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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On January 24 2013 19:03 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 13:37 azngamer828 wrote:
against protoss on the map cloud kingdom (for example) where would be a good area to engage protoss who has mass collossi? generally if you have the viking count, you'll want to engage by some space terrain so your vikings can get some potshots off without the stalkers getting too much room to blink under
what do you mean by space terrain? do you mean the cliff behind the fourth or area with large surface area?
he had like 6 collossi and i had about 10 vikings
was that enough? i felt that was enough because i also had either 1-0 or 2-0 upgrade
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On January 24 2013 15:52 enigmaticcam wrote:
I had a question on TvZ. I was wondering if the 2-rax is still a viable option against zerg. I think I had a pretty good 2-rax build with a 3-tank siege push around 9-10 minutes. Would that still have the same potency as it used to?
Yes with an agressive variant such as 11/11 or 12/12. 12/14 is meh. Choose another follow-up though, this kind of Marines/Tanks is not good.
On January 24 2013 20:39 mizU wrote:
How would one defend against a 2 base 8 gate blink with a few sentries mixed in?
Just MMM should do; don't miss any Marauders, keep producing Medivacs, play defensive: YoDa vs Verdi, Antiga, IEM Katowice (not a pure Blink Stalkers build from the start but you'll get the idea). You will likely need Bunkers if you went third before extra Barracks; just like against Blink Stalkers all-ins, don't hesitate to pull SCVs to shield if you're outnumbered so your losses do not snowball out of control. Beware with ramp blocks tricks: Flash vs herO, Antiga, SPL CJ vs KT (just a Blink Stalker + Sentries attack, not a full 2-bases commitment).
On January 25 2013 01:31 KAB00000000M wrote:
I'm going to make it crystal clear: I am aware of that 3CC on 3 bases is more economical than 3CC on 2 bases. (Base = mineral line). I am interested to know the difference of 3CC-3base vs 3CC-2base. As in percentage or a bracket of the income when making the same number of scv and mules in both examples.
48 SCVs on minerals on 2 bases = ~1632 income per minute.
48 SCVs on minerals on 3 bases = ~2016 income per minute.
Basically it's interesting when you reach optimal saturation on your two first bases, i. e. 16 SCVs per mineral line; beyond that there are diminishing returns, so moving new SCVs to your third is beneficial.
On January 25 2013 01:59 azngamer828 wrote:
what do you mean by space terrain? do you mean the cliff behind the fourth or area with large surface area?
he had like 6 collossi and i had about 10 vikings
was that enough? i felt that was enough because i also had either 1-0 or 2-0 upgrade
Not enough at all, 6 Colossi = ~20 Vikings even with upgrades. With 10 you don't even kill them in one volley.
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How do you manage economy with Terran? Any useful tips on how to keep optimal worker saturation? It's easier with Zerg where the drone that you send to build something you just replace him, and even easier with Protoss as you instantly just warp buildings. With Terran I have SCV's running around building stuff... Are you going above optimal saturation just for the building SCV's?
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I'm using 1 rax FE into 3rax medivac stim timing in TvP, but I've been having a lot of trouble doing damage with this and keeping up if it doesn't do much.
A lot of protoss I play will have storm by the time I get to there base, which pretty much melts my push completely. And sometimes they'll just have two collosus and clean it up just as easily. Then I go back and macro up my MMM + viking + ghost, but can never win engagements late game vs. HT/collosus deathballs. What should I be doing differently?
P.S What is the best way to deal with HTs? What I've been doing is trying to snipe the observer with a scan and some vikings, then run in and EMP everything then stim and attack. But even when I feel like I do this well, they'll still have two or three storms and my army just melts. Should I be using snipe instead?
thanks
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Hi people.
I am looking for some aggressive openers in all 3 matchups.
I all this time have been doing 1 rax FE into my own playstyle, but I feel like I am always the one getting bullied, for example in TvP the P can always send 1 or 2 zealots and 1 stalker and I hate that. It is because P knows 99% Im gonna go 1 rax FE.
So, Does anybody know good, decent aggressive openers for each matchup? I am thinking of 1 rax marauder conc shells FE vs P in which I open with a conc shell marauder and some marines, putting pressure, then finally expanding myself.
