EPTwhat is this opening and how do i stop it?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 453
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
what is this opening and how do i stop it? | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On February 17 2013 07:24 suicideyear wrote: TvT - http://drop.sc/305144 what is this opening and how do i stop it? First, what a waste of my time watching this. Now, to answer your question : 1. Put your naturalbase at the sweet spot for better eco; 2. Scouting around your base doesnt hurt against a terran or a protos, because they can proxy. 2nd, if u dont see an early expo, u know something up. and need to fend off there attack. Solved  | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
You have loads of money banked, just try to build everything sooner. While I often build my rax close to my CC I then float it nearer the edge while it isn't producing. Or at least build something there to spot for drops etc. Also if you are in a situation where you can't really defend your main just move your scv and cc to your natural and defend with your bunker. Bunkers can defend from both things below the ramp and things above the ramp! | ||
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PeterHuynh
United States151 Posts
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PeterHuynh
United States151 Posts
hey guys I was wondering if anybody can help me out by watching this contain in tvt i just played, for some reason contains really help me feel hopeless its like i cant even do shit just sitting on two bases the whole time http://drop.sc/304840 Why are you building your CC and your Bunker on high ground? His scouting SCV saw no gas, so just build on natural. Make a Reactor on Barracks with the 50 gas following the Factory, the Factory will make its own Tech Lab if necessary. Don't scan at 5'10, it kills your economy. EB/Turret too early; Banshee is out at 6'30, so you don't need to start your Turret at 6'08. If you want to go mech, prefer Hellions/Vikings first (generally with a Raven afterwards) instead of Tanks; early Tanks are generally horrible for mech (unless they're really forced, say by something like proxy Tanks), because they make you passive and delay your infrastructure/upgrades. With Hellions you go take his Tower and hit & run when he moves out, then when he reaches your natural you can pull SCVs if necessary to comfortably massacre his weakeaned Marines/Tanks force before he sieges. If you stick to the Tanks option to defend his push, then be sure to continuously build Marines from the Reactor Barracks and Vikings from your Starport, this way you will be able to prevent him from containing you since you can meet him in front of your base with Marines/Tanks/Vikings and win the fight. After that, you add a third, extra Factories and one or two Armories. thank you sir i will definitely keep this in mind | ||
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PeterHuynh
United States151 Posts
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
Can you give me a solid TvZ opener with CC first? As in getting siege tanks later. I watched Flash's game vs Jaedong on Cloud Kingdom. (Up&Down Group A) Flash lost. He had his siege mode way too late. But it looked like he was overthrown of Bling/Muta/Ling. Do you recommend Mech or Bio vs Z when going tanks? (Tank+Marines or Tank + other mech units) Flash got his 3rd CC pretty early (around 7:00) | ||
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darkphantom
98 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251694¤tpage=452#9035 i am in need of your deep wisdom master  | ||
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ghostH27
15 Posts
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DBS
515 Posts
On February 19 2013 09:24 ghostH27 wrote: Why isn't marauder good in TvT? In Bio-mech vs Bio-mech it doesn't see much use because its bad vs. marines (no bonus damage). It is obviously not included in mech because it isn't mech and would require seperate upgrades. However, it is very important to have a good marauder count when playing w/ bio-mech vs mech because they are good vs tanks. tl;dr: It isn't bad in biomech vs. mech but otherwise it is. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
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TDH
Finland25 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On February 19 2013 15:24 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Sometimes in professional standard TvZ games where the T goes for a 2/2 timing with 3OC I see the T move out when the 2/2 upgrades are only halfway done. Why is this? What is the purpose? I don't see any timing being exploited here or any particular weakness in the zerg at this time. On February 19 2013 16:36 TDH wrote: You try to get good position on the map. It's also for denying creep, so its easier to engage when 2-2 finish. I agree with both U want to engage when 2/2 is finished and have an advantage, the more time it takes to engage after 2/2, the less effective it probably will be. So, players tend to overextend a bit, which in turn sometimes bites in there bottoms because zerg is fast on creep it's a risk/gain kinda gamble. The players that dont wait till 2/2 must have a great winrate with being 20 seconds earlier with there push or else they would wait. Players that have bad experiences with push before 2/2, well they play it safer. Im guessing, the better the mechanics of the player, the earlier they tend to push, because they can fall back on there skills more then mediocre players. | ||
