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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On September 24 2012 03:45 herMan wrote:
Thanks for the replies, though perhaps I should elaborate: I can't scout all his tech with a scan unless I get really lucky. When I move out with 5rax MMM pressure he already has 2+colossi, a handful of templar and some meat to protect them so I get butchered in a head-on fight. When I move out maxed the next time, he has the perfect mix already.
Can you post a replay?bombers timing is at about 10:15 I honestly can't think of a possibility where he can have both ready.. People have better macro at high masters but I don't think this is possible :D
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On September 24 2012 03:45 herMan wrote:
Thanks for the replies, though perhaps I should elaborate: I can't scout all his tech with a scan unless I get really lucky. When I move out with 5rax MMM pressure he already has 2+colossi, a handful of templar and some meat to protect them so I get butchered in a head-on fight. When I move out maxed the next time, he has the perfect mix already.
I think the usual telltale signs for this is that their sentry count will be a lot lower than you'd normally expect way before your medivac timing. If you poke in with an SCV or a marine at the front and see this then I'd go before your medivacs but only use stim sparingly. If you take a few SCVs and successfully bunker his expansion then he's pretty much dead in the water (I know how hard it can be to kill a standing Toss army though). Just play safe after the expand goes down knowing you're ahead.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Guys I just dont understand TvZ anymore 
This guy was so low on bases but still had so much and could tech switch at will yeah maybye drop more or something.
Also I had lagg so my micro was bad because my actions were delayed but still pls hepl and criticise. Also my build is from Bomber and is very macro oriented so I can improve my macro mechanics.
http://drop.sc/257092
Thx
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On September 23 2012 22:09 Bojas wrote:Hi, I feel pretty confident against macro protoss nowadays and if I lose I usually know what to do differently. However against a protoss who does anything off 1 base with 2 gasses I start to get confused and don't know how to prepare. I don't think I've ever beaten a blink stalker allin. I have a really hard time vs void ray allins, the only times where I beat them is when they have bronze league level micro. I just had a TvP on Antiga where my opponent went for a 3 gate robo allin. I had a hard time preparing for it. http://drop.sc/256965Basically this was my thought process: I scv scout -> see low ground gate somehow assume it's an expansion (I have no idea why I did) realise he does not have to expand go in there again at 6:20 see no expansion 2 sentries. Go back to my main see the blur of an observer. At this point I know he has 2 gasses 2 sentries and a robo. I thought he could do 2 things: bust my ramp with immortals, do some sort of warp prism shenanigans or both. I built a bunker in my main to hold any possible harassment in my main so I could fully focus on holding my natural. I decide to go all out on marines and bunkers since marauders would not be as usefull. I didn't dare build any addons since he might just exploit that with his timing. Having placed a marine under my ramp I was his one base allin immortal bust army approach my ramp. I pull scvs with decent reaction speed. He blows up a bunker and kills my marines I didn't micro perfectly but it would not have mattered if I did or not. Basically I need someone to point out any mistakes in my thought process and maybe some general tips on how to know what the protoss is up to. Thanks in advance. 
- Don't assume expand if you see a low ground Gateway. It usually means Zealot/Zealot/Stalker pressure with some Chronos on the Gateway, but it's still possible your opponent is going some kind of nonsense as yours did.
- Go scout his main with your SCV.
- Upon seeing a Cybernetics Core on the low ground and no units from the Gateway, I would have probably tried to build a Bunker nearby, he's doing something risky.
- You need 4+ Bunkers against Immortals busts and SCVs ready when he comes.
- You must focus the Sentry casting Guardian Shield when he attacks. This is really the most important thing to do.
Given what you scouted it could have been one-base Colossus too. This is why you need to scout his main with SCVs to see where his Pylons are, that way you can scan later to see if he has a Robotics Bay. Sentries drops are also possible, try to park a Marine in front of your base if he doesn't make a Stalker (ok, you did it); if he does, chase him with your first Marines and sneak a Marine patrolling at your third, you might see the Prism coming this way.
On September 24 2012 03:45 herMan wrote:
Thanks for the replies, though perhaps I should elaborate: I can't scout all his tech with a scan unless I get really lucky. When I move out with 5rax MMM pressure he already has 2+colossi, a handful of templar and some meat to protect them so I get butchered in a head-on fight. When I move out maxed the next time, he has the perfect mix already.
Replay please, your description seems strange.
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Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard?
