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On February 25 2013 10:27 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 09:17 nomyx wrote:
Does anyone have some good TvZ replays from recently? I just downloaded the Katowice and Iron Squid replay packs but the maps / replays are bugged. No ground visible at all, buildings / units just floating in the air.
Im not gonna link to a rival website, but "Polt vs Coolman" is nice to watch, just type it in google  In thirty minutes, Polt showcases everything that's awesome in the terran race: he splits, he double drops, he kites, he pushes and takes crushing positions while at the same time being the most efficient tumor removal tool known to man. Not that TheCoolMan didn't try hard, on the contrary. Yet all he got from Polt was the finger and a creep line shoved all the way back to his natural.
Wow that was a really great game. Polt's one of my favorite players too, made it even more enjoyable.
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On February 25 2013 08:43 Necosarius wrote:How should I react to a nexus first in TvP when I go 1 rax cc? I usually add a third cc and then make more barracks until I have 4-6 of them before taking gases. But this only feels safe if the protoss is going heavy gateway. What's the usual respond? I don't watch a lot of sc2 and when I do I've never seen a toss go nexus first 
I think the correct response is just to be greedier with the tech (for example double ebay instead of only one) and grab your gas a little bit faster.
You can add a faster third if you see that he is not going for some kind of 2 base all-in, but you won't be able to hold your third if he does.
Correct me if I'm wrong please
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On February 25 2013 11:45 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 08:43 Necosarius wrote:How should I react to a nexus first in TvP when I go 1 rax cc? I usually add a third cc and then make more barracks until I have 4-6 of them before taking gases. But this only feels safe if the protoss is going heavy gateway. What's the usual respond? I don't watch a lot of sc2 and when I do I've never seen a toss go nexus first I think the correct response is just to be greedier with the tech (for example double ebay instead of only one) and grab your gas a little bit faster. You can add a faster third if you see that he is not going for some kind of 2 base all-in, but you won't be able to hold your third if he does. Correct me if I'm wrong please
You don't have to take the third right away, just go 1-rax, CC, CC, then two more rax, double gas, into double e-bays and stim. Factory -> 2 more rax -> Starport. You're already going to be heavily defensive until Medivacs come out, so build as many Bunkers as you can guess you need. Get double Reactor plus your Tech Lab on the initial 3 rax so that you can get a crazy amount of units in case of all-ins, and for the love of god, on the NA server, put down a Turret near your front. Everyone and their brother is going Nexus-first -> DTs -> chargelot/Archon, and DTs are the most obnoxious coinflippy thing that will make you tear your hair out when you forget that turret.
6-7 gate is holdable, 8 gate will be very very tough. Since you have 3OC, feel free to use Scans to help identify what's coming.
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Now i have a question to come up with aswell: I am really wondering if you want 3 or only 2 hotkeys for your army. All the games I check most high-level terran players (e.g. Taeja, Innovation (Bogus)) they only use 2 hotkeys for their army. How do you manage MMM Tank Viking in TvZ and MMM Ghost Viking in TvP with those hotkeys? Dwf I badly want your opinion on this one! Cause one control group more would mean I could finally hotkey my ebays instead of just putting a camera hotkey above
Edit: Yes, I've read Vers quote on that, but it only makes things harder to figure out You need 2 hotkeys at a mimum. 1 for marine/marauder/medivac, 1 for ghost, 1 for viking. You can potentially have another for medivacs, and yet another for dividing the bio force into two.
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Hey all, it's been about 11 months since I've played any Starcraft and just got back into the game on my new machine. I was rank 1 Diamond in season 4 and hovered between low Masters and high Diamond in season 5, before I stopped playing.
I played a few games yesterday, and generally did fine despite being super rusty. But I started browsing forums: does everyone go no gas expand in TvP now if no all-in is scouted? I quit back when probably the most prevalent TvP strategy was reactor rax->techlab rax->1 marauder/5marine pressure->expand. Is this even viable anymore or is the correct reaction to standard toss openings just to go expand/double expand?
