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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On January 24 2013 09:20 Irre wrote:
So i lose every single TvZ despite usually being pretty ahead into the mid/ or late game with some form of attacks/better macro/harass etc. I drop a decent amount to kill off bases, esp when they are on T3, i try to draw them out of position and transition to more tanks/thors and marauders as the game goes late. Despite all that, they just 1a with ling infestor ultra and win every game. I usually am spread out. try to have as much hitting as possible. is there any kind of army that can compete wtih that? At diamond level I woudl rather face broods bc at elast i can try to use air and ravens and stuff, but against ultra the only thing i see that can win is them attackinginto a tiny choke with ultras with a giant terran concave at the top, is to have godly micro. I'm so sick of losing please tell me what I am supposed to do after my 3rd is up and running to stop this ultra army bc other than them falling apart to drops adn not just 1A into me before they are maxxed, i dont see it. I honestly am at the poitn of just leaving every time i get a TvZ.
Got a replay?
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On January 24 2013 09:20 Irre wrote:
So i lose every single TvZ despite usually being pretty ahead into the mid/ or late game with some form of attacks/better macro/harass etc. I drop a decent amount to kill off bases, esp when they are on T3, i try to draw them out of position and transition to more tanks/thors and marauders as the game goes late. Despite all that, they just 1a with ling infestor ultra and win every game. I usually am spread out. try to have as much hitting as possible. is there any kind of army that can compete wtih that? At diamond level I woudl rather face broods bc at elast i can try to use air and ravens and stuff, but against ultra the only thing i see that can win is them attackinginto a tiny choke with ultras with a giant terran concave at the top, is to have godly micro. I'm so sick of losing please tell me what I am supposed to do after my 3rd is up and running to stop this ultra army bc other than them falling apart to drops adn not just 1A into me before they are maxxed, i dont see it. I honestly am at the poitn of just leaving every time i get a TvZ.
1. Maybe too many vikings and workers that eat supply in late game.
2. Ultralisks have alot of bonusdamage to armored units. The Marauder has armour. Also, zerglings are pretty strong against marauders. Maybe switching to marines (or hellions) would be better in this composition.
If liquipedia is up to date, marine (hellion)/thor/tank could crush that ling/infestor/ultralisk army, because ling and ultralisk are less effective against marines (or hellions) then against marauders. So the damage output of the zerg army decreases because u unarmored urself But someone with a bit more experience should confirm this.
But if u want to stick to your composition, in this similar thread bout ultralisks was a post by vangarde that could be helpfull. Its about army control : which units to focusfire and which not.
On October 07 2010 08:53 VanGarde wrote:
Then tank/thor/bio will do fine against ultras, just don't fight them in an awkward spot and most importantly FOCUS FIRE.
I cannot stress enough how important it is to focus fire ultralisks in a battle. They do soo much damage and they have soo much hp that if your units are shooting all of the ultras at the same time you won't stand a chance. You will just end up with a post battle scene of 10 ultras all at red health, and zero terran units. Ideally you should let your tanks shoot whatever the hell they like and then have your thors and marauders focus fire ultras, while keeping separate control groups or just selecting in battle to not have ALL of those units focus fire the same ultralisks.
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Question about TvP and Oracles in HOTS:
1 rax fe into 3 rax, starport, +1 2 medivac timing vs gate, core, nexus, stargate, gate, gate (or 1 base oracle: gate, core, starport, gate, gate)
It seems that the starport drops ~5:00, 1st oracle pops ~6:45. The timings could be a bit slower in our games compared to higher levels (I'm dia T and my buddy is low masters P). Normally I would do a scan ~9:00-9:30 to see what tech P is going for. That is way to late to turret mineral lines as a response. Scanning ~6:00 is to early to see which tech path P is going (I think?)
So, what do you do? I don't think blind turreting both mineral lines is the proper way to play. Dropping 2 scans before 10 minutes seems excessive, but is that just something you have to do? Or, is it better to just blind turret since 2 scans costs more than 2 blind turrets?