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halpimcat
215 Posts
http://drop.sc/305747 Admittedly I was being greedy in the beginning with 1 bunker in my natural, but I had 3 by the time he attacked with a huge gateway timing. Should I start scanning his base at a certain time? If so, when and what to look for? It seems so hit or miss with the ease protoss has with hiding tech. No way a small/medium pack of marines could have held that with 5 bunkers and most my scvs pulled, I think. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
What do you guys do? Or is it just personal preference? | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On February 19 2013 20:19 dynwar7 wrote: When you do drops especially 2x drops, do you use hotkeys? I saw MMA do double drops..without hotkeys, so he must have done it clicking on the minimap. What do you guys do? Or is it just personal preference? Let's say I have 4 Medivacs in a TvP, and sufficient bio to go in all of them. I first find the Observer near my army, and kill it. Then, load up all 4 Medivacs and station any remaining units near his front. I select two Medivacs, waypoint them on the minimap, and hit the drop hotkey in the mineral line of my choice. I then repeat those steps selecting the next two Medivacs. If my timing is good, both groups hit at similar times, though one slightly before the other. In that case, what I do is watch the minimap, and when the first group is getting close, I click on the minimap to that spot, and use the D+Click trick to drop while the Medivacs are moving. Repeat with Medivac group two. Then it's a matter of bouncing back and forth using minimap clicks to micro each drop. If you're real flashy, take your leftover units at the front and run them in for bonus damage where his defenses have pulled away from. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On February 19 2013 19:33 halpimcat wrote: What happened in this game? How should I have gone about it better? http://drop.sc/305747 Admittedly I was being greedy in the beginning with 1 bunker in my natural, but I had 3 by the time he attacked with a huge gateway timing. Should I start scanning his base at a certain time? If so, when and what to look for? It seems so hit or miss with the ease protoss has with hiding tech. No way a small/medium pack of marines could have held that with 5 bunkers and most my scvs pulled, I think. Here we go! First ill say what i thought was good, after that ill say what u could do better! I only watched till 11 minutes because u lost allready. What was good 1. SCV production was good! Around 50 scv's at 10 minutes; 2. U werent greedy, only built more bunkers then 1 if needed. 3. If u dont know what hes doing, scan at 6:20 between expo and main, so u know he expanded and see some tech. Atleast the scan gives u information if u are not controlling the map to scout with a unit(s). What u could have done better 1. U were piling up money whole game! Ill bet u wanted to buy a nice swimmingpool for your marines or something If u had spend the minerals on troops u would have had : combatshield+conc. shells+8 extra marauders.5:00 --> 200 minerals 6:00 --> 200 minerals 7:00 --> 650 minerals 8:00 --> 650 minerals 9:00 --> 700 minerals 9:30 --> 1.000 minerals 2. When u build a techlab, use it besides stim, also for combatshield and concussive shells and marauders 3. If u pull scv's for repair, i like to place them behind the bunker and not infront. I dont like loosing scv's. General If u build 2 extra add on your 3 rax earlier (i build 1 add on at a time and let 2 rax producing troops), u will have spend nearly all minerals at ten minutes and will have concusive shell and combatshield upgrade asswell before 10 minutes. Also, against protos build 2 techlabs for marauder production and 1 reactor for marines. Research everything in the techlabs aside the +1attack. Your unit composition was a bit off, u had 1 marauder and 20 marines or something. More marauders is better against protos then marines and if u need ghost in the future, u have the infrastructure to do so! Good luck, govie | ||
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halpimcat
215 Posts