I'm so out of touch with metagame, etc., that I will believe anything you tell me.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On February 25 2013 22:34 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
Now i have a question to come up with aswell: I am really wondering if you want 3 or only 2 hotkeys for your army. All the games I check most high-level terran players (e.g. Taeja, Innovation (Bogus)) they only use 2 hotkeys for their army. How do you manage MMM Tank Viking in TvZ and MMM Ghost Viking in TvP with those hotkeys? Dwf I badly want your opinion on this one! Cause one control group more would mean I could finally hotkey my ebays instead of just putting a camera hotkey above
I'm also really curious to how the Terrans I've watched even manage to control an army so well with only 2 hotkeys? I think I would have a HARDER time controlling an army, and I use `,1,2,3 for my army control. (Drops--Bio--Ghost/Mine/Viking--Viking/Tank)
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On February 26 2013 03:05 mau5mat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 22:34 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
Now i have a question to come up with aswell: I am really wondering if you want 3 or only 2 hotkeys for your army. All the games I check most high-level terran players (e.g. Taeja, Innovation (Bogus)) they only use 2 hotkeys for their army. How do you manage MMM Tank Viking in TvZ and MMM Ghost Viking in TvP with those hotkeys? Dwf I badly want your opinion on this one! Cause one control group more would mean I could finally hotkey my ebays instead of just putting a camera hotkey above I'm also really curious to how the Terrans I've watched even manage to control an army so well with only 2 hotkeys? I think I would have a HARDER time controlling an army, and I use `,1,2,3 for my army control. (Drops--Bio--Ghost/Mine/Viking--Viking/Tank)
Expert use of Ctrl+click (or rebind Ctrl 'select all' functionality to an easier key and use that).
For instance, Stim all bio and back up (1 hotkey), Ghost target EMPs, Ctrl+click Vikings and target Colossi. It actually makes some sense since you want Vikings and Ghosts to poach just a little and be ready for EMP/targeting Colossi.
I use 3 hotkeys; 5 = Bio/Medivacs OR Mech main force, 6 = Vikings/SkyTerran, 7 = Spellcasters.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On February 26 2013 04:18 Jazzman88 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 03:05 mau5mat wrote:On February 25 2013 22:34 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
Now i have a question to come up with aswell: I am really wondering if you want 3 or only 2 hotkeys for your army. All the games I check most high-level terran players (e.g. Taeja, Innovation (Bogus)) they only use 2 hotkeys for their army. How do you manage MMM Tank Viking in TvZ and MMM Ghost Viking in TvP with those hotkeys? Dwf I badly want your opinion on this one! Cause one control group more would mean I could finally hotkey my ebays instead of just putting a camera hotkey above I'm also really curious to how the Terrans I've watched even manage to control an army so well with only 2 hotkeys? I think I would have a HARDER time controlling an army, and I use `,1,2,3 for my army control. (Drops--Bio--Ghost/Mine/Viking--Viking/Tank) Expert use of Ctrl+click (or rebind Ctrl 'select all' functionality to an easier key and use that). For instance, Stim all bio and back up (1 hotkey), Ghost target EMPs, Ctrl+click Vikings and target Colossi. It actually makes some sense since you want Vikings and Ghosts to poach just a little and be ready for EMP/targeting Colossi. I use 3 hotkeys; 5 = Bio/Medivacs OR Mech main force, 6 = Vikings/SkyTerran, 7 = Spellcasters.
Yeah, that's what I do, but with separate hotkeys for Bio/Ghost/Viking/Drops (in this TvP scenario), I don't get how less hotkeys can be more efficient (1 - stim, arc, kite, split. 2 - cloak, emp, snipe. 3 - ctrl-click Collosi)
I guess it is just preference?
