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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On March 04 2013 11:45 rice_devOurer wrote: What do i do after a successful 11/11 and the zerg doesn't gg out? Common transitions I have observed are; Triple OC into Mech/Bio Blue Flame timing 2-4port banshee Additional Rax followup. I think the triple OC variant is the most common | ||
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darkphantom
98 Posts
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0 adrian 0
United States1 Post
User was warned for this post | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On March 05 2013 04:32 darkphantom wrote: what's a good build order + follow up for marine hellion elevator TvT ? http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4456 TvT section, first spoiler. | ||
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darkphantom
98 Posts
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
 As for my own questions, what is your opinion on a Polt style Marauder push against Zerg around 9-10 minutes? I like being agressive to Zerg before Mutas or Infestors can get out in significant numbers but ever since I got to Diamond a lot of Zergs can hold it off. It does force them to make a lot of units instead of drones but unless they go for a fast third hatch it doesn't seem to work anymore. I did read from your list that 2 base pressure against Zerg is not very effective (anymore?) but what else should I do? I feel very uncomfortable leaving Zerg free to just macro up to 75 drones uncontested. (and I'm not a fan of no-rush 15 min. games) My other question is about TvT when I face a turtling opponent. Normally my response to a turtle is to expand heavily and starve him out but in TvT my opponent turtles on Tanks and Missile Turrets and then drops me everywhere. I usually have my Marine/Tank army parked outside of natural to prevent him from taking any more expansions. I can move my army back to defend against the drops, but then he gets to take an expansion. I read from your list that the lategame TvT goes to an Air transition, should I transition to Air earlier if I scout a turtling Terran? Thanks in advance | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
True terran "TheDwf wrote: Turret rings + Sensor Towers by lategame. A small squad of Speedreapers can clear Zealots/DTs warp-ins if you have the time to get it (most likely in split or near split map scenario)." But...but...I ran out of hotkeys  I got face raped by a GM protoss like this 5 games in a row because I have no idea how to deal with the multiprong zealot+DT warpins.. I really need to take reapers seriously, especially considering how scary they are 3/3+speed late game and just jump everywhere But HoTS is coming out and I cant destroy buildings like a total asshole..however at the same time I dont need to heal them | ||
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darkphantom
98 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
I saw the outdated iEchoic banshee/hellion build (because of the nerf). And well, so today i was bored and thought there maybe a way to make it work with marines instead. I like to play with banshees more then tanks, because i don't see them often in strategies, certainly not used in a composition. It would be fun to create (or copy) a strategy that would be descent. But i'm not a master, so i cant judge if it's viable, but ofcourse im gonna try on ladder a couple of times anyway because it's fun to test stuff out. I have noticed it times out pretty well (gas/resource wise). Would anyone be so kind to give some advice or opinions, it would be appreciated : 10 Depot 12 Rax --> marines until 50 gas then reactor 13 Gas (3x scv's) 15 Rax 17 Orbital Depot 19 Gas (2x scv's in the start later on 3 scv's) 20 Factory 24 Depot 27 Depot (from this point depots when needed) 30 Starport 2x --> techlab 2x 32 Techlab on rax --> @7:00min --> short map combat shield, long map stim 1. Stop saturation around 22 to 24 scv's in total (thats approx when the 2x starports are ready); 2. Move out at a maximum of @8:00min, rally the other banshees, marines etc, they will be there on time. For me, it feels like it would be best to attack with everything at once, the attack would hit at 8:45 on a large map with : 24 marines (shielded or stimmed) / 4 banshees / 2x medivac some scv's to repair the banshees. U can opt to see the build as an all in and send allmost all of the scv's. If u would opt for that, leave +/-8 scv's at home so the rax 2x can still constantly reinforce). Ofcourse do damage or win with the push. iEchoic did 1 base play into 3 bases if he killed most of the army of the opponent. If i interpreted that correctly, staying on 1 base longer doesn't have to be characterized as an all-in automatically when his build was viable. I don't know if this counts also for this possible variation. 