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On September 25 2012 00:25 _NIx_ wrote:
Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard?
PF Rushing a Zerg's Third then creating a hard contain with simcity + siege tanks.
Proxy Reaper bunker rush TvZ
PF Expand into Quadport banshee TvZ
Proxy Marauder TvP
Gas First into Marine drop with Hellions going up the ramp TvP (If they react wrong and pull workers from the line you'll kill them all usually)
4CC sky Terran TvZ
Turtle Terran with mass Nukes TvZ (can work TvP also but it's harder to pull off)
12/14/18 rax cheese TvP gets some good rage =D
Tank/Viking TvT is fun if you can get to that good number of tanks where nothing can run at you.
Proxy BC rush TvZ
Reaper Medivac TvZ
Marine/Thor/Banshee TvP
Thor Rush TvZ
Some are less standard than others, that's all I can think of atm.
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On September 25 2012 00:25 _NIx_ wrote:
Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard?
3 Fact reactor hellion TvP into mech (usually the toss reacts like shit and dies to the hellions)
Mech is rather odd - TvP. Most toss dont know how to react, and when their first push fails horribly (blinking into tank+thors, hellions raping immortals, tanks raping collosi...) they usually turtle, you expand 10 times, PF and siege outside his base, set up 100 turrets throughout entire map and basically you get this dumb standoff that becomes a carrer mship vs ghost thor nuke play lol.
TvZ 14cc into 6rax (2 tech 4 reactor) with +1 armor, 10minute timing push with massive army and a huge chunk of scvs - Usually out right kills him or deals tons of damage with good micro and bad preparation from opponent (holding this completely requires a long ass preparation, not something you can do if a) greedy b) didnt scout
TvP (opener) 8 marine 3-4 hellion 1 medevac pressure expand - you can choose to drop the marines on the main mineral line and rape the probes and he xfers them to the nat mineral, or just a straight up push, or elevator etc etc...
High micro + multitask needed because when you push is done hes gonna come for you and you better have something.
TvP (opener) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210371 Old as hell, decent, but not as strong as above play and much more risky.
TvP (cheese) Same as the hellion drop build, but you get 2 gas instead of one, and after medevac immediately throw down techlab + second starport, while pushing make raven, then double banshee with cloak. Basically if you manage to kill a handful of probes the resulting 4 banshee push will outright kill him (constant marine/hellion/depot production. Cut scvs)
Every TvT on KR is unorthordox IMO so I dont know what to dump down.
Play toss/zerg, go run around on KR server and into some terrans. They have the weirdest one base plays ever lol.
What I posted is actually....standard-ish lol
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On September 25 2012 00:25 _NIx_ wrote:
Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard?
I think the most underused unit. apart from TvP, is the ghost. Alteast from my experience. Ive been thinking about the ghost and im sure there are some cool thing you could pull off simply because nobody expects it.
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On September 25 2012 00:43 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:25 _NIx_ wrote:
Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard? I think the most underused unit. apart from TvP, is the ghost. Alteast from my experience. Ive been thinking about the ghost and im sure there are some cool thing you could pull off simply because nobody expects it.
I think the ghost trumps the BC in terms of usage...?
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Wow, that's a bunch of neat builds, I'll experiment with all of them! Can someone link me to the TvZ guide I remember reading once with the turtling outside of Zerg's natural?