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On February 26 2013 06:47 mau5mat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 04:18 Jazzman88 wrote:On February 26 2013 03:05 mau5mat wrote:On February 25 2013 22:34 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
Now i have a question to come up with aswell: I am really wondering if you want 3 or only 2 hotkeys for your army. All the games I check most high-level terran players (e.g. Taeja, Innovation (Bogus)) they only use 2 hotkeys for their army. How do you manage MMM Tank Viking in TvZ and MMM Ghost Viking in TvP with those hotkeys? Dwf I badly want your opinion on this one! Cause one control group more would mean I could finally hotkey my ebays instead of just putting a camera hotkey above I'm also really curious to how the Terrans I've watched even manage to control an army so well with only 2 hotkeys? I think I would have a HARDER time controlling an army, and I use `,1,2,3 for my army control. (Drops--Bio--Ghost/Mine/Viking--Viking/Tank) Expert use of Ctrl+click (or rebind Ctrl 'select all' functionality to an easier key and use that). For instance, Stim all bio and back up (1 hotkey), Ghost target EMPs, Ctrl+click Vikings and target Colossi. It actually makes some sense since you want Vikings and Ghosts to poach just a little and be ready for EMP/targeting Colossi. I use 3 hotkeys; 5 = Bio/Medivacs OR Mech main force, 6 = Vikings/SkyTerran, 7 = Spellcasters. Yeah, that's what I do, but with separate hotkeys for Bio/Ghost/Viking/Drops (in this TvP scenario), I don't get how less hotkeys can be more efficient (1 - stim, arc, kite, split. 2 - cloak, emp, snipe. 3 - ctrl-click Collosi) I guess it is just preference?
Easier retreats too. Let's say you get super hardcore flanked by HT and you need to get the hell out of there. Much faster to go 1 click 2 click than 1-2-3 (this of course assuming the spread army is too slow to box and go.
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On February 25 2013 08:43 Necosarius wrote:How should I react to a nexus first in TvP when I go 1 rax cc? I usually add a third cc and then make more barracks until I have 4-6 of them before taking gases. But this only feels safe if the protoss is going heavy gateway. What's the usual respond? I don't watch a lot of sc2 and when I do I've never seen a toss go nexus first
More than 4 rax before gas after double expand is overkill and will delay your tech too much for no gain, the standard follow-up is just rax rax gas gas. If you scout it in time, try Bunker pressure with your first Marines and either proceed as usual or double expand. I don't like going autopilot third + dual EBs since you can easily be coinflipped by 5+ gates, and some Protoss are more than willing to gamble on this kind of predictable answer from their Terran opponents. You can also try 4 rax Marine pressure, capitalizing on the fact Warpgate is delayed by approximatively one minut (at equal chronoboost count), possibly with an early third depending on how things go with the presure. Of course, if you happened to 1 rax CC behind an early walloff, deny scouting for the longest possible time to keep him uncomfortable.
On February 24 2013 05:57 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:
Is bomber's style of TvZ, where one goes for hellions but no banshees into a third, recommended?
Basically it's greedier, trading some safety for earlier econ/tech, so if Zerg does not do anything agressive you're in a better spot but you have a (much) worse game against tier1 agression such as 8+ Roach pressure, 25+ Speedlings attack or Roach Baneling busts.
On February 25 2013 22:34 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:Now i have a question to come up with aswell: I am really wondering if you want 3 or only 2 hotkeys for your army. All the games I check most high-level terran players (e.g. Taeja, Innovation (Bogus)) they only use 2 hotkeys for their army. How do you manage MMM Tank Viking in TvZ and MMM Ghost Viking in TvP with those hotkeys? Dwf I badly want your opinion on this one! Cause one control group more would mean I could finally hotkey my ebays instead of just putting a camera hotkey above Edit: Yes, I've read Vers quote on that, but it only makes things harder to figure out Show nested quote + You need 2 hotkeys at a mimum. 1 for marine/marauder/medivac, 1 for ghost, 1 for viking. You can potentially have another for medivacs, and yet another for dividing the bio force into two.
Personally I only use one hotkey for Marines/Marauders/Medivacs/Tanks in TvT/Z as I am used to manage Tanks with tab, but the most common setup is probably to have MMM on one (manually selecting Marines on screen with ctrl when you want to run away with them while leaving Marauders in front to shield/wall) and Tanks on their own hotkey. Unless you have a low Viking count having them on their own hotkey is also better so you can select them quickly to hit & run, focus and/or split.
Fairly sure it's a typo (or severe maths issues??) and Ver meant 3 hotkeys for TvP. Personally I could not manage TvP with only 2 when I have both Ghosts and Vikings, but some people like Kas (if I remember correctly) use only 2. I think 3 is superior as not being able to select only Ghosts or only Vikings in the fastest possible way feels awkward given the rabid rhythm of TvP mid/lategame fights.