1. Do u think it could be viable? 2. If u would try it anyway, how would u engage? (attack sooner with the banshees or marine/medivac, double pronged attack or 1 push)? 3. If for some reason u do see some potential, is there something u would do different? thx, govie | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On March 04 2013 11:27 U_G_L_Y wrote: Well thank you SO much for taking on the weight of helping all of us retarded Terrans all by yourself. My wife does not thank you, however, because I might have quit out of frustration without your help  You're welcome*. *Naturally I decline any responsibility for the impact on your marital life. (; On March 04 2013 11:45 rice_devOurer wrote: What do i do after a successful 11/11 and the zerg doesn't gg out? Expand/tech, and if you're very ahead maintain pressure or kill with a timing; see Reality vs Zenio, Cloud Kingdom, SPL. Define succesful though, because transitions can depend a lot on the situation after the attack is over. On March 04 2013 12:14 netherDrake wrote: Not sure how relevant this builds/strats are with regards to HotS but I'd like to know what I could've done better in this game (NA GM level). Played against this guy, I couldn't do much because of his good creepspread and defense overall. Map was antiga ladder version. I seem to have trouble with a heavy ultralisk/baneling composition on that map. It feels very difficult to deny the zerg map control (especially with the gold base on the ladder edition, you have to push out to deny it). I know I can't take a straight up engagement without enough marauders, but him mining the gold for a long time (and me being on 3 bases) wouldn't matter even though I manage to trade efficiently against his initial army because he'll have enough to remax quicker and my 3 base economy can never match that. Same would apply to a heavy mutalingbling style on that map I guess. http://drop.sc/308771 Thanks. edit: sorry, uploaded wrong replay I don't like much the build you used because as I said here (last part of the post), the rampant creep is an inherent weakness of the build; the BFH attack aims at killing Drones rather than controlling creep, and then you don't have Medivacs before a long time. On Antiga this is probably not a good build order choice as the creep naturally pushes towards your fourth (with no realistic alternative choice, unlike for instance Cloud Kingdom in which you can take the other fourth), which simply blocks you for too long and makes you lose if your pre-Hive units timing is not succesful. Your problem in this game is that you were probably too afraid of the creep, and thus missed your window (which was extended by the fact you wiped out his entire mineral line at his natural with your BFH attack); he went Ultralisks behind a pure Zerglings/Infestors army, which was not totally legit given the circumstances, but he successfully banked on the fact Terrans are reluctant to bulldoze through several screens of creep. You were then stuck with an inappropriate Marines/Tanks army against 5/3 Ultralisks, so inevitably you lost the fight even if you had many Tanks, and since you had no fourth you had no option afterwards. Moral of the story: hit your pre-Hive units timing using drops to pull his army out of position, be sure to destroy all Tumors blocking your fourth, trade so you can free supply and add Marauders. Mixing Marauders against Infestors is also a possibility, this way you're better prepared if he chooses Ultralisks as his first Hive tech. Some kind of eco 6/1 Hellion/Banshee (or a greedier variant if you're willing to take risks) quickly teching Medivacs against 3-bases Lair so you can try to clear some creep with 6 Hellions, 16 Marines and 2 Medivacs is probably better suited to Antiga. See Ryung vs SortOf, Whirlwind and Entombed Valley, Ritmix RSL IV. On March 04 2013 14:49 HanSomPa wrote: Umm... Win the game? If you successfully 11/11 him and do crippling damage, you can just max out safely and A-move to victory. Unless you're so ahead that you can with 2-bases Battlecruisers or whatever there is no need to take unnecessary risks against the sheer power of larvae injects (which allow Zerg to catch up insanely fast if they're not left half-dead after the attack) and the threat of money fungals; when you have the advantage against Zerg it's better to keep pounding until the bug is crushed, this way you don't let the colony a chance to develop again. You have to maintain your advantage and play in such a way that it snowballs without much risk or it might just vanish if you choose a passive follow-up as it allows Zerg to play his strengths i. e. pressing the D key uninterrupted for minuts (or alternatively kill any greedy transition with a Roach/Baneling bust). There's also the fact that evaluating who is ahead and to what extent after a 11/11 can be very