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On September 26 2012 13:52 GTPGlitch wrote:
Does anyone do the MMM-Thor TvZ style that MKP displayed a while back?
I've been playing around with it a little (aka 2 games) and I won both games I used it in, but I don't know if it's really considered a viable strategy anymore.
I play an MMM style against Z and sometimes I get thors if his mutas are getting ridiculous.
They also do decent against opponents who a-click lings and banelings..in which the banelings run into the thor and lol ensue.
I also like to drop a thor in the middle of a shit ton of banelings and have the opponent rage at me.
But it really depends on what the opponent is doing - sometimes Ill mix in hellions/thors/ghosts/ or ravens.
Unless I have no idea wtf you are talking about.
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Hi all, sorry for being ignorant and bumping up a topic that has most likely been talked here countless times in the past. Im a P player switching over to terran, and i'd like to get one somewhat good all-around build for each matchup, that i can start practicing with. The build doesn't need to be pro-level, just something that should produce even decent results in the low / mid tiers. I've found alot of info on these kind of "starter builds" but most of them seem quite outdated. URL's to these builds would do just fine. Thanks in advance.
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On September 26 2012 19:34 sk1nex wrote:
Hi all, sorry for being ignorant and bumping up a topic that has most likely been talked here countless times in the past. Im a P player switching over to terran, and i'd like to get one somewhat good all-around build for each matchup, that i can start practicing with. The build doesn't need to be pro-level, just something that should produce even decent results in the low / mid tiers. I've found alot of info on these kind of "starter builds" but most of them seem quite outdated. URL's to these builds would do just fine. Thanks in advance.
What league are you in? If you're bronze/silver I gave a guy some advice a couple of posts back. If you're gold or higher I'd recommend you to try out 1rax FE builds, they are widely used in all 3 matchups and you shouldn't have any problems finding replays/VODs to find people using these builds. Stick to 1 for each matchup. Here's one for TvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340714
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On September 26 2012 19:34 sk1nex wrote:
Hi all, sorry for being ignorant and bumping up a topic that has most likely been talked here countless times in the past. Im a P player switching over to terran, and i'd like to get one somewhat good all-around build for each matchup, that i can start practicing with. The build doesn't need to be pro-level, just something that should produce even decent results in the low / mid tiers. I've found alot of info on these kind of "starter builds" but most of them seem quite outdated. URL's to these builds would do just fine. Thanks in advance.
1 rax expo works in every matchup but its so common that everyone at higher levels take advantage of it. Nevertheless it's a good place to start.
Basically:
10 Supply
12 Barracks
15 Orbital
15 Marine (1 and then stop)
16 Command Centre
16 Supply Depot --> start Marines again
Against Z you could go double gas into reactor hellion
2x Gas
Factory at 100 gas
Reactor next 50 gas
Switch the two when finished --> Starport or 3rd CC, etc.
Then focus on marine/tank/medivac and of course upgrades.
Against P you can add Barracks and then go Starport into MMM.
2x Barracks
2x Gas
Techlab --> Stim
Enbay --> +1
Factory --> Reactor
3rd Gas
Starport
Poke with 2 medivacs
3rd
Against T you could go mech, marine heavy --> tank or tank early or really anything.
The metagame always changes so have a look at progamers executing builds on streams.
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Thank you, this is very much appreciated.
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Some questions:
1) Against zerg, if I 1 rax FE, is it right to follow with 3 rax/factory/starport? SHould I use first gas for stim or siege? And at what time do you usually push out?
2) Against protoss, at what time do you push out for damage? (following from 1 rax FE into 3 rax)
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On September 26 2012 20:14 SoSexy wrote:
Some questions:
1) Against zerg, if I 1 rax FE, is it right to follow with 3 rax/factory/starport? SHould I use first gas for stim or siege? And at what time do you usually push out?
2) Against protoss, at what time do you push out for damage? (following from 1 rax FE into 3 rax)
1) The most standard thing to do after 1rax FE is reactor hellions+ cloakshees. With hellion+banshee you're able to defend against pretty much everything, so you can get a third cc+double upgrades with just 1fact and 1 port. After that you can transition into either marine-tank or mech.