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On January 25 2013 14:22 dynwar7 wrote:
Hi people.
I am looking for some aggressive openers in all 3 matchups.
I all this time have been doing 1 rax FE into my own playstyle, but I feel like I am always the one getting bullied, for example in TvP the P can always send 1 or 2 zealots and 1 stalker and I hate that. It is because P knows 99% Im gonna go 1 rax FE.
So, Does anybody know good, decent aggressive openers for each matchup? I am thinking of 1 rax marauder conc shells FE vs P in which I open with a conc shell marauder and some marines, putting pressure, then finally expanding myself.
TvT
- gas first marine hellion elevator
- gas first banshee
- proxy Conc shell marauders
TvP
- 2 rax conc shell push
TvZ
- 11/11
Though I would not recommend use the 11/11 or the 2 rax conc push as a ladder build.
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On January 25 2013 10:36 uyubo wrote:
I'm using 1 rax FE into 3rax medivac stim timing in TvP, but I've been having a lot of trouble doing damage with this and keeping up if it doesn't do much.
A lot of protoss I play will have storm by the time I get to there base, which pretty much melts my push completely. And sometimes they'll just have two collosus and clean it up just as easily. Then I go back and macro up my MMM + viking + ghost, but can never win engagements late game vs. HT/collosus deathballs. What should I be doing differently?
P.S What is the best way to deal with HTs? What I've been doing is trying to snipe the observer with a scan and some vikings, then run in and EMP everything then stim and attack. But even when I feel like I do this well, they'll still have two or three storms and my army just melts. Should I be using snipe instead?
thanks
Hey there,
I'll try to break it down as much as possible without making it sound like a math test. While I generally wouldn't call your strategy bad to begin with, nowadays it seems to be outdated. What you call out as a 1 rax fast expansion with a timing behind it, usually will not work anymore, because most of the Protoss have their expand up early and rush for either colossus or storm. Your timing if you play it well should hit before the 2nd colossus and before storm (low units in that case) but its not a push that you can actually win the game with against any Protoss that is not completely bad. He can stall time if he needs with forcefields and as you already said you die and fall behind.
Here's my take on your situation, without completely screwing you over. A 1 barracks fast expand is in most cases a good and save build, stick to it. While you try to execute a 3 barracks stim+medivac timing, I'd suggest for playing a bit more clever. First of all, you should know what Protoss is up to but lets assume you know how to figure out if a 5 6 7 gate is coming towards you, if you don't you can write me an PM or ask here and you will be helped I guess, but writing it out now would make it too long of a post.
If you constantly build units from your 3 barracks while teching up you should have a good force to move out with before your 2 medivacs are done. You can rally them behind but move out a bit, check the watchtower, send an scv to his base if you are unsure whats up / where he is. If you catch him out on the map (aka not watch tower, not his base) I'd be a bit more defensive but other than that, you can apply pressure. Pressure doesn't always mean attacking. Pressuring can be showing presence on the map, denying his vision. As soon as your medivacs are there, poking is fine but actually attacking is dumb. Protoss has the best defensive ability when it comes down to defending ramps, terrain in total. He can make up for supply deficit with simply cutting your army, he can deny fire power or forcefield-circle you to bug you.
You got medivacs, mobility and the smaller your mid-sized forced is the stronger you will be in a battle against an equal force. Protoss AoE scales on big battles. So the best thing you can do if you see he's not low on units and has colossus out is to load up your medivacs, feel free to scan his mainbase. Obviously this kind of gives away what you are trying. A good Protoss will have colossus/sentry/zealot in front of his natural while he has stalkers as drop defence in his main. This obviously means that he is ready to defend your drop, but he still doesn't have his complete army together. Attacking and losing your army is worth than putting it into dropships and camp it outside his mainbase, in the open space/air. What can he do about it without a stargate? Right, nothing. He has to be ready to defend and its always a threat. If you drop and lose your army, you fall behind. If you attack and lose your army, you fall behind. If you attack and its successful you win. If you attack and trade, Protoss can take a 3rd base and you lose your opinion to pressure because with warpgates he can replenish faster, also he could do a 2 base timing in which case your loss of units/trade would also be bad.