On February 26 2013 02:01 upperbound wrote:
I played a few games yesterday, and generally did fine despite being super rusty. But I started browsing forums: does everyone go no gas expand in TvP now if no all-in is scouted? I quit back when probably the most prevalent TvP strategy was reactor rax->techlab rax->1 marauder/5marine pressure->expand. Is this even viable anymore or is the correct reaction to standard toss openings just to go expand/double expand?
1 rax expand is indeed the main build for a long time, 2 rax Reactor first is very rare nowadays as it was too much weakened by maps (longer travel distance, secondary ramps, extinction of the wide open naturals) and the fact that, over time, people naturally get better at handling agressive openings.
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Around the corner with just another question on hotkeys. I've been experimenting a bit lately regarding production hotkeys. I've seen Polt and some other koreans like to bind each of their first 3 command centers to a single hotkey (say: 7, 8, 9) make a group of all CCs (0) then have rax ract starport ebay on each seperate keys (3, 4, 5, 6) and 2 keys for army (1, 2)
I am aware that probably some the stuff is bound to sth else for example 0 = space and 9 = Q is very popular, but that is not the point here anyways.
Some other players just have all orbitals in one group. The way I say Polt playing though is tapping through his CCs constantly so he always has the camera centered above one and just keeps rotating. I really liked that style, cause you feel that it makes your macro smoother and you can check energy / production on the orbitals opposed to the all on one key.
On the other hand it feels a bit clumsy, because you can not use it like a camera key. (For example if you want to build something near one of your CCs your will select it if you use those hotkeys to get there, which sucks.)
What I've done next is binding 3 camera hotkeys that I center above my orbitals and go only with all CC in one group. It feels nice for bulding stuff, but not as smooth for macro. And I have more than 2 control groups for army. (There lays the reason for my initial question on army hotkeys)
Do you know what other people (in this case high-level Koreans) do?
I want to make sure my hotkeys are setup decent at first, because I am new to playing this game. (I've watched for 1 year and bought it at the start of the this month. I am EU dia on WOL right now, but I'm hardly playing any ladder, just A.I. or custom games, because im trying to figure out a good setup that i can get used to.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On February 26 2013 09:16 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
Around the corner with just another question on hotkeys. I've been experimenting a bit lately regarding production hotkeys. I've seen Polt and some other koreans like to bind each of their first 3 command centers to a single hotkey (say: 7, 8, 9) make a group of all CCs (0) then have rax ract starport ebay on each seperate keys (3, 4, 5, 6) and 2 keys for army (1, 2)
I am aware that probably some the stuff is bound to sth else for example 0 = space and 9 = Q is very popular, but that is not the point here anyways.
Some other players just have all orbitals in one group. The way I say Polt playing though is tapping through his CCs constantly so he always has the camera centered above one and just keeps rotating. I really liked that style, cause you feel that it makes your macro smoother and you can check energy / production on the orbitals opposed to the all on one key.
On the other hand it feels a bit clumsy, because you can not use it like a camera key. (For example if you want to build something near one of your CCs your will select it if you use those hotkeys to get there, which sucks.)
What I've done next is binding 3 camera hotkeys that I center above my orbitals and go only with all CC in one group. It feels nice for bulding stuff, but not as smooth for macro. And I have more than 2 control groups for army. (There lays the reason for my initial question on army hotkeys)
Do you know what other people (in this case high-level Koreans) do?
I want to make sure my hotkeys are setup decent at first, because I am new to playing this game. (I've watched for 1 year and bought it at the start of the this month. I am EU dia on WOL right now, but I'm hardly playing any ladder, just A.I. or custom games, because im trying to figure out a good setup that i can get used to.
MKP and some other Terrans I have watched put all Port/Fac/Rax on 4 and All CC's on 5
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How do I beat a zerg with high numbers of banelings, like over 30, when they play ling/muta? I feel like my tanks just get overwhelmed, and I can't possibly split enough to beat those numbers. Here is a replay: http://drop.sc/307176
Things I noticed:
My 2/2 was late and my 3/3 was not started I do not get +1 vehicle weapons.
I don't start a second factory
I don't scout my opponent's fifth base
I float over 1000 minerals at some points, although I feel like despite this, I macro better than my opponent. I take a fight with 2/2 of mine to his 2/0 yet I am still crushed in the battle. We are both near max. Can I get some help here?