difficult in some circumstances. It's easy if you kill the Hatchery and 10 Drones, but things can be way more unclear (even if you kill the Hatchery). Even at high level people can easily misread the game/lead, so when you factor in the fact that lower level players inevitably miss SCVs, supply block themselves, etc., and don't have enough game sense to always precisely know when they're ahead/even/behind, or when the 11/11 was successful actually, the “sit and max” option is not recommended. On March 04 2013 14:49 HanSomPa wrote: Is CC First Rax CC viable in TvP? No, with CC first you need a second rax before your third CC against Protoss, so CC rax rax CC. On March 04 2013 14:49 HanSomPa wrote: Say I scout at 15 and see a standard 1 gate FE(Toss not reacting to CC First) is it safe for me to go Bunker-->3rd CC--->Medivac timing? You can't know, but if he doesn't react i. e. makes units, Core and still mines gas before expanding you don't need to do this as you already have the eco lead. On March 04 2013 14:49 HanSomPa wrote: What do I do when I see fast 7:00-8:00 Third from Toss as a reaction to CC First? Just punish greed with Medivac Timing? Fast thirds are built before 6' when Protoss goes 1 gate double expand, so what you describe sounds like a 1 gate expand → 3g → third build order or something else suboptimal. Anyway, yes, same treatment (assuming you went 3 rax Medivacs), but unless you're sure to have the upper hand avoid charging head-on as Protoss can have what it takes to defend your Medivac push while going fast third (but then again I don't know what your opponents are doing exactly). Something close to your scenario would be Bomber vs Squirtle, Cloud Kingdom, Red Bull Battlegrouds, but Squirtle took a third out of a failed 3g pressure then followed up with a failed 7g, so if Protoss takes a passive third without any Gateway timing you would need to inflict some damage to slow down his development before being able to finish him with a critical mass of MMM before he gets (too much) AoE, or at least cripple him enough so things even out. On March 05 2013 04:32 darkphantom wrote: what's a good build order + follow up for marine hellion elevator TvT ? From the fastest to the slowest Medivac:
Constant Marines/Hellions production in all cases. The Reactor stays on the Barracks on the two variants which get it.
Expand around the time you move out, then tech Tanks before adding 2 rax and searching Stim/CS. Vikings if needed. You might need to stay some time on Marines/Tanks/Vikings. Mech transition out of this opening are rare, ideally you swap Barracks with Factory and go Hellions + Vikings if needed, but depending on your opponent's build order, not swapping and teching Tanks to stay some time on Marines/Tanks/Vikings before adding a third and 2 Factories (or the reverse) might be required for safety reasons. There are other possibilities such as getting a second gas for a Cloak Banshee follow-up, proxying the Starport or keep producing Marines/Hellions/Medivac against a 1 rax FE → 3 rax Medivacs. On March 05 2013 07:49 Fencar wrote: http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4456 TvT section, first spoiler. This build is not very good as it commits to a second gas too early, which delays your expand and gives you excessive amounts of gas. Many build orders can successfully defend both your elevator and any tech follow-up you choose (Tanks or Cloaked Banshees) while having an earlier expand, which means you end up drastically behind without much hope, particularly if your opponent goes some kind of defensive 1-1-1 → Marines/Tanks/Vikings, possibly with a Raven. See SuperNova vs jjakji, Ohana, eSF IPL6 Seed Qualifier. On March 06 2013 01:02 Thezzy wrote: As for my own questions, what is your opinion on a Polt style Marauder push against Zerg around 9-10 minutes? I like being agressive to Zerg before Mutas or Infestors can get out in significant numbers but ever since I got to Diamond a lot of Zergs can hold it off. It does force them to make a lot of units instead of drones but unless they go for a fast third hatch it doesn't seem to work anymore. I did read from your list that 2 base pressure against Zerg is not very effective (anymore?) but what else should I do? I feel very uncomfortable leaving Zerg free to just macro up to 75 drones uncontested. (and I'm not a fan of no-rush 15 min. games) My other question is about TvT when I face a turtling opponent. Normally my response to a turtle is to expand heavily and starve him out but in TvT my opponent turtles on Tanks and Missile Turrets and then drops me everywhere. I usually have my Marine/Tank army parked outside of natural to prevent him from taking any more expansions. I can move my army back to defend against the drops, but then he gets to take an expansion. I read from your list that the lategame TvT goes to an Air transition, should