So in 3/4 cases you don't really get an advantage, but disadvantage. In 1 case you win. See the problem? If you park 2 dropships outside his base, he will think twice about a 2 base timing. Its either weaker cause he has to leave units behind or he has to take the risk of your dropships being unloaded, destroying tech/economy leading to him not supporting his 2 base allin anymore. In general it will make him more defensive, taking a 3rd base. While doing that you can easily go up to a 3rd yourself without much pressure. Start building vikings in case of robo(colossus) after 4 medivacs (personal preference, as you park 2 outside his base, can also build 6) or add a 2nd starport. Go ghost tech if you see twilight/dual forge. With your 3rd base building you should be up to 5 barracks, after a running 3rd to 6-7. From that point on, you are neither behind nor ahead, but you have established a good economy and from that point on, its down to mechanics.
Good luck!
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How do I switch from marine + tank to marauder heavy play when the zerg tech switches from ling+muta+bling to Ultras heavy? Should I not have my barracks on reactors in the start so I can get tech labs? Or should I lift them and build tech labs? Or should I have tech labs on all of them just to be sure I can transition fast enough?
I have problems understanding how to perform this.
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On January 25 2013 19:48 KAB00000000M wrote:
How do I switch from marine + tank to marauder heavy play when the zerg tech switches from ling+muta+bling to Ultras heavy? Should I not have my barracks on reactors in the start so I can get tech labs? Or should I lift them and build tech labs? Or should I have tech labs on all of them just to be sure I can transition fast enough?
I have problems understanding how to perform this.
You need to know when the transition is happening. He cannot switch from a second to another. He has to go up his techroute. Also you just need to have enough barracks. When your 3rd base goes up you can easily go up to 3 factory and 6 or 7 barracks with reactors. While doing so and pressuring, get your 4 base running and add up towards 10/11 barracks. Every barracks after your initial 6/7 with reactor can have a techlab that allows for good production and techswitches.
3 factories also help you greatly against ultras. Good luck!
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On January 25 2013 20:28 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 19:48 KAB00000000M wrote:
How do I switch from marine + tank to marauder heavy play when the zerg tech switches from ling+muta+bling to Ultras heavy? Should I not have my barracks on reactors in the start so I can get tech labs? Or should I lift them and build tech labs? Or should I have tech labs on all of them just to be sure I can transition fast enough?
I have problems understanding how to perform this. You need to know when the transition is happening. He cannot switch from a second to another. He has to go up his techroute. Also you just need to have enough barracks. When your 3rd base goes up you can easily go up to 3 factory and 6 or 7 barracks with reactors. While doing so and pressuring, get your 4 base running and add up towards 10/11 barracks. Every barracks after your initial 6/7 with reactor can have a techlab that allows for good production and techswitches. 3 factories also help you greatly against ultras. Good luck!
Ok. Thanks. Tanks unsieged vs ultras right?
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On January 25 2013 21:12 KAB00000000M wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 20:28 Type|NarutO wrote:On January 25 2013 19:48 KAB00000000M wrote:
How do I switch from marine + tank to marauder heavy play when the zerg tech switches from ling+muta+bling to Ultras heavy? Should I not have my barracks on reactors in the start so I can get tech labs? Or should I lift them and build tech labs? Or should I have tech labs on all of them just to be sure I can transition fast enough?
I have problems understanding how to perform this. You need to know when the transition is happening. He cannot switch from a second to another. He has to go up his techroute. Also you just need to have enough barracks. When your 3rd base goes up you can easily go up to 3 factory and 6 or 7 barracks with reactors. While doing so and pressuring, get your 4 base running and add up towards 10/11 barracks. Every barracks after your initial 6/7 with reactor can have a techlab that allows for good production and techswitches. 3 factories also help you greatly against ultras. Good luck! Ok. Thanks. Tanks unsieged vs ultras right?
Depends on how the engagement goes/is planned. 6 tanks sieged won't do anything against ultras, while 15 sieged tanks can do insane damage. Also you can focus infestors, so you have to try yourself. I had success with both and I have failed with both, just a matter of control and setup
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On January 25 2013 16:38 NoZyneighbor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 14:22 dynwar7 wrote:
Hi people.
I am looking for some aggressive openers in all 3 matchups.