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On September 24 2012 20:45 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 22:09 Bojas wrote:Hi, I feel pretty confident against macro protoss nowadays and if I lose I usually know what to do differently. However against a protoss who does anything off 1 base with 2 gasses I start to get confused and don't know how to prepare. I don't think I've ever beaten a blink stalker allin. I have a really hard time vs void ray allins, the only times where I beat them is when they have bronze league level micro. I just had a TvP on Antiga where my opponent went for a 3 gate robo allin. I had a hard time preparing for it. http://drop.sc/256965Basically this was my thought process: I scv scout -> see low ground gate somehow assume it's an expansion (I have no idea why I did) realise he does not have to expand go in there again at 6:20 see no expansion 2 sentries. Go back to my main see the blur of an observer. At this point I know he has 2 gasses 2 sentries and a robo. I thought he could do 2 things: bust my ramp with immortals, do some sort of warp prism shenanigans or both. I built a bunker in my main to hold any possible harassment in my main so I could fully focus on holding my natural. I decide to go all out on marines and bunkers since marauders would not be as usefull. I didn't dare build any addons since he might just exploit that with his timing. Having placed a marine under my ramp I was his one base allin immortal bust army approach my ramp. I pull scvs with decent reaction speed. He blows up a bunker and kills my marines I didn't micro perfectly but it would not have mattered if I did or not. Basically I need someone to point out any mistakes in my thought process and maybe some general tips on how to know what the protoss is up to. Thanks in advance. - Don't assume expand if you see a low ground Gateway. It usually means Zealot/Zealot/Stalker pressure with some Chronos on the Gateway, but it's still possible your opponent is going some kind of nonsense as yours did. - Go scout his main with your SCV. - Upon seeing a Cybernetics Core on the low ground and no units from the Gateway, I would have probably tried to build a Bunker nearby, he's doing something risky. - You need 4+ Bunkers against Immortals busts and SCVs ready when he comes. - You must focus the Sentry casting Guardian Shield when he attacks. This is really the most important thing to do. Given what you scouted it could have been one-base Colossus too. This is why you need to scout his main with SCVs to see where his Pylons are, that way you can scan later to see if he has a Robotics Bay. Sentries drops are also possible, try to park a Marine in front of your base if he doesn't make a Stalker (ok, you did it); if he does, chase him with your first Marines and sneak a Marine patrolling at your third, you might see the Prism coming this way. Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 03:45 herMan wrote:
Thanks for the replies, though perhaps I should elaborate: I can't scout all his tech with a scan unless I get really lucky. When I move out with 5rax MMM pressure he already has 2+colossi, a handful of templar and some meat to protect them so I get butchered in a head-on fight. When I move out maxed the next time, he has the perfect mix already. Replay please, your description seems strange.
Thank you, this will help in the future :-)
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On September 25 2012 00:43 Fjodorov wrote:I think the most underused unit. apart from TvP, is the ghost. Alteast from my experience. Ive been thinking about the ghost and im sure there are some cool thing you could pull off simply because nobody expects it.
Ghosts are a excellent unit to have in TvP and are not in any sort underused, it is pretty much a requirement to have when playing against toss when they go for HT first or when they go for the tech switch unless you have insane predicting and splitting skill, your bio ball will be eating storms all day and even if they do not got HT the emp ability will still wreck a toss deathball.
Even as a fighting unit the ghosts are not bad at tanking and are excellent at killing zealots
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On September 25 2012 00:55 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:43 Fjodorov wrote:On September 25 2012 00:25 _NIx_ wrote:
Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard? I think the most underused unit. apart from TvP, is the ghost. Alteast from my experience. Ive been thinking about the ghost and im sure there are some cool thing you could pull off simply because nobody expects it. I think the ghost trumps the BC in terms of usage...?
Well I see BC quite often when in TvT but hardly ever does anyone bother getting ghosts. And in TvZ i see BC/raven/viking but not much of the ghost. As i mentioned, i disregarded TvP since ghost is pretty obvious in that match up. Anyways, my experiences might differ from yours because i play in diamond and perhaps most players dont have the multitasking to use ghosts in TvT and TvZ.
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On September 25 2012 01:38 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:55 padfoota wrote:On September 25 2012 00:43 Fjodorov wrote:On September 25 2012 00:25 _NIx_ wrote:
Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard? I think the most underused unit. apart from TvP, is the ghost. Alteast from my experience. Ive been thinking about the ghost and im sure there are some cool thing you could pull off simply because nobody expects it. I think the ghost trumps the BC in terms of usage...? Well I see BC quite often when in TvT but hardly ever does anyone bother getting ghosts. And in TvZ i see BC/raven/viking but not much of the ghost. As i mentioned, i disregarded TvP since ghost is pretty obvious in that match up. Anyways, my experiences might differ from yours because i play in diamond and perhaps most players dont have the multitasking to use ghosts in TvT and TvZ.
Sorry misread your posts, I have been seeing some streamers use ghosts in similar ways in TvZ as they do in TvP using cloak and snipes to kill the infestors to avoid getting their entire army fungaled, emp not so much as infestors are pretty big making emp not as effective.
I think it really depends on how the game went during the early and midgame stage and how much pressure was put on the zerg and how damage the zerg suffered, ghosts could be viable answer then if the broodlord count is in small enough numbers. In small numbers broodlords and infestors are can still be dealt with marine tank and vikings, maybe in large numbers broodlord infestor army, a combination of raven, ghosts, and regular army could be used when it gets into the late game where you have the economy to support such a expensive army
I do not think there is currently any way to play the or early or midgame with ghosts, as so much of the terran gas will be spent on stim, CS, upgrades, tanks, and medivacs.
