EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 367
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Kamelixs
Sweden88 Posts
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DwindleFlip
United States32 Posts
The rest of us are borked. User was warned for this post | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On October 01 2012 14:25 DwindleFlip wrote: 5000+ games and still gold. I have no idea how to win with terran anymore. I've won 4 out of my last 18. At best I can keep up macro into a long game but never make turn the tide. I just dont see terran as a viable race unless you have MVP/Teaja blood in you. The rest of us are borked. I don't have MVP/Taeja blood but I still win about 50% of my games in masters, less vs protoss, more vs zerg. If you've played 5000+ games and you're still gold, you should probably ask for help instead of whining about it. EDIT: In fact, well over half your most recent posts are all balance whining about Terran being underpowered, yet you've never posted an actual question or sought help in the strategy forums. So is it Terran being underpowered the only reason you're 5000+ games in and still gold or are you just not taking those steps needed to improve? | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 01 2012 14:25 DwindleFlip wrote: 5000+ games and still gold. I have no idea how to win with terran anymore. I've won 4 out of my last 18. At best I can keep up macro into a long game but never make turn the tide. I just dont see terran as a viable race unless you have MVP/Teaja blood in you. The rest of us are borked. User was warned for this post Mean thing to say about the rest of us who are doing ok :/ | ||
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DwindleFlip
United States32 Posts
I don't have MVP/Taeja blood but I still win about 50% of my games in masters, less vs protoss, more vs zerg. If you've played 5000+ games and you're still gold, you should probably ask for help instead of whining about it. EDIT: In fact, well over half your most recent posts are all balance whining about Terran being underpowered, yet you've never posted an actual question or sought help in the strategy forums. So is it Terran being underpowered the only reason you're 5000+ games in and still gold or are you just not taking those steps needed to improve? I havent asked a lot of questions because I use the search function, watch and listen to day9, filtersc etc. After 5000 games, I know where i've improved, I just cant seem to win enough to progress anywhere. I dont know what I could ask to change that. I've spoken with lots of people, but ultimately advice is just advice. I think at this point its just about being able to do it or not. It seems like everyone else progresses, and I dont. I really dont know what to ask. | ||
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Immutant
Singapore201 Posts
If you still want to stick with Terran, I suggest you try to get someone to coach you. If you want you can even send me a pm. | ||
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herMan
Japan2057 Posts
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Bwall
Sweden145 Posts
On October 01 2012 16:31 DwindleFlip wrote: I havent asked a lot of questions because I use the search function, watch and listen to day9, filtersc etc. After 5000 games, I know where i've improved, I just cant seem to win enough to progress anywhere. I dont know what I could ask to change that. I've spoken with lots of people, but ultimately advice is just advice. I think at this point its just about being able to do it or not. It seems like everyone else progresses, and I dont. I really dont know what to ask. Just upload a replay and ask what you can improve, but it sounds that you just dont have the mechanics/ speed to be able to beat better players. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 30 2012 05:30 whiskypriest wrote: I guess I should be more specific. Does anyone have an optimized TvP hellion drop into banshee/tank/marine all-in build order? I can't write actual numbers from memory but it goes this way: - Barracks → 6 Marines → Reactor with the 50 gas following the Medivac. - Factory (as soon as you have 100 gas from 13 Refinery, i. e. around the 3'20 mark) → 3 Hellions → Tech Lab → produce Tanks. - Starport (as soon as Factory is complete) → Medivac → Tech Lab → produce Banshees. Take your second gas around 35-38 supply, should be around the time you start your Medivac. Add +2 Barracks while your add-ons are building. Since your second gas is late you won't be able to produce constantly Tanks and Banshees, there will be some gaps; of course you don't get Cloak (no resources for that). Delay Siege Mode to slip in one more Banshee. I can test the build order in a game if that's not clear/precise enough for you. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On October 02 2012 03:39 TheDwf wrote: I can't write actual numbers from memory but it goes this way: - Barracks → 6 Marines → Reactor with the 50 gas following the Medivac. I think there's 2 versions for barracks production. One is 3 marines -> reactor, which gets you 7 marines in time for the hellion/marine drop/attack. The other is 8 marines -> reactor which gets you 8 marines for the drop/attack, but leaves you wide open with 0 defenses for a minute while you're attacking. Also, as a benchmark, the hellion drop should get to your opponents' base at 6:50 on a relatively normal sized map. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On October 02 2012 03:48 monk. wrote: I think there's 2 versions for barracks production. One is 3 marines -> reactor, which gets you 7 marines in time for the hellion/marine drop/attack. The other is 8 marines -> reactor which gets you 8 marines for the drop/attack, but leaves you wide open with 0 defenses for a minute while you're attacking. Also, as a benchmark, the hellion drop should get to your opponents' base at 6:50 on a relatively normal sized map. Yes, you can make a Reactor after 3 Marines, but this delays your Medivac by ~20 seconds. I use this opening in TvT, you can have 9 Marines by the time the Medivac is complete with this early Reactor. Upon testing, I wrote 6 Marines before Reactor because you have 50 spare gas right after the 6th Marine comes out. Time-wise you can have a 7th Marine in your drop/attack, but you will have to wait ~10-15 seconds to have 8 Marines in the drop/attack if your Refinery/Factory/Starport timings were tight. | ||
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Kamwah
United Kingdom724 Posts
On October 01 2012 15:50 padfoota wrote: Mean thing to say about the rest of us who are doing ok :/ Not really, he's insisting we must be infused with MVP/Taeja blood! =D | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