I all this time have been doing 1 rax FE into my own playstyle, but I feel like I am always the one getting bullied, for example in TvP the P can always send 1 or 2 zealots and 1 stalker and I hate that. It is because P knows 99% Im gonna go 1 rax FE.
So, Does anybody know good, decent aggressive openers for each matchup? I am thinking of 1 rax marauder conc shells FE vs P in which I open with a conc shell marauder and some marines, putting pressure, then finally expanding myself. TvT - gas first marine hellion elevator - gas first banshee - proxy Conc shell marauders TvP - 2 rax conc shell push TvZ - 11/11 Though I would not recommend use the 11/11 or the 2 rax conc push as a ladder build.
Thank you very much. Are there other aggressive openers?
In TvT, if I go gas first in banshee, how much earlier is the difference compared to if I go standard 13gas? Similarly, in marine hellion elevator, how much earlier is the difference compared to going 13gas?
Can someone who is confident please list the build orders? I am diamond but still dont know how to do these aggressive builds 
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On January 25 2013 21:15 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 21:12 KAB00000000M wrote:On January 25 2013 20:28 Type|NarutO wrote:On January 25 2013 19:48 KAB00000000M wrote:
How do I switch from marine + tank to marauder heavy play when the zerg tech switches from ling+muta+bling to Ultras heavy? Should I not have my barracks on reactors in the start so I can get tech labs? Or should I lift them and build tech labs? Or should I have tech labs on all of them just to be sure I can transition fast enough?
I have problems understanding how to perform this. You need to know when the transition is happening. He cannot switch from a second to another. He has to go up his techroute. Also you just need to have enough barracks. When your 3rd base goes up you can easily go up to 3 factory and 6 or 7 barracks with reactors. While doing so and pressuring, get your 4 base running and add up towards 10/11 barracks. Every barracks after your initial 6/7 with reactor can have a techlab that allows for good production and techswitches. 3 factories also help you greatly against ultras. Good luck! Ok. Thanks. Tanks unsieged vs ultras right? Depends on how the engagement goes/is planned. 6 tanks sieged won't do anything against ultras, while 15 sieged tanks can do insane damage. Also you can focus infestors, so you have to try yourself. I had success with both and I have failed with both, just a matter of control and setup
Ok. Thanks for fast replies.
I'm so happy I got someone to ask about this stuff. Good work 
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On January 25 2013 21:58 dynwar7 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 16:38 NoZyneighbor wrote:On January 25 2013 14:22 dynwar7 wrote:
Hi people.
I am looking for some aggressive openers in all 3 matchups.
I all this time have been doing 1 rax FE into my own playstyle, but I feel like I am always the one getting bullied, for example in TvP the P can always send 1 or 2 zealots and 1 stalker and I hate that. It is because P knows 99% Im gonna go 1 rax FE.
So, Does anybody know good, decent aggressive openers for each matchup? I am thinking of 1 rax marauder conc shells FE vs P in which I open with a conc shell marauder and some marines, putting pressure, then finally expanding myself. TvT - gas first marine hellion elevator - gas first banshee - proxy Conc shell marauders TvP - 2 rax conc shell push TvZ - 11/11 Though I would not recommend use the 11/11 or the 2 rax conc push as a ladder build. Thank you very much. Are there other aggressive openers? In TvT, if I go gas first in banshee, how much earlier is the difference compared to if I go standard 13gas? Similarly, in marine hellion elevator, how much earlier is the difference compared to going 13gas? Can someone who is confident please list the build orders? I am diamond but still dont know how to do these aggressive builds
Enjoy; http://www.gosubuilds.com/terran-build-orders-2/
Also, could anyone explain to me why YoDa (in GSL vs Squirtle recently, most notably game 3 on Cloud Kingdom) ops for a variation of the 1 rax FE in TvP where he gets super fast addons (1 Reactor, 2 TL) to begin combat shield + stim at the same time, but delays his +1 and medivac timing significantly, is it just a variation to be safer from early all ins, and is it worth using on ladder if that is the case?
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Thanks mau5mat.
Still wanting to hear the blue poster's opinions though
It says 11/11 is all in lol IMO its an aggressive opener.