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In tvp, what's the best way to hold off a gateway + forge in your base? I was able to beat it by keeping the zealots away from my mineral line and delaying the cannons as much as i could before morphing my CC into a planetary, but there's got to be a better way to hold if off. Even if you scout it late (as in see it a little before the gateway and forge is about to complete). My opponent could have easily put cannons in a position to prevent gas mining. Against toss, I really don't like scouting early; all i really look for is whether or not he takes an expo. Is this a habit I'll have to change?
Edit: here's the replay for ppl to point out my mistakes. I'm pretty sure pulling all my scvs near the beginning was a bad idea.
http://drop.sc/307197
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On February 26 2013 20:22 halpimcat wrote:In tvp, what's the best way to hold off a gateway + forge in your base? I was able to beat it by keeping the zealots away from my mineral line and delaying the cannons as much as i could before morphing my CC into a planetary, but there's got to be a better way to hold if off. Even if you scout it late (as in see it a little before the gateway and forge is about to complete). My opponent could have easily put cannons in a position to prevent gas mining. Against toss, I really don't like scouting early; all i really look for is whether or not he takes an expo. Is this a habit I'll have to change? Edit: here's the replay for ppl to point out my mistakes. I'm pretty sure pulling all my scvs near the beginning was a bad idea. http://drop.sc/307197
Bunker in the front so it protects your CC, make and Orbital it boosts your income a lot. Don't go ebay. Get Mauradeurs + Concussive (put your Rax behind your mineral line if necessary. Don't pull SCVs at the start).
Also you would've seen it earlier if you make the standard wall at your ramp (there is actually close to no reason not to do that).
Apart from that depot placement overall was good, I liked it.
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On February 26 2013 22:26 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 20:22 halpimcat wrote:In tvp, what's the best way to hold off a gateway + forge in your base? I was able to beat it by keeping the zealots away from my mineral line and delaying the cannons as much as i could before morphing my CC into a planetary, but there's got to be a better way to hold if off. Even if you scout it late (as in see it a little before the gateway and forge is about to complete). My opponent could have easily put cannons in a position to prevent gas mining. Against toss, I really don't like scouting early; all i really look for is whether or not he takes an expo. Is this a habit I'll have to change? Edit: here's the replay for ppl to point out my mistakes. I'm pretty sure pulling all my scvs near the beginning was a bad idea. http://drop.sc/307197 Bunker in the front so it protects your CC, make and Orbital it boosts your income a lot. Don't go ebay. Get Mauradeurs + Concussive (put your Rax behind your mineral line if necessary. Don't pull SCVs at the start). Also you would've seen it earlier if you make the standard wall at your ramp (there is actually close to no reason not to do that). Apart from that depot placement overall was good, I liked it.
Wouldn't a bunker just die to overwhelming zealot pressure? I thought unless it hugs the mineral line too many zealots will kill it, and I'll be unable to defend with a paltry amount of marines. At that time I won't have marauders either (definitely don't want to spend 30 seconds making a tech lab when I could be making an extra marine). Either way I didn't want to rely on bunkers because he could decide to cannon anywhere.
I don't wall off at my ramp because a 2gating toss could sneak a probe in even before I start my depot (depending on the map). The barracks placement is really a pre-emptive reaction to potential 2-gate.
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It's only 1 gate, you won't be facing that many zealots. Anyway if you get your SCV in place he can't get surface area. Or use your rax to help wall the bunker off.
You know where he is going to cannon because you see the pylon going down.
You can put your depot at the ramp and still make your rax near your cc if you like.
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On February 27 2013 07:34 Willzzz wrote:
It's only 1 gate, you won't be facing that many zealots. Anyway if you get your SCV in place he can't get surface area. Or use your rax to help wall the bunker off.
You know where he is going to cannon because you see the pylon going down.
You can put your depot at the ramp and still make your rax near your cc if you like.
Thanks, that makes sense. I've been seeing a lot of two gate proxy recently, so I probably got confused when i responded with the "overwhelming zealot" reply.
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Zerg does bane bust when I 1rax FE or 1/1/1 what to do?
I don't know how to defense bane bust.
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EPT