I transition to Air earlier if I scout a turtling Terran? Thanks in advance See here (last part of the post); the key concepts of the answer to "Q. Are 2 base marine/medivac or marine/medivac/hellion builds viable?" in the OP also stand. Even 2-bases builds can easily defend Hellions/(Marines)/Marauders, see Hack vs DRG, Icarus, Code S RO32; aLive vs Nestea, Icarus, Code S RO32; and aLive vs Vortix, Icarus, Ritmix RSL IV. Even when pulling 30 SCVs Lucifron had not really a landslide victory against Snute in their Ohana game from the Vasacast Invitational. The main problem is precisely that Zergs can hold 2-bases timings while retaining their third, which is why they're abysmal now. You can pressure while going triple OC (Hellions/Banshees and/or Marines/Hellions/Medivac, see answer above to netherDrake), Ver's answer in the OP and what I say only apply to committed bio/Hellions 2-bases timings into third, which is different from whatever pressure you can apply backed up by 3 Orbitals because then you can match Zerg's economy and upgrades. Alternatively you can wait a week and enjoy the rebirth of Reapers and early pressure in TvZ. (; Mvp vs Keen, Daybreak, Code S RO32 featured a similar scenario with the contained player (Keen) disrupting his opponent's play with counter-drops. You don't need your whole army in front of his natural, so keep some troops at home to defend backstab drops; you don't need to stay forever in front of his base either, if the safety valve threatens to explode you can always pack and tell him goodbye from afar. No, if you both Marines/Tanks air transitions do not occur before a long time (i. e. Tank stalemates when both players are on 4+ bases); actually they almost never occur due to the unstable nature of such mirrors (economies swiftly destroyed, base trades). The problem of turtling in Marines/Tanks mirrors should not really exist if you contain him with 3 bases vs 2; in this situation he's the one who has to make something happen, so scout (with Sensor Towers—you can build one behind your contain—and Marines patrolling), block any counter-drops attempts and use your econ advantage to prevail. On March 06 2013 23:09 govie wrote: (...) 1. Do u think it could be viable? 2. If u would try it anyway, how would u engage? (attack sooner with the banshees or marine/medivac, double pronged attack or 1 push)? 3. If for some reason u do see some potential, is there something u would do different? 2-port Banshees are automatically all-in and only playable in TvP. It plays upon the fact Protoss will think 1-1-1 and go Zealots/Sentries/Immortals (thus lacking Stalkers) while generally not having a Stargate to build Phoenixes and scouting your all-in with the Observer too late (if going gate gate robo after expand) to build 4-5 Cannons in front, if he even has a Forge ready. You make only one Barracks (build order goes rax gas Marine reactor gas fact port port lab lab) and attack with SCVs/Marines/4Banshees solely focusing on Stalkers/Sentries (4 Banshees kill Stalkers in 2 shots if Guardian Shield is not active). See jjakji vs Creator, Sanshorn Mists, IPL ToC. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On March 07 2013 00:24 TheDwf wrote: 2-port Banshees are automatically all-in and only playable in TvP. It plays upon the fact Protoss will think 1-1-1 and go Zealots/Sentries/Immortals (thus lacking Stalkers) while generally not having a Stargate to build Phoenixes and scouting your all-in with the Observer too late (if going gate gate robo after expand) to build 4-5 Cannons in front, if he even has a Forge ready. You make only one Barracks (build order goes rax gas Marine reactor gas fact port port lab lab) and attack with SCVs/Marines/4Banshees solely focusing on Stalkers/Sentries (4 Banshees kill Stalkers in 2 shots if Guardian Shield is not active). See jjakji vs Creator, Sanshorn Mists, IPL ToC. I also thought TvP and maybe TvZ also, seeing u pick 2/3 of the marines up and the banshees can take the banelings out (as banelings are allways scary). And against a walloff with many cannons in TvP, i can try the more risky drop in the main, because i can escort the medivacs while dropping with the 4 banshees for more safety. Thx for the replay, gonna watch that! And then practice makes perfect. I'm even gonna try TvT and TvZ just because i need to experience it isn't viable;) Update Just played it 5 times. The buildorder is pretty solid and thight, can't slip up there or you are behind. Taking some scv's really helps, i picked 16 orso. The medivacs heal the scv's that tank, and the scv's repair the medivacs and banshees. I'll play some tonight and update (although it's lower league it doesnt matter, still solid because of the medivacs and stim with the 4 banshees). A winrate of 80% overal all races for a new build to start with isn't that bad, even if it's not masterleague Against P : 