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Im not sure if this is the exact right spot to post this but I thought mods might get mad if I made a whole thread for this.
My question is about Taeja. Hes obviously been killing it recently and I really like his control group set up as Ive been trying to incorporate seperate groups for production recently. I noticed he hotkeys all his cc's on both 7 & 8, can anyone think of a reason for this? From what Ive seen most Terrans who use seperate production groups hotkey cc's on 8 or 0, Im assuming from broodwar or in order to put ups on 7. Also almost all Korean Terrans Ive seen keep the main cc on one of the first 3 control groups, despite having camera location binds, which is somewhat confusing to me also. I know that most people say do what is comfortable, and this is all that matters, and I agree with this to some degree. The reason I like studying pro hotkeys is that I learn particularly well through visuals, and direct copying of movement etc. Im not gonna force myself to use a hotkey setup I dont like, but using a pros setup allows me to study how they look at stuff (through fpvods/reps) and examine how they hit particular keys etc by watching vods that show the players hands. Its a bit weird but I really do learn this way, and I could use help making sense of some of this stuff, and also if this is a terrible way to replicate a hotkey setup (like if they rebind all keys or use grid or something). Ive looked at mostly korean terran setups because koreans generally have better mechanics, no offense to foreign players.
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On September 25 2012 05:32 JuiceBoxHero wrote:
Im not sure if this is the exact right spot to post this but I thought mods might get mad if I made a whole thread for this.
My question is about Taeja. Hes obviously been killing it recently and I really like his control group set up as Ive been trying to incorporate seperate groups for production recently. I noticed he hotkeys all his cc's on both 7 & 8, can anyone think of a reason for this? From what Ive seen most Terrans who use seperate production groups hotkey cc's on 8 or 0, Im assuming from broodwar or in order to put ups on 7. Also almost all Korean Terrans Ive seen keep the main cc on one of the first 3 control groups, despite having camera location binds, which is somewhat confusing to me also. I know that most people say do what is comfortable, and this is all that matters, and I agree with this to some degree. The reason I like studying pro hotkeys is that I learn particularly well through visuals, and direct copying of movement etc. Im not gonna force myself to use a hotkey setup I dont like, but using a pros setup allows me to study how they look at stuff (through fpvods/reps) and examine how they hit particular keys etc by watching vods that show the players hands. Its a bit weird but I really do learn this way, and I could use help making sense of some of this stuff, and also if this is a terrible way to replicate a hotkey setup (like if they rebind all keys or use grid or something). Ive looked at mostly korean terran setups because koreans generally have better mechanics, no offense to foreign players.
The problem is, each pro has their hotkeys set up in a different way from standard hotkeys. Blizzard shows the hotkeys as 1 through 0, but the fact is you have no idea what key is actually being pressed, it could be rebound to anything on the keyboard. And about Taeja binding both 7 and 8, I've noticed some players have their "free" hotkeys as CC for no real reason.
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Hello, I'm a top level bronze league (hopefully I'll get promoted to silver this season!), and this night I've encountered a rather strange build. I was going for a 1-1-1, but I couldn't even begin building a refinery that my opponent stole both of my gas geisers. After that I've just thought about going MMM (which it also need some gas, I know, but at least I could build marines at the start). Was my thought process ok, or could I have gone for something else? Maybe if I microed a little better against the ball of zealots I could have beaten the DTs? Let me know (I'll post a replay)
http://www.mediafire.com/?u4kp8obee5y4oij
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On September 25 2012 06:42 _NIx_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 05:32 JuiceBoxHero wrote:
Im not sure if this is the exact right spot to post this but I thought mods might get mad if I made a whole thread for this.