Anyway, hope the blue posters will help.
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On January 25 2013 23:07 dynwar7 wrote:Thanks mau5mat. Still wanting to hear the blue poster's opinions though It says 11/11 is all in lol IMO its an aggressive opener. Anyway, hope the blue posters will help.
Well, 11/11 is all in. If you don't do (enough) damage you're most likely dead.
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On January 22 2013 06:02 badboybC wrote:Hello! I need a little help. Its not directly a strategic question, but i'm bit confused. The replay: http://drop.sc/297386I made a drop with 3 hellions - directly reacted with stalkers ... After that i mad a drop with 3 medivacs ... and he moves his stalkers directly to my point of drop. During my flight, he scouted my base with a stalker and see, that there is not that much home. But how can he know, that i will drop directly there, where he moves his complete stalkers. There where no observers.... Im total confused.... Best regards, Andreas Edit: I watched the replay with his vision - he dont know where my base is and simply looked at my ramp at 11:something. What is this?!?!
Yes, this guy is actually map hacking. About the 11 min thing, he does actually know where you are because there is only cross spawn on Antiga since 2 weeks ago or something but I agree that it looks suspicious.
The moment that proves that he is map hacking is at 13:20 where he moves his entire army to the location where you are gonna drop and claims that he saw it with an observer.
Report this guy for map hacking if you didn't already
Good luck in the future!
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On January 25 2013 17:37 Type|NarutO wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 25 2013 10:36 uyubo wrote:
I'm using 1 rax FE into 3rax medivac stim timing in TvP, but I've been having a lot of trouble doing damage with this and keeping up if it doesn't do much.
A lot of protoss I play will have storm by the time I get to there base, which pretty much melts my push completely. And sometimes they'll just have two collosus and clean it up just as easily. Then I go back and macro up my MMM + viking + ghost, but can never win engagements late game vs. HT/collosus deathballs. What should I be doing differently?
P.S What is the best way to deal with HTs? What I've been doing is trying to snipe the observer with a scan and some vikings, then run in and EMP everything then stim and attack. But even when I feel like I do this well, they'll still have two or three storms and my army just melts. Should I be using snipe instead?
thanks Hey there, I'll try to break it down as much as possible without making it sound like a math test. While I generally wouldn't call your strategy bad to begin with, nowadays it seems to be outdated. What you call out as a 1 rax fast expansion with a timing behind it, usually will not work anymore, because most of the Protoss have their expand up early and rush for either colossus or storm. Your timing if you play it well should hit before the 2nd colossus and before storm (low units in that case) but its not a push that you can actually win the game with against any Protoss that is not completely bad. He can stall time if he needs with forcefields and as you already said you die and fall behind. Here's my take on your situation, without completely screwing you over. A 1 barracks fast expand is in most cases a good and save build, stick to it. While you try to execute a 3 barracks stim+medivac timing, I'd suggest for playing a bit more clever. First of all, you should know what Protoss is up to but lets assume you know how to figure out if a 5 6 7 gate is coming towards you, if you don't you can write me an PM or ask here and you will be helped I guess, but writing it out now would make it too long of a post. If you constantly build units from your 3 barracks while teching up you should have a good force to move out with before your 2 medivacs are done. You can rally them behind but move out a bit, check the watchtower, send an scv to his base if you are unsure whats up / where he is. If you catch him out on the map (aka not watch tower, not his base) I'd be a bit more defensive but other than that, you can apply pressure. Pressure doesn't always mean attacking. Pressuring can be showing presence on the map, denying his vision. As soon as your medivacs are there, poking is fine but actually attacking is dumb. Protoss has the best defensive ability when it comes down to defending ramps, terrain in total. He can make up for supply deficit with simply cutting your army, he can deny fire power or forcefield-circle you to bug you. You got medivacs, mobility and the smaller your mid-sized forced is the stronger you will be in a battle against an equal force. Protoss AoE scales on big battles. So the best thing you can do if you see he's not low on units and has colossus out is to load up your medivacs, feel free to scan his mainbase. Obviously this kind of gives away what you are trying. A good Protoss will have