Do you think 2 blind turrets in the mineral lines is going to be the difference between winning and losing vs (robo/blink/6 or 8 gateway) aggression early? I'm of the opinion that those 2 extra turrets are going to be a game ending decision if you guess wrong. How are you guys scouting and defending against oracles right now? What should I be doing, and how should I be doing it?
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When is the best time to get your second factory vs Zerg? 3rd base or earlier? Also is there ever a time when 1 factory is enough? Thank you
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On January 24 2013 09:20 Irre wrote:
So i lose every single TvZ despite usually being pretty ahead into the mid/ or late game with some form of attacks/better macro/harass etc. I drop a decent amount to kill off bases, esp when they are on T3, i try to draw them out of position and transition to more tanks/thors and marauders as the game goes late. Despite all that, they just 1a with ling infestor ultra and win every game. I usually am spread out. try to have as much hitting as possible. is there any kind of army that can compete wtih that? At diamond level I woudl rather face broods bc at elast i can try to use air and ravens and stuff, but against ultra the only thing i see that can win is them attackinginto a tiny choke with ultras with a giant terran concave at the top, is to have godly micro. I'm so sick of losing please tell me what I am supposed to do after my 3rd is up and running to stop this ultra army bc other than them falling apart to drops adn not just 1A into me before they are maxxed, i dont see it. I honestly am at the poitn of just leaving every time i get a TvZ.
Replay(s) needed; assuming you have equal upgrades, a slightly larger army size and an appropriate biomech mix, it comes down to micro/engagement.
On January 24 2013 11:08 govie wrote:1. Maybe too many vikings and workers that eat supply in late game. 2. Ultralisks have alot of bonusdamage to armored units. The Marauder has armour. Also, zerglings are pretty strong against marauders. Maybe switching to marines (or hellions) would be better in this composition. If liquipedia is up to date, marine/thor/tank would crush that ling/infestor/ultralisk army, because ling and ultralisk are less effective against marines (or hellions) then against marauders. So the damage output of the zerg army decreases because u unarmored urself But someone with a bit more experience should confirm this.
It's true that Ultralisks kill Marauders fast, but they slaughter everything fast anyway and stimmed Marines die in 3 attacks just like stimmed Marauders, the difference being firepower: assuming full upgrades in both sides 2 supply of Marines = 10.5 dps against Ultralisks while 2 supply of Marauder = 20 dps. Of course you still make Marines to shield and deal with Zerglings, but damage-wise Marauders are much better against Ultralisks (especially if Zerg is 3/3 while you're 2/2, which happens frequently in early lategame), which is why you mix them in to focus Ultralisks.
Hellions are used for meat shield and to kill Zerglings when meching, you don't make them if you biomech.
On January 24 2013 11:19 Joedaddy wrote:
Question about TvP and Oracles in HOTS:
It would probably be better to ask in the HotS section, try here.
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against protoss on the map cloud kingdom (for example) where would be a good area to engage protoss who has mass collossi?
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Hi guys,
I'm just getting back into the game. It's been a long time since I've played on ladder, so I'm trying to catch up on the game state these days and working on build orders for each race.
I had a question on TvZ. I was wondering if the 2-rax is still a viable option against zerg. I think I had a pretty good 2-rax build with a 3-tank siege push around 9-10 minutes. Would that still have the same potency as it used to?
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On January 24 2013 13:37 azngamer828 wrote:
against protoss on the map cloud kingdom (for example) where would be a good area to engage protoss who has mass collossi?
generally if you have the viking count, you'll want to engage by some space terrain so your vikings can get some potshots off
without the stalkers getting too much room to blink under
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On January 24 2013 15:52 enigmaticcam wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm just getting back into the game. It's been a long time since I've played on ladder, so I'm trying to catch up on the game state these days and working on build orders for each race.
I had a question on TvZ. I was wondering if the 2-rax is still a viable option against zerg. I think I had a pretty good 2-rax build with a 3-tank siege push around 9-10 minutes. Would that still have the same potency as it used to?
proxy 2 rax? proxy 2 rax still works, but zergs are a lot better at defending it, if you have good micro, you can still punish greedy zergs
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wondering where i can get up to date replay packs of bomber gumiho mma etc
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How would one defend against a 2 base 8 gate blink with a few sentries mixed in?