2) Somewhere around 10-10:30, which is when your first medivacs are out.
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On September 26 2012 11:46 Mavvie wrote:
Really there's no need to. Your bunker rush will either kill the hatch or cause a ton of damage by lost mining time/forcing a lot of lings. 1rax FE soft counters 3 hatch before pool.
I disagree. Unfortunately by the time you scout he went 3 hatch before pool (say 3'30 so you know if you can go triple CC or if you have to get dual gas against Zerg going gas before pool), you already have cut your second Marine which makes your Bunker attempt much weaker. I met roxkisAbver several days ago on ladder (map was Antiga, cross spawns); upon scouting a Drone weirdly standing still in his main base at the 3'30 mark, I went to his third and tried to Bunker rush, but he had no troubles holding it. He can just follow your SCV with a Drone and pull additional Drones if you try to build a Bunker while bringing extra SCVs. With only one Marine before a long time (if you start your second Marine right away, at 3'30, it completes at 3'55 and is at Zerg's third roughly by the time his pool is done) there is no way you can complete the Bunker, especially if you didn't pre-emptively move your first Marine on the map.
Obviously it's a risky move from Zerg; for all he knows there could be a proxied Barracks somewhere which would result in an instant loss for him, but if he's willing to gamble he can get away with it. Not that he will have much of an advantage compared with a later third, but he can definitely keep his third Hatchery against a Bunker rush attempt unless you went for a 1 rax expand build that doesn't cut Marines.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On September 25 2012 00:40 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:25 _NIx_ wrote:
Hi, master protoss player here, switching to random and ready to take some losses as Terran.
What are some strong, yet unorthodx styles to play as Terran? For example, I like playing sky terran TvP and helion/banshee TvZ. What else is there to do that is fun and not super standard? 3 Fact reactor hellion TvP into mech (usually the toss reacts like shit and dies to the hellions) Mech is rather odd - TvP. Most toss dont know how to react, and when their first push fails horribly (blinking into tank+thors, hellions raping immortals, tanks raping collosi...) they usually turtle, you expand 10 times, PF and siege outside his base, set up 100 turrets throughout entire map and basically you get this dumb standoff that becomes a carrer mship vs ghost thor nuke play lol.
TvZ 14cc into 6rax (2 tech 4 reactor) with +1 armor, 10minute timing push with massive army and a huge chunk of scvs - Usually out right kills him or deals tons of damage with good micro and bad preparation from opponent (holding this completely requires a long ass preparation, not something you can do if a) greedy b) didnt scoutTvP (opener) 8 marine 3-4 hellion 1 medevac pressure expand - you can choose to drop the marines on the main mineral line and rape the probes and he xfers them to the nat mineral, or just a straight up push, or elevator etc etc... High micro + multitask needed because when you push is done hes gonna come for you and you better have something. TvP (opener) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210371 Old as hell, decent, but not as strong as above play and much more risky. TvP (cheese) Same as the hellion drop build, but you get 2 gas instead of one, and after medevac immediately throw down techlab + second starport, while pushing make raven, then double banshee with cloak. Basically if you manage to kill a handful of probes the resulting 4 banshee push will outright kill him (constant marine/hellion/depot production. Cut scvs) Every TvT on KR is unorthordox IMO so I dont know what to dump down. Play toss/zerg, go run around on KR server and into some terrans. They have the weirdest one base plays ever lol. What I posted is actually....standard-ish lol
Could someone give me the bo of this seems interesting  ?
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Hey, i was wandering if anyone here knows any 1 base all ins against terran and zerg. I am at uni and so can only play starcraft of my laptop, and my laptop sucks so everytime the game goes past about 12mins my laptop starts crashing and if storms or fungals etc go down my laptop has a fit haha.
So yeh, if i want to play SC2 on this laptop i need to play games that are quick and/or force the opponent down to 1 base. I already have a build that is very effective against protoss (like 90%) but it fails big time against terran and zerg unless they make a huge mistake.
Alternatively if someone could tell me good timings to hit Z and T so i could make something to hit at that time.