colossus/sentry/zealot in front of his natural while he has stalkers as drop defence in his main. This obviously means that he is ready to defend your drop, but he still doesn't have his complete army together. Attacking and losing your army is worth than putting it into dropships and camp it outside his mainbase, in the open space/air. What can he do about it without a stargate? Right, nothing. He has to be ready to defend and its always a threat. If you drop and lose your army, you fall behind. If you attack and lose your army, you fall behind. If you attack and its successful you win. If you attack and trade, Protoss can take a 3rd base and you lose your opinion to pressure because with warpgates he can replenish faster, also he could do a 2 base timing in which case your loss of units/trade would also be bad. So in 3/4 cases you don't really get an advantage, but disadvantage. In 1 case you win. See the problem? If you park 2 dropships outside his base, he will think twice about a 2 base timing. Its either weaker cause he has to leave units behind or he has to take the risk of your dropships being unloaded, destroying tech/economy leading to him not supporting his 2 base allin anymore. In general it will make him more defensive, taking a 3rd base. While doing that you can easily go up to a 3rd yourself without much pressure. Start building vikings in case of robo(colossus) after 4 medivacs (personal preference, as you park 2 outside his base, can also build 6) or add a 2nd starport. Go ghost tech if you see twilight/dual forge. With your 3rd base building you should be up to 5 barracks, after a running 3rd to 6-7. From that point on, you are neither behind nor ahead, but you have established a good economy and from that point on, its down to mechanics. Good luck!
Thanks! Yeah, what you're describing is exactly what I've been encountering. So, I use the ~10minute army to get map control and contain the protoss on 2 base, then what?
What I've been doing when my attack fails is just continue producing MMM mixing in vikings and/or ghosts depending on what they have. But eventually when they attack my army just melts so fast. The unit composition I'm usually losing to is something like HT, collosus, sentry zealots. What is the ideal terran unit composition to deal with that? I try to pick off collosus with vikings before the engagement, and I can land some EMPs, but they always seem to still have enough energy to storm. Is snipe more effective in this situation?
I have pretty much the same problem vs Z as well, not knowing what to transition into lategame. I can be harassing and doing really well with marine/tank/medivac early game, and deal OK with infestors in the mid game, but then broodlords or ultralisks seem to pop up so suddenly and, again, my army melts. I don't seem to have this problem in TvT where most games are marine/tank positioning battles into raven/battlecruisers if the game goes super long. I can keep up with that, I feel like I have even footing. I guess what I'm asking is what would the ideal lategame in TvP and TvZ look like for terran, what should I be heading towards? thanks again
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On January 25 2013 02:44 TheDwf wrote:
I'm going to make it crystal clear: I am aware of that 3CC on 3 bases is more economical than 3CC on 2 bases. (Base = mineral line). I am interested to know the difference of 3CC-3base vs 3CC-2base. As in percentage or a bracket of the income when making the same number of scv and mules in both examples.
48 SCVs on minerals on 2 bases = ~1632 income per minute.
48 SCVs on minerals on 3 bases = ~2016 income per minute.
Basically it's interesting when you reach optimal saturation on your two first bases, i. e. 16 SCVs per mineral line; beyond that there are diminishing returns, so moving new SCVs to your third is beneficial.
[/QUOTE]
So if you want to play perfect, you land your third CC right when you hit 16 scvs on each mineral line (= 32 scvs) (+ 6 for each 2 geysers)?
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Hey guys, I'm a masters Zerg but now we can play on different regions, I'm trying out terran on NA. Terran's pretty tough IMO. I use 1rax FE for every MU, into 3rax. So basically what I'm doing is:
1rax
CC
Gas (no idea when to take this. Just throwing it in somewhere. also 1 or 2 gases?)
2 more raxes
factory
starport
But I'm not sure when to build all this stuff. This thread has some info about build orders but it doesn't feature exact timings. Also, how do you guys deal with your hotkeys? I have all my production on 3 and CC on 4, but marine=1 and tank=2. Now, if I'm going to drop, I like to hotkey that medivac.. And in the lategame, when you have ghosts, you want to hotkey those. But at the same time when you stutter step you don't want your medivacs on the same hotkey cause they won't heal, and you want your vikings to target BL or colossi.
How the hell do you do this? Are you terrans APM monsters with 5 army hotkeys?
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EPT