One reason you might not want to get a reactor early is for the mind-game benefits. | ||
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iAmiAnC
United Kingdom317 Posts
Should I deviate from my build in some way to hold it? Go up to 4/5 Barracks without Factory/Starport? Try to get Siege Tanks out? Can I afford to make some sort of Turret and/or Bunker at the Blink-in area in my main (probably not always a viable option anyway)? Should I go for Combat Shield before Stimpack, expecting the all-in to hit before ~9mins? How can I know Blink Stalkers are coming rather than another double gas 1 base play? (such as DTs, I don't feel I can be randomly scanning bits of the Protoss base at 7-8mins looking for a Twilight) I've uploaded a replay of a fairly "typical" loss to a 1 base Blink Stalker play. In this particular game I went Combat Shield before Stimpack with the thinking that the all-in would hit prior to a stim timing. I left 8 Marines in Bunkers which turned out to be a mistake, although I have lost several games where the Protoss blinks into my main with a mid sized force and busts the front as I unload the Bunkers. There we some definite mistakes in the replay (such as pulling SCVs too early), but that just lead to a landslide loss rather than a medium sized loss. I should have had vision of the top left of my base with a depot (or something) too, which would have given me vision of the Pylon warp in. I think that was just bad on his part rather than something I can rely upon every time. I'm a mid (I guess?) Master EU player, and obviously I could macro and micro better etc. but I cannot seem to deal with these all-ins very well regardless of how I'm playing. Replay Link (drop.sc) | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
The other times I don't think I'd try and get them, I'd get a fast 4-5 rax like you say and skip reactors until later on. Once you know it's coming then yes get a turret/bunker in your main. Try to be really on your toes with spotting that first obs, if you can snipe that with a scan you have bought yourself so much time. I'd still stick with stimpack first, while it may take longer it is much much more important. Marines in bunkers don't need sheilds anyway, nor do marauders. Best way to scout it is having a ninja unit out on the map, try and spot his composition, that's the biggest tell. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On October 02 2012 05:02 iAmiAnC wrote: Should I deviate from my build in some way to hold it? Yes, you need 2 Tech Labs as soon as possible to build Marauders. I like to research Concussive Shells with one TL and Stim with the other but it's up to you. Be very careful about the position of your TLs as Blink Stalkers will inevitably try to snipe them. On October 02 2012 05:02 iAmiAnC wrote: Go up to 4/5 Barracks without Factory/Starport? You can stay on 3 Barracks before Factory, but 4 is probably safer. Your Factory will be delayed anyway. On October 02 2012 05:02 iAmiAnC wrote: Try to get Siege Tanks out? No. On October 02 2012 05:02 iAmiAnC wrote: Can I afford to make some sort of Turret and/or Bunker at the Blink-in area in my main (probably not always a viable option anyway)? Yes for Bunkers, no point for Turrets. On October 02 2012 05:02 iAmiAnC wrote: How can I know Blink Stalkers are coming rather than another double gas 1 base play? (such as DTs, I don't feel I can be randomly scanning bits of the Protoss base at 7-8mins looking for a Twilight) Usually signs are: - Dual gas - 3 Pylons in his base, usually with one of them being able to power buildings in a hidden or semi-hidden corner of the base - No early expand - You saw only Stalkers (sometimes they build a Zealot, but usually they don't; sure thing is they don't get a Sentry) - One Stalker stays in front of his natural to deny further scouting - No early proxy around your base (though sometimes the Robotics is proxied...). The map can be a big indication too, Protoss players sure love their Blink Stalkers all-ins on Antiga. If you're unsure, have a scan ready at the 7'15 - 7'30 mark, this is when DTs show up. This way, if it happens to be Blink Stalkers, you can try to snipe the Observer if the Protoss player is careless. — Leaving 8 Marines in your Bunker was the fatal mistake. You had 21 Marines and 20 SCVs (in your main) to 11 Stalkers, it would have been really easy to fend him off had you taken the time to gather your troops together and engage with SCVs in the front and Marines behind. Here, you first engaged with SCVs alone, then with half of your Marines; it cannot work as Blink Stalkers' strength precisely lies in dealing very efficiently with small group of units. Your opponent's build order was impossible to read as it made zero sense. He went for a very delayed second gas so there was no way you could have guessed he was going for a delayed Blink all-in; that being said, scanning his main at 7'50 (which you can do even if he does expand) would have revealed his plan. Basically, he made something rather stupid which happened to work not only because you panicked, but also because you went for full Marines with delayed Stim and Medivacs; against a standard 1 rax FE → 3 rax medivacs, attacking at 8'30 (standard timing is 7'15 - 7'30 with 7-8 Blink Stalkers) would be too late as Stim would be nearly complete and 2 Medivacs could already be on the way given the fact that his build looked like a 1 gate expand. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
He was very diligent with his zealot tracking down your SCV, perhaps hide it somewhere less obvious. I mean if you had walked in at around 7:30 and seen only stalkers that would be confirmation right there. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On October 02 2012 06:27 monkybone wrote: Is there any reason not to go gas first with this? I personally would recommend gas first, I don't know the downsides if any. Considering the timing of the hellion drop is so important. its easy to scout for protoss, they will almost always get into your base and know that you've taken gas first and therefor they will defend with no problem. Also early aggression is hard to hold off with gas first. With gas after rax you can throw down the 2nd supply before the rax is finished and keep the probe out of your base | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
I can't stop blowing games in TvP with my army command. I freak out every time I see HT and colossi and can't control my army worth a damn. How can I correct what happened in the replay (engagements)? They start around 15:00. | ||
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