Anyone wandering what the vP build is should watch halbystarcraft on youtube, he does it almost everygame against protoss so just watch his vP games and you will be able to see the build. (The basic idea is to open 2 rax concussive and poke after the first marauder pops out, sometimes you can outright win the game then, but usually you fall back and get another gas and tech toward siege tanks and banshees then hit him again at just before 10 mins and pull a lot of SCVs with you for the attack leaving just enough at home to keep up production facilities. knock down their natural and then set up around their main and keep poking with the banshees and when you get a chance move in for the kill. The reason why the build works is because it hits before any aoe is out, ie storm or collosus, and T 1 base gets more income than P 1 base because of mules.)
I was playing around on YABOT earlier and i came up with a build that i think would work vT but i haven't put it to the test yet and thought i may as well get people thoughts first.
It opens 12-14 rax, 16 refinery, 26 factory, 29 refiney
and then poke at 5mins with 7 marines and rax rallied to marines, this is timed to arrive just before the bunker finishes if he is going 1 rax fe. If he doenst have a bunker you should be able to win the game or do massive damage since he will only have 5 marines at most and 7 beats 5 obviously, and with 2 rax of production vs his 1 rax you should be able to reinforce quicker (he will probably have 2 more rax building so if you dont get into his base quite quicklygo home). Also if he has a finished bunker, go home.
Then the build goes into marine siege tank production.
6:50 build starport (get viking first for vision and cheaper on gas, then get medivacs)
7:25 research siege
Siege should finish at 8:45 so this is the time you aim to arrive at his base so move out at about 8:15 and rally everything to the tanks and pull about 15 SCVs on auto repair.
You should arrive at his base at about 8:50-9:00 with 24 marines, 3 siege tanks and a viking and a whole load of SCVs.
The idea is to hit him before his tech finishes but after he has invested in it, most people i play go 1 rax FE into 3 rax stim +1 medivac timing.
The usual timings are stim finishes @~10:00 +1 @~10:30 medivacs @~10 mins
The time my build hits they should have about 26-30 marines(no upgrades) and a bunker. and i have atleast a full minute before their upgrades kick in and for medivacs to hit the field
As for zerg i dont really have any idea how to got about it. Maybe marauder hellion siege tank banshee? (seems like too much gas for 1 base, maybe leave out marauders since the tanks are good against roaches?)
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Could you tell me some builds to attack before min 10 ~ 15?? The mkp style? one or 2 will be ok so i can use them 
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On September 26 2012 11:42 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 05:22 Kastlo wrote:
Ok, I've got a new one:
I really want to improve my play, and my problem is the mid-late game macro. Do you think that exercises like the ones in dayj's videos are helpfull (and maybe you'll have some others :p), or is there another way around to improve? Are there also any exercises to improve micromanagement? I think yes, they do help. The main thing in mid/late-game macro is not focusing a lot on the units that you have already made and instead focusing on knowing your control groups/hotkeys and always tapping. A lot of my friends that are ranked lower always seem to over-emphasize micro instead of just building more stuff. What really helped me was just constantly tapping 1(barracks) 3(facts/starports) and 4 (all CCs) while watching GSL or a youtube video (not an original idea, just one I leeched off of another TL thread somewhere..) and making sure I could through my cycles of key combinations easily.
Hey, that is awesome, it reminds me of one of my old exercise for guitar technique...Thanks a lot!
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When scouting a protoss, what should I look for and how should I react? Sometimes I see something like double gas or late core and I just don't REALLY know what they mean.
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On September 28 2012 02:28 CyDe wrote:
When scouting a protoss, what should I look for and how should I react? Sometimes I see something like double gas or late core and I just don't REALLY know what they mean.
These are the things you can see before the stalker comes out:
1 gas: 1 gate FE or 4-gate. If he has a lot of chrono/pretty much chrono it's either a 4-gate or 1gate FE with a gateway attack followup. If he doesn't have a lot of chrono it's most likely a standard 1 gate fe. Most of the time you can see whether he chronos warp gate or not, if he does, it's some sort of a gatewayattack, before or after his expansion. Make at least 1 extra bunker, and be prepared to pull scvs.