On February 20 2013 00:50 govie wrote: Here we go! First ill say what i thought was good, after that ill say what u could do better! I only watched till 11 minutes because u lost allready. What was good 1. SCV production was good! Around 50 scv's at 10 minutes; 2. U werent greedy, only built more bunkers then 1 if needed. 3. If u dont know what hes doing, scan at 6:20 between expo and main, so u know he expanded and see some tech. Atleast the scan gives u information if u are not controlling the map to scout with a unit(s). What u could have done better 1. U were piling up money whole game! Ill bet u wanted to buy a nice swimmingpool for your marines or something If u had spend the minerals on troops u would have had : combatshield+conc. shells+8 extra marauders.5:00 --> 200 minerals 6:00 --> 200 minerals 7:00 --> 650 minerals 8:00 --> 650 minerals 9:00 --> 700 minerals 9:30 --> 1.000 minerals 2. When u build a techlab, use it besides stim, also for combatshield and concussive shells and marauders 3. If u pull scv's for repair, i like to place them behind the bunker and not infront. I dont like loosing scv's. General If u build 2 extra add on your 3 rax earlier (i build 1 add on at a time and let 2 rax producing troops), u will have spend nearly all minerals at ten minutes and will have concusive shell and combatshield upgrade asswell before 10 minutes. Also, against protos build 2 techlabs for marauder production and 1 reactor for marines. Research everything in the techlabs aside the +1attack. Your unit composition was a bit off, u had 1 marauder and 20 marines or something. More marauders is better against protos then marines and if u need ghost in the future, u have the infrastructure to do so! Good luck, govie Yeah I was definitely pooling money now that I look back at the replay. Don't really know what was up with that. I was using my go-to build for tvp, Bomber's build which delays the 2nd tech labs and reactor for ~30 seconds to a minute for a stronger midgame army, but I'm thinking of testing that thought and adjusting the build for now. I'd have no problem doing what you said to do anyways, but I saw no reason to change the build up to defend a push like that because I didn't see it until his army was on my side of the map. And I saw his expo building which is why i didnt scan that game; my main problem is defending 2 base shenanigans, mostly brute force pushes at the front with pure gates or immortals. Anyways I'll try fidgeting around with extra add-ons earlier. Any thoughts? BTW diamond in Korea, formerly masters before I ran out of luck. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On February 20 2013 02:05 halpimcat wrote: Yeah I was definitely pooling money now that I look back at the replay. Don't really know what was up with that. I was using my go-to build for tvp, Bomber's build which delays the 2nd tech labs and reactor for ~30 seconds to a minute for a stronger midgame army, but I'm thinking of testing that thought and adjusting the build for now. I'd have no problem doing what you said to do anyways, but I saw no reason to change the build up to defend a push like that because I didn't see it until his army was on my side of the map. And I saw his expo building which is why i didnt scan that game; my main problem is defending 2 base shenanigans, mostly brute force pushes at the front with pure gates or immortals. Anyways I'll try fidgeting around with extra add-ons earlier. Any thoughts? BTW diamond in Korea, formerly masters before I ran out of luck. Well, u can play any buildorder/armycompo u want if it normally works for u , biggest mistake was indeed the the lack of spending. Im not daimond, only silver EU^^ but i analyze more then i actually play and watch alot of the pro's play. I had lots of problems with P-pushes too until i used mr. llamma winning with ease video to count the bunkers needed to stop 1base/2base all-ins. If u can hold a immortal-sentry all in and a 4gate, u can hold basically anything in between aslong as u know its comming, seeing your play u allways take watchtower ans probarly scout frequent, so for u the same way of defending could work. Just count whats comming and build bunkers accordingly. And after medi's are out u get mapcontrol for sure so the bunkers are salvageablep.s. tvp is my best matchup, guessing 80% or higher after learning to defend the P-allins based on the number of bunkers, its the damn zerg i really hate playing against | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On February 20 2013 00:36 Jazzman88 wrote: Let's say I have 4 Medivacs in a TvP, and sufficient bio to go in all of them. I first find the Observer near my army, and kill it. Then, load up all 4 Medivacs and station any remaining units near his front. I select two Medivacs, waypoint them on the minimap, and hit the drop hotkey in the mineral line of my choice. I then repeat those steps selecting the next two Medivacs. If my timing is good, both groups hit at similar times, though one slightly before the other. In that case, what I do is watch the minimap, and when the first group is getting close, I click on the minimap to that spot, and use the D+Click trick to drop while the Medivacs are moving. Repeat with Medivac group two. Then it's a matter of bouncing back and forth using minimap clicks to micro each drop. If you're real flashy, take your leftover units at the front and run them in for bonus damage where his defenses have pulled away from. Ah, so you prefer to use minimap clicks instead of hotkeying drops? I guess its personal preference | ||
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