My question is about Taeja. Hes obviously been killing it recently and I really like his control group set up as Ive been trying to incorporate seperate groups for production recently. I noticed he hotkeys all his cc's on both 7 & 8, can anyone think of a reason for this? From what Ive seen most Terrans who use seperate production groups hotkey cc's on 8 or 0, Im assuming from broodwar or in order to put ups on 7. Also almost all Korean Terrans Ive seen keep the main cc on one of the first 3 control groups, despite having camera location binds, which is somewhat confusing to me also. I know that most people say do what is comfortable, and this is all that matters, and I agree with this to some degree. The reason I like studying pro hotkeys is that I learn particularly well through visuals, and direct copying of movement etc. Im not gonna force myself to use a hotkey setup I dont like, but using a pros setup allows me to study how they look at stuff (through fpvods/reps) and examine how they hit particular keys etc by watching vods that show the players hands. Its a bit weird but I really do learn this way, and I could use help making sense of some of this stuff, and also if this is a terrible way to replicate a hotkey setup (like if they rebind all keys or use grid or something). Ive looked at mostly korean terran setups because koreans generally have better mechanics, no offense to foreign players. The problem is, each pro has their hotkeys set up in a different way from standard hotkeys. Blizzard shows the hotkeys as 1 through 0, but the fact is you have no idea what key is actually being pressed, it could be rebound to anything on the keyboard. And about Taeja binding both 7 and 8, I've noticed some players have their "free" hotkeys as CC for no real reason.
Yea thats what im afraid of. I know for a fact polt rebound his 0 key to either ` or q (he says it in a interview) because he has small hands but I feel like most koreans play with an almost entirely standard setup. I thought all of them would rebind 0 to ` or something like it but if you watch some players with literally nothing between 6 and 0 for cc's they actually hit 0 to build scvs, which is insane to me but i think its a bw thing. I personally hate 1a and 0 is kinda far even though I have giant hands, so ive been looking at players that use 2a3a and something like 7 for cc's. I just thought it was very strange that Taeja would intentionally have a redundancy in his groupings, since he actively adds all his cc's to both 7 and 8.
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On September 25 2012 08:26 JuiceBoxHero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 06:42 _NIx_ wrote:On September 25 2012 05:32 JuiceBoxHero wrote:
Im not sure if this is the exact right spot to post this but I thought mods might get mad if I made a whole thread for this.
My question is about Taeja. Hes obviously been killing it recently and I really like his control group set up as Ive been trying to incorporate seperate groups for production recently. I noticed he hotkeys all his cc's on both 7 & 8, can anyone think of a reason for this? From what Ive seen most Terrans who use seperate production groups hotkey cc's on 8 or 0, Im assuming from broodwar or in order to put ups on 7. Also almost all Korean Terrans Ive seen keep the main cc on one of the first 3 control groups, despite having camera location binds, which is somewhat confusing to me also. I know that most people say do what is comfortable, and this is all that matters, and I agree with this to some degree. The reason I like studying pro hotkeys is that I learn particularly well through visuals, and direct copying of movement etc. Im not gonna force myself to use a hotkey setup I dont like, but using a pros setup allows me to study how they look at stuff (through fpvods/reps) and examine how they hit particular keys etc by watching vods that show the players hands. Its a bit weird but I really do learn this way, and I could use help making sense of some of this stuff, and also if this is a terrible way to replicate a hotkey setup (like if they rebind all keys or use grid or something). Ive looked at mostly korean terran setups because koreans generally have better mechanics, no offense to foreign players. The problem is, each pro has their hotkeys set up in a different way from standard hotkeys. Blizzard shows the hotkeys as 1 through 0, but the fact is you have no idea what key is actually being pressed, it could be rebound to anything on the keyboard. And about Taeja binding both 7 and 8, I've noticed some players have their "free" hotkeys as CC for no real reason. Yea thats what im afraid of. I know for a fact polt rebound his 0 key to either ` or q (he says it in a interview) because he has small hands but I feel like most koreans play with an almost entirely standard setup. I thought all of them would rebind 0 to ` or something like it but if you watch some players with literally nothing between 6 and 0 for cc's they actually hit 0 to build scvs, which is insane to me but i think its a bw thing. I personally hate 1a and 0 is kinda far even though I have giant hands, so ive been looking at players that use 2a3a and something like 7 for cc's. I just thought it was very strange that Taeja would intentionally have a redundancy in his groupings, since he actively adds all his cc's to both 7 and 8.
I think I do the same exact thing. I keep 1,2,3, for my army hotkeys, and use 456 for factory barracks starport 7 cc and 0 engi bays.
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http://drop.sc/257486
I'm completely lost as to what happened this game (though I suspect game balance played a role). The only big mistakes I see myself having made are trapping 2 thors in my main, getting late 3/3, and splitting somewhat poor in the last engagement. However, I feel just these are not enough to justify my having been crushed so convincingly. What am I missing? Any critique, advice, or even general tips would be greatly appreciated.
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EPT