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Is it much more economical to put my 3rd CC immediately at my 3rd minerals instead of having it in base pumping SCV to natural and/or main?
How much difference is it in income?
NB: Considering opponent does not attack.
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On January 24 2013 21:20 KAB00000000M wrote:
Is it much more economical to put my 3rd CC immediately at my 3rd minerals instead of having it in base pumping SCV to natural and/or main?
How much difference is it in income?
NB: Considering opponent does not attack.
If the opponent doesn't attack you surely could place it right away. But obviously, if your opponent sees your third down that early he will attack and deny it. Just pump some SCVs and put it down when you have an army capable of defending it, and then transfer SCVs.
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If you are confident you can throw down your third CC at the third's location without losing it to pressure, do it straight away.
Not only can you enforce that position shortly thereafter by morphing the CC into a Planetary Fortress but you can get your 5th and 6th gas up, which at that point is likely more crucial than having more minerals.
That said, if there is some pressure from your opponent or the opponent has not taken the third yet, you can always choose to build the CC safely in your main and just pump SCVs out of it until it is safe to fly it over.
Obviously if you want your third to be a PF, you can't morph the CC to an Orbital in your base (but you can still produce SCVs out of it).
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On January 24 2013 22:05 Thezzy wrote:
If you are confident you can throw down your third CC at the third's location without losing it to pressure, do it straight away.
Not only can you enforce that position shortly thereafter by morphing the CC into a Planetary Fortress but you can get your 5th and 6th gas up, which at that point is likely more crucial than having more minerals.
That said, if there is some pressure from your opponent or the opponent has not taken the third yet, you can always choose to build the CC safely in your main and just pump SCVs out of it until it is safe to fly it over.
Obviously if you want your third to be a PF, you can't morph the CC to an Orbital in your base (but you can still produce SCVs out of it).
Pretty sure you don't want your third base to be a PF..
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On January 24 2013 22:05 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 21:20 KAB00000000M wrote:
Is it much more economical to put my 3rd CC immediately at my 3rd minerals instead of having it in base pumping SCV to natural and/or main?
How much difference is it in income?
NB: Considering opponent does not attack. If the opponent doesn't attack you surely could place it right away. But obviously, if your opponent sees your third down that early he will attack and deny it. Just pump some SCVs and put it down when you have an army capable of defending it, and then transfer SCVs.
I thought I made myself clear by writing this:
"NB: Considering opponent does not attack."
I am only interested in the economic advantage/difference of placing right away vs after.
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On January 24 2013 22:54 KAB00000000M wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 22:05 Henk wrote:On January 24 2013 21:20 KAB00000000M wrote:
Is it much more economical to put my 3rd CC immediately at my 3rd minerals instead of having it in base pumping SCV to natural and/or main?
How much difference is it in income?
NB: Considering opponent does not attack. If the opponent doesn't attack you surely could place it right away. But obviously, if your opponent sees your third down that early he will attack and deny it. Just pump some SCVs and put it down when you have an army capable of defending it, and then transfer SCVs. I thought I made myself clear by writing this: "NB: Considering opponent does not attack." I am only interested in the economic advantage/difference of placing right away vs after.
Yeah. You're theorycrafting, obviously it's more economical to land it straight away, it doesn't take a genius to realise mining from 3 bases is better than mining from 2 oversaturated ones. It's also more economical to go into 6 CC before making any units NB considering opponent does not attack.
Doesn't mean it's viable.
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On January 25 2013 00:05 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 22:54 KAB00000000M wrote:On January 24 2013 22:05 Henk wrote:On January 24 2013 21:20 KAB00000000M wrote:
Is it much more economical to put my 3rd CC immediately at my 3rd minerals instead of having it in base pumping SCV to natural and/or main?
How much difference is it in income?