2 gas: Most of the time it's some sort of cheese/early attack. There are many possibilities: dts, blink+obs(these 2 are the most common when I scout 2 gas), sentry heavy-gateway attack(you'll notice a lot of chrono), void rays, immortal bust or something else. If he only has 2 probes in each geyser it might also be a 1gate fe with some extra gas. If he expands with 2 gases he might go for dts or early colossus after the expansion.
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TvP
Is it possible for a toss to put a 3rd nexus really quick (after looking at the replay, he went 1 gate, expo, cyber, expo + while making sentries) and hold a 1 rax FE bomber +1 2 medivan 5 rax push?
It seemed that by ~10:45 (when I pushed out) he already had 7-8 gates and held it with sentries , stalkers + zealots.
Now, perhaps if I scouted the 3rd earlier, should I just attack before my 2 medivacs? Or standard push and really play the drops to spread him thin?
I was absolutely shocked when his push destroyed mine. Maybe it was a bad engagement (if so then that's that) but my questions till stands
TLDR: Can a toss get a very fast 3rd nexus and go unpunished when you're doing a 1rax bomber +1 medivac timing @ ~10:45
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What should I do if P goes straight for storm? I goes for 1rax FE and by the time my 2-medivac push comes, he already had storm ready to crush my army. Thanks.
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What to do vs collossu + phoenix?
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On September 28 2012 03:20 Bwall wrote:
2 gas: Most of the time it's some sort of cheese/early attack. There are many possibilities: dts, blink+obs(these 2 are the most common when I scout 2 gas), sentry heavy-gateway attack(you'll notice a lot of chrono), void rays, immortal bust or something else. If he only has 2 probes in each geyser it might also be a 1gate fe with some extra gas. If he expands with 2 gases he might go for dts or early colossus after the expansion.
What build does well against all these allins? And take natural or put CC in main? If I bunker up the front of the nat, and he goes prism allin, I die, no?
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On September 26 2012 19:47 Artline wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 19:34 sk1nex wrote:
Hi all, sorry for being ignorant and bumping up a topic that has most likely been talked here countless times in the past. Im a P player switching over to terran, and i'd like to get one somewhat good all-around build for each matchup, that i can start practicing with. The build doesn't need to be pro-level, just something that should produce even decent results in the low / mid tiers. I've found alot of info on these kind of "starter builds" but most of them seem quite outdated. URL's to these builds would do just fine. Thanks in advance. 1 rax expo works in every matchup but its so common that everyone at higher levels take advantage of it. Nevertheless it's a good place to start. Basically: 10 Supply 12 Barracks 15 Orbital 15 Marine (1 and then stop) 16 Command Centre 16 Supply Depot --> start Marines again Against Z you could go double gas into reactor hellion 2x Gas Factory at 100 gas Reactor next 50 gas Switch the two when finished --> Starport or 3rd CC, etc. Then focus on marine/tank/medivac and of course upgrades. Against P you can add Barracks and then go Starport into MMM. 2x Barracks 2x Gas Techlab --> Stim Enbay --> +1 Factory --> Reactor 3rd Gas Starport Poke with 2 medivacs 3rd Against T you could go mech, marine heavy --> tank or tank early or really anything. The metagame always changes so have a look at progamers executing builds on streams.
Thanks alot man. I'm switching from Zerg to Terran.
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This is the thread for questions that don't need their own topics right?
I just want to know if what I've been doing is ever a good idea. I'm a Silver player and I'm just experimenting with different ways to do things.
A few days ago I got the idea to delay factory tech(Siege Tanks and Medivacs) for a faster third CC and quicker upgrades(Stim/Combat Shields/Concussive Shells). It seems to work out fairly well. Although I've only gotten to try it a few times. Is this ever a good idea?
Here's a replay of me doing it. Although I threw down the factory right after the CC. Other times I've done it I didn't have the minerals or gas for that.
http://drop.sc/258591
Edit: If this doesn't belong here I'll gladly edit/delete it.
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EPT