1 win 1 loss Against T : 1 win Against Z : 1 win Update 2 Against P : 3 win 2 loss (2 times 5gate) Against T : 3 win 1 loss Against Z : 1 win P and Z are certainly doable. T is more tricky when siegetanks are in play. Thors, mech and MMM are no problem because u have marines, scv's, medivacs and banshees, dps and the healing capabilities are just to good. Against T it's a tactical game of evading there tanks and turrets basically, until he's crippled. Marine/tank is caution advised, but still doable with multiprong attacks. In general : Ofcourse in the lower leagues players are not bounded by the laws of sc2-psychics, because we're not skilled enough to reach the ceiling yet. But still, this build is certainly doable for a lower league player in a lower league to win every matchup. And it's nice to play a non standard build for once which has more options then marine/tank or MMM. No siegelines!!! If i get promoted twice with this build order, ill post some replay's. Seems i found something that fits my playstyle (today).. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On March 07 2013 00:24 TheDwf wrote: See here (last part of the post); the key concepts of the answer to "Q. Are 2 base marine/medivac or marine/medivac/hellion builds viable?" in the OP also stand. Even 2-bases builds can easily defend Hellions/(Marines)/Marauders, see Hack vs DRG, Icarus, Code S RO32; aLive vs Nestea, Icarus, Code S RO32; and aLive vs Vortix, Icarus, Ritmix RSL IV. Even when pulling 30 SCVs Lucifron had not really a landslide victory against Snute in their Ohana game from the Vasacast Invitational. The main problem is precisely that Zergs can hold 2-bases timings while retaining their third, which is why they're abysmal now. You can pressure while going triple OC (Hellions/Banshees and/or Marines/Hellions/Medivac, see answer above to netherDrake), Ver's answer in the OP and what I say only apply to committed bio/Hellions 2-bases timings into third, which is different from whatever pressure you can apply backed up by 3 Orbitals because then you can match Zerg's economy and upgrades. Alternatively you can wait a week and enjoy the rebirth of Reapers and early pressure in TvZ. (; Mvp vs Keen, Daybreak, Code S RO32 featured a similar scenario with the contained player (Keen) disrupting his opponent's play with counter-drops. You don't need your whole army in front of his natural, so keep some troops at home to defend backstab drops; you don't need to stay forever in front of his base either, if the safety valve threatens to explode you can always pack and tell him goodbye from afar. No, if you both Marines/Tanks air transitions do not occur before a long time (i. e. Tank stalemates when both players are on 4+ bases); actually they almost never occur due to the unstable nature of such mirrors (economies swiftly destroyed, base trades). The problem of turtling in Marines/Tanks mirrors should not really exist if you contain him with 3 bases vs 2; in this situation he's the one who has to make something happen, so scout (with Sensor Towers—you can build one behind your contain—and Marines patrolling), block any counter-drops attempts and use your econ advantage to prevail. Thanks, I'll try that out in my next TvZ! On another note, I just got demolished in a TvP by primarily Storms, even with Ghosts in the army I can't seem to get EMPs off on the HT before they land the storms and just vaporize the marines and marauders. Is Ghost Cloak a necessity when going up against HT? Do the EMPs all have to go off before the engagement even begins? It was a very frustrating loss as I was ahead in upgrades and supply but that single engagement cost me the entire game, should I just not attack if Storm is present (if so, what do I transition to) or try to kill Protoss before he can get Storm out? | ||
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ff7legend
United States213 Posts
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PeterHuynh
United States151 Posts
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ognennyy
United States9 Posts
At this point I'd like to drop or double drop harass while leaving my main army out front. When I see other TvPs they make loading up medivacs and moving them into position look seamless and easy. I really trip up at this point however. I cannot seem to find a series of motions that feels natural to my fingers; there's no set pattern I use every single time and therefore I develop no muscle memory of the action. I suppose most of the time the process is something like: 1) I box some units 2) right click the medivac 3) box all units and right click (to remove the effect of marines or marauders, who didn't fit in the medivac, following the medivac around) 4) select loaded medivac 5) move loaded medivac to position 6) while loaded medivac flies, I assign it to one of my harass control group hotkeys 