NB: Considering opponent does not attack. If the opponent doesn't attack you surely could place it right away. But obviously, if your opponent sees your third down that early he will attack and deny it. Just pump some SCVs and put it down when you have an army capable of defending it, and then transfer SCVs. I thought I made myself clear by writing this: "NB: Considering opponent does not attack." I am only interested in the economic advantage/difference of placing right away vs after. Yeah. You're theorycrafting, obviously it's more economical to land it straight away, it doesn't take a genius to realise mining from 3 bases is better than mining from 2 oversaturated ones. It's also more economical to go into 6 CC before making any units NB considering opponent does not attack. Doesn't mean it's viable.
He was clearly just asking for some guage of how much more economical it is, and therefore whether it should be attempted when possible. Don't totally dismiss his question just because you misunderstood it at first.
Its economically beneficial enough to be worth doing if you can protect it. Personally I only do it if I see my opponent making a similarly greedy play, so I can be absolutely sure I am safe (eg gasless zerg goes fast 3rd, my hellions and banshees give me map control enough vs speedless lings to build my own 3rd on location).
Better to get input from somebody who really knows what they are talking about though.
You can also try ThorZaIN's stream, and watch for when and how he does this. He likes to play economically greedy and will build his 3rd on location fairly frequently.
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On January 24 2013 19:03 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 15:52 enigmaticcam wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm just getting back into the game. It's been a long time since I've played on ladder, so I'm trying to catch up on the game state these days and working on build orders for each race.
I had a question on TvZ. I was wondering if the 2-rax is still a viable option against zerg. I think I had a pretty good 2-rax build with a 3-tank siege push around 9-10 minutes. Would that still have the same potency as it used to? proxy 2 rax? proxy 2 rax still works, but zergs are a lot better at defending it, if you have good micro, you can still punish greedy zergs
Not necessarily proxy. But I did a little research and found this http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Two_Rax_Pressure_FE_(vs._Zerg) explaining that the queen buff has rendered it ineffective. Ah well, guess I better get accustomed to the new TvZ metagame. Thanks!
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On January 25 2013 00:46 Kasu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 00:05 Henk wrote:On January 24 2013 22:54 KAB00000000M wrote:On January 24 2013 22:05 Henk wrote:On January 24 2013 21:20 KAB00000000M wrote:
Is it much more economical to put my 3rd CC immediately at my 3rd minerals instead of having it in base pumping SCV to natural and/or main?
How much difference is it in income?
NB: Considering opponent does not attack. If the opponent doesn't attack you surely could place it right away. But obviously, if your opponent sees your third down that early he will attack and deny it. Just pump some SCVs and put it down when you have an army capable of defending it, and then transfer SCVs. I thought I made myself clear by writing this: "NB: Considering opponent does not attack." I am only interested in the economic advantage/difference of placing right away vs after. Yeah. You're theorycrafting, obviously it's more economical to land it straight away, it doesn't take a genius to realise mining from 3 bases is better than mining from 2 oversaturated ones. It's also more economical to go into 6 CC before making any units NB considering opponent does not attack. Doesn't mean it's viable. He was clearly just asking for some guage of how much more economical it is, and therefore whether it should be attempted when possible. Don't totally dismiss his question just because you misunderstood it at first. Its economically beneficial enough to be worth doing if you can protect it. Personally I only do it if I see my opponent making a similarly greedy play, so I can be absolutely sure I am safe (eg gasless zerg goes fast 3rd, my hellions and banshees give me map control enough vs speedless lings to build my own 3rd on location). Better to get input from somebody who really knows what they are talking about though. You can also try ThorZaIN's stream, and watch for when and how he does this. He likes to play economically greedy and will build his 3rd on location fairly frequently.
Thank you both.
Henk:
I'm going to make it crystal clear: I am aware of that 3CC on 3 bases is more economical than 3CC on 2 bases. (Base = mineral line). I am interested to know the difference of 3CC-3base vs 3CC-2base. As in percentage or a bracket of the income when making the same number of scv and mules in both examples.
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EPT
