suggest that in response to a baneling/roach bust allin you make more barracks (2-3 more-ish) at the wall instead of bunkers and then just siege expand. This way, if he does happen to muta rush, then you cut tank production and make more marines (+turrets if you wish). If you really want to stick to your game plan with 2 gas teching to starport quickly, you should rush an armory after getting turrets and then get a quick thor for defence, although this playstyle makes me very uncomfortable to be honest. Game 2: Your build is more solid this game (getting 2 more barracks). At about 6:40, you found something extremely suspicious: an overlord dropping creep in the side of the base and no expansion. Alarm bells should be going off at this moment. If he has creep dropping from an overlord, he's rushed lair before expanding, which almost with 100% certainty points towards muta rush. I'd recommend to you more common openings like 12/14 2rax or reactor hellion, my two favorite builds (there are many others you could do, even 11/11 rax). Pressure openings like those are very useful because they actually are a way to scout. At 5 minutes, he didn't have any defence at all. If you waltzed in with 5 marines at that point, it could have been gg instantly. Game 3: I don't have enough time right now to fully analyze, but don't siege up on top of creep tumors. Stay outside, occassionally scan and kill tumors, and leapfrog your tanks forward. I know you probably have heard of this 100000 times but make sure your unit production, scv production, and supply depots are all spot on and automatic. Your macro is not horrible as I might have thought from a gold/platinum level player but there's some mistakes I still see, such as forgetting to produce while attacking or while being under attack. I hope some of these tips helped. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On November 17 2011 17:08 Kid-Fox wrote: What is the best way to hold off a 3gate robo allin? Say i'm 2raxing (reactor techlab, reactor first) and I find out he's massing up immortals stalkers and sentries. What is the optimal way to hold off a well executed 3gate robo? Do I go fast ghost to emp the immortal? Do I build several bunkers? Because bunkers seem to be easy to pick off. Toss just needs to surround them with forcefields to prevent repair and then focus them down with immortals. How many barracks should I make? And is there ever a point when I don't need to pull scvs at all (except for repair)? If you're not moving out with 5 marines and a marauder to poke, you need to be doing that, too. This timing with concussive is so effective against this composition because he'll usually only have a gateway and a robo up (2 more gates finishing up building and transitioning to warpgates) and it forces him to use sentry energy or basically just die. Even if he just forcefields his ramp once and warps in 3 zealots, you've already softened the blow of his push a lot because won't have enough forcefields to kill your bunkers. Also, don't be afraid to pull SCV's on the push. He'll have between 23 and 26 probes, while you'll probably have 32 or so SCV's depending on your expo timing plus 2 mules. Even if you pull 10 SCV's,and he kills them all, you will win the long game because you can pump SCV's off 2 rax and exploit your mule advantage. Pull them early to repair bunkers at first, and if that doesn't work just put them out front and fight with autorepair. You use them as a buffer to pick off his zealots, and then he's in bad shape because you can just stim toward him and lol at all of his stalkers. | ||
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HypernovA
Canada556 Posts
I find that I can transition into my 9 to 10 minute marine/tank/medivac push much quicker and easier than hellion expand. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On November 18 2011 13:03 HypernovA wrote: What do other Terran's think of 1 rax expands in TvZ? I find that I can transition into my 9 to 10 minute marine/tank/medivac push much quicker and easier than hellion expand. A 1 rax FE is more economical and recovers more quickly than a reactor hellion expand, but lacks the ability to assert map control, scout, and generally mess up the Zerg player's day that a reactor hellion expo would. I'd recommend it only on maps with large rush distances or where you think you'd be unlikely to assert map control with hellions in an effective manner. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 18 2011 13:03 HypernovA wrote: What do other Terran's think of 1 rax expands in TvZ? It's fine, but as against P, you need to know what you're doing since you give up map control for some minuts and may have scouting difficulties as a result (which is a bit problematic if your opponent goes for a baneling bust, for instance). | ||
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kORALIE
Belgium16 Posts
So i've been doing that 2 rax 3 bunker expand. Here's replay me losing to a zerg. I think I lost mostly because I had zero micro, poor unit upgrades, am I right? Of course theres that im not scouting enough and other "bad jazz" such as unit composition etc. At least I didnt get supply blocked! And I noticed my superior worker count @ some point. edit: Against 1/1/1 terrans i always lose. Either i've too late engbay, or they do siege timing  | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On November 18 2011 13:03 HypernovA wrote: What do other Terran's think of 1 rax expands in TvZ? I find that I can transition into my 9 to 10 minute marine/tank/medivac push much quicker and easier than hellion expand. The crux of the reactor hellion expand is not having the greediest possible opening or the most damaging opening; it's about being on nigh-equal footing and being able to scout early aggresion/responding to it. A 1 rax fe is giving zerg a free 3rd/possibility to banebust within a big window where you can't realistically see it coming | ||
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