7) re-assign main army, in order to exclude the harass medivac from it. I used to follow the harass medivac, tap main army control group hotkey, shift+click harass medivac to remove from selection, then reassign main army control group. that seemed very inefficient so I no longer do that. Is there a method for quickly breaking off harass groups from the main army that works better than the process I've been using? I'm half wondering if a big part of my problem isn't simply my keyboard layout, and not being used to it yet. A few weeks back I adopted The Core advanced keyboard layout (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341878). I've gotten the hang of it and I love it, however the motion for assigning control groups (entailing hitting ctrl+shift with your thumb) is very unnatural to me. It's complicated even more by the fact that ctrl and shift are modifiers most players use in the process of assigning control groups, in order to select / deselect the units they want. Clearly I need to decide on a set, solid process of clicks and keys, and practice it over and over until it becomes thoughtless. I'd just like to hear what some of you pro Terrans have to say about the most effective process!! Thanks for reading guys. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On March 08 2013 04:25 ognennyy wrote: I suppose most of the time the process is something like: 1) I box some units 2) right click the medivac 3) box all units and right click (to remove the effect of marines or marauders, who didn't fit in the medivac, following the medivac around) You can slightly simplify that by shift-rightclicking first the medivac and then somewhere on the ground. Units that don't fit into the medivac will go to that spot. | ||
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ognennyy
United States9 Posts
On March 08 2013 05:07 blackone wrote: You can slightly simplify that by shift-rightclicking first the medivac and then somewhere on the ground. Units that don't fit into the medivac will go to that spot. Wow, excellent advice thank you!! | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On March 07 2013 08:18 Thezzy wrote: On another note, I just got demolished in a TvP by primarily Storms, even with Ghosts in the army I can't seem to get EMPs off on the HT before they land the storms and just vaporize the marines and marauders. Is Ghost Cloak a necessity when going up against HT? Do the EMPs all have to go off before the engagement even begins? It was a very frustrating loss as I was ahead in upgrades and supply but that single engagement cost me the entire game, should I just not attack if Storm is present (if so, what do I transition to) or try to kill Protoss before he can get Storm out? Cloak is a strong bonus and you should always get it if you can afford it, but you can neutralize Templars without. Yes, EMPing at least the army before the engagement is preferable, otherwise you just have too many things to do when the Zealots start to swarm. Pre-spreading your army and splitting like you would do against Banelings is also essential to mitigate Storm damage. Attacking into defensive Templars is delicate indeed, but of course you can't just stop attacking once your opponent has Storm. On top of the games mentioned in "Q. How to play against Templars?" in the OP, you can watch LucifroN vs Seed, Whirlwind, IPTL LG-IM vs Karont3 for a nice example of forcing a defensive Templar/Cannon position. Ghost micro is one of the hardest aspects of the match-up so it's natural you have troubles. On March 07 2013 09:35 ff7legend wrote: In some TvZ's i have seen many varying basic styles, one is for a player to play greedy and get a quicker 3rd cc so he gets a huge burst in production usually hitting an earlier 2-2 push. The second style I have seen is to apply 2base pressure to hit a zerg that is droning hard, or teching to quickly and disrupt them. This style is followed by a 3rd and a delayed 2-2 push. The last style is what most people would call "standard" where the player plays safely and and minimizes risk and hits the standard 2-2 timing. What are the pro's and con's of each of these style? What is the optimal style to play TvZ (as it pertains to win-rate)? Out of a fast expand, the "first style" i. e. some kind of triple OC opening is the only valid choice and is the standard. 2-bases timings (bio, bio/Hellions or BFH) into third should always lose to correct Zerg reactions; read "Q. Are 2 base marine/medivac or marine/medivac/hellion builds viable?" in the OP. One of the critical problems with 2-bases timings into third is precisely that you're not 2/2 when you have to hit your pre-Hive units timing, which means 2/2 Zerglings on creep have zero troubles bashing your weak 1/1 Marines. See for instance Noblesse vs Bboong, Cloud Kingdom, Up & Down second tiebreaker: Bboong channels his whole Zerglings/Banelings army through a choke in a horrible way and still easily prevails. On March 07 2013 15:52 PeterHuynh wrote: http://drop.sc/309344 was looking for help on how i lost this 30 min tvp, i felt like i was winning the mid game but in the late game fell apart - Bin your build order. If you want something more agressive than gasless 1 rax expand, either play a real 2 rax (YoDa vs Socke, Entombed Valley, IEM Katowice; Bomber vs HerO, Bel'shir Vestige, Up & Down Season 1 2013) as you were originally intending to do, or some kind of Marauder expand with or without Marine before Lab (GuMiho vs HuK, Cloud Kingdom, Code S RO32; GuMiho vs Creator, Cloud Kingdom, IPL Fight Club 46), not the inefficient mixture you used because you were supply blocked when you should have launched your first Marauder. Besides, build your Barracks at the right of the wall: this way the add-on is not part of the wall and you don't need to either lift or build the Barracks two squares towards the left which unnecessarily gives information to the scouting Probe. Last but not least, hide your second rax, he would have seen it had he sacrificed his Probe or simply poked your ramp with a Zealot or a Stalker. - Bin your transition. Factory is too early, and double EB makes no sense at the time you're building them as you barely have enough resources to start two Medivacs, you have like no units and you're still on two gases. - When your Medivacs appear you're 20-25 supply behind a regular 1 rax expand for no reason because of the two aforementioned points. - Use your Factory to scout. You need to check with a Marine or the Factory if he took his third or not. - Don't make a PF on your third. Always OC. Not only do you weaken your economy for no reason, but you will also lack Scans the whole game because of this, which increases the odds to run into surprise Storms or prevent you from having vision at critical moments. - Make more Medivacs (you were lacking them in midgame and at the first main engagement). - Avoid drops in lategame. - Triple Reactor Starport is overkill for Antiga. - Never push further towards Protoss' bases when you narrowly win like that, you will inevitably overextend against reinforcements. After you destroyed his expand you should have tried to reclaim the center instead to secure your fourth mineral line again. On March 08 2013 04:25 ognennyy wrote: Question regarding Terran mechanics; specifically, grouping and regrouping control groups. Say, for example, it's a TvP and I'm putting on standard stim / 2-medivac pressure around 9-10 min. I rally to my army, pressure him a bit but don't commit, and back off. Now my reinforcements and 3rd and 4th medivacs are joining my army as well. At this point I'd like to drop or double drop harass while leaving my main army out front. When I see other TvPs they make loading up medivacs and moving them into position look seamless and easy. I really trip up at this point however. I cannot seem to find a series of motions that feels natural to my fingers; there's no set pattern I use every single time and therefore I develop no muscle memory of the action. While holding shift, 1) ctrl select one Marine 2) ctrl select one Marauder 3) right click the four Medivacs 4) press stop once everything is loaded 5) reassign group 6) ctrl select Medivacs and send them. | ||
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darkphantom
98 Posts
how could i have scouted this and what could i have done ? http://drop.sc/309494 | ||
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ognennyy
United States9 Posts
Watching replays of my games - particularly bioball m/m/m games - I've noticed a trend that not all of my medivacs are healing during an engagement. E.g. my opponent puts on a multi-pronged attack. When I can see that he's committed to engaging my main force, I stim the army and a-move them toward his army, then deal with the smaller force. I'll then double tap my main army to micro there again. In the replays I notice some of the medivacs are healing on the front line of the attack, but some are just kinda sitting around. I'm not positive why this is happening, but I'm guessing it has something to do with having all my marines, marauders, and medivacs on one hotkey and hitting 1-a (to be fair to myself I do make an attempt to get my force into a good position before hitting 1-a so they can get good surface area). Strangely, the medivacs that aren't healing are fairly close to the bio forces taking damage. Any thoughts on how to remedy this? In fact, better question: SHOULD I remedy this? It seems like the obvious answer is yes, because I hate to think I've invested 400 / 400 on 4 medivacs doing nothing. But should I actually be microing my medivacs, or is there a mechanical change in my gameplay I can make that will fix this? Thanks all!! | ||
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