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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On January 23 2013 18:27 ineversmile wrote:
I'm not sure I understand what the wall-off means. Is he walling his natural with depots/bunkers? Or is he just going 3 OC in his main and then floating them down later?
It sounds like you're getting beat by 3 OC because DTs...well, they suck against 3 OC. He has 3 times the scans. Of course DTs are going to be weak against that opener.
I mean he's just going 3 OC in his main and then floating them down later.
Even if the DTs don't do damage, it's not a big deal because I am already set for Chargelot/Archon. The problem is that if I attack, he always seems to have enough units to defend, and if I just take a third, I'm already behind because he already has 3 OCs up and running.
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On January 24 2013 04:00 Gumbi wrote:
Gate Nexus builds (after Pylon, Assim, Core, Zealot) are doable, they're not so bad on multiple spawn maps. But they auto lose vs early pools (anything before 10). Apart from that, they're really strong builds.
I've never had trouble dealing with early pools when going gate nexus (i do scout after gate though). You have to adjust ur build a bit but IMO u still end up way ahead.
I actually do a pylon gate wall at the ramp most games (I basically copy Eifer's gate nexus exactly and he does this wall). It's less economical and worse against early pools, but i disagree that it doesn't help against later timings. Having a back up wall is extremely helpful if the zerg gets aggressive and makes additional lings while u are trying to set up ur wall at the natural.
Interestingly enough, i only go gate at the ramp when i go gate nexus, and never wall off if im going gate core cos it's pointless in that scenario. Maybe Eifer and I are alone in this thought, but i think gate at ramp when going gate nexus has more advantages than disadvantages.
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United States8476 Posts
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On January 24 2013 07:01 monk wrote:
If your opponent somehow defends your 1 base DTs perfectly with 3 OC, then you're already impossibly behind. Then again, he's taking a big risk if he scouted 1 base Protoss and still going 3 OC. If you did any all-in build, he would have died.
It's a DT Expand that hits around 7:50.
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Canada13407 Posts
On January 24 2013 08:20 cohen5250 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 07:01 monk wrote:
If your opponent somehow defends your 1 base DTs perfectly with 3 OC, then you're already impossibly behind. Then again, he's taking a big risk if he scouted 1 base Protoss and still going 3 OC. If you did any all-in build, he would have died. It's a DT Expand that hits around 7:50.
That is still 1 base DTs regardless of if you expand or not. In the end you will be behind vs 3 OC. If the DTs do no damage then the terran is probably going be at your door within 4 minutes with medivacs and you wont have much to defend the timing, or if he is smart he will just get a big army and drop you while doing so if you leave your base.
Archon/Chargelot with DT archons is not a very strong unit composition.
Your upgrades are behind, your AoE is late, your map awareness is limited (no observers) and your economy is impossibly behind.
To put it into perspective a protoss who goes for 1 gate FE should be about 8 workers ahead of terran by the 10 minute mark with AoE on the way or done to survive a medivac timing off a 1 rax FE or 3 cc style build (perhaps 11 for the 3 OC because the 3rd oc pushes back the timing). If terran is on 2 base you should have 5 or 6 gateways up and if they are taking a third you should have your nexus started at a similar timing to terran taking their third.
If you consider the above, a 7:50 expo DT expand is not a very good opening vs 3 OC. This is what monk is referring to.
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Hi, I'm still in silver league.
I have been mostly losing to terran in macro games. What do I do if he has mass mauraders or mass marines? What units should I be aiming for? By the time he pushes out I can't get my HT and storm done before then. Should I be aiming down medivacs in fights? I am using 1 gate FE. I do not expand to 3rd base if I don't see him expand to 3rd base. Thanks!
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Italy12246 Posts
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On January 24 2013 09:41 kuruptt wrote:
Hi, I'm still in silver league.
I have been mostly losing to terran in macro games. What do I do if he has mass mauraders or mass marines? What units should I be aiming for? By the time he pushes out I can't get my HT and storm done before then. Should I be aiming down medivacs in fights? I am using 1 gate FE. I do not expand to 3rd base if I don't see him expand to 3rd base. Thanks!
Can you post a replay. It seems like your just lacking AOE or enough units at this time to hold off his pressure. You should be having at least 6 gates if your going HT and not collosus, probably more like 8-9 depending on when he hits.
EDIT: Teotia -.-
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Italy12246 Posts
Deheheehe dat blue poster speed. Also, it's Teoita, don't pull a wax on me.
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I recently faced proxy 2 rax on ladder on Ohana and made a forge defensively. I'm assuming this shouldn't normally work?
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Italy12246 Posts
Hmm dunno. Tbh the easy way to hold it is just to make your third pylon at the ramp and wall off with 2 extra gates when you see the scv's being pulled. The walloff buys so much time, the defense ends up being pretty trivial.
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So I should just get a core instead and chrono out stalkers?
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On January 24 2013 10:01 mizU wrote:
I recently faced proxy 2 rax on ladder on Ohana and made a forge defensively. I'm assuming this shouldn't normally work?
It does work, but I don't think it's ideal if you opened with a normally timed gate. If you were doing something like pylon scout --> nexus first, and saw no raxes in his base, gateway forge works.
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On January 24 2013 09:56 MysteryMeat1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 09:41 kuruptt wrote:
Hi, I'm still in silver league.
I have been mostly losing to terran in macro games. What do I do if he has mass mauraders or mass marines? What units should I be aiming for? By the time he pushes out I can't get my HT and storm done before then. Should I be aiming down medivacs in fights? I am using 1 gate FE. I do not expand to 3rd base if I don't see him expand to 3rd base. Thanks! Can you post a replay. It seems like your just lacking AOE or enough units at this time to hold off his pressure. You should be having at least 6 gates if your going HT and not collosus, probably more like 8-9 depending on when he hits. EDIT: Teotia -.-
I am indeed lacking AOE. What aoe units should I be making? He's mostly going all bio. Should I be aiming down medivacs or will click A be fine? I usually go colossus + HT. Well I try to, but he ends up attacking me before I can get it out fast enough. I'm probably not macroing hard enough.
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Italy12246 Posts
On January 24 2013 10:10 mizU wrote:
So I should just get a core instead and chrono out stalkers?
Yep, that and the wall off is how i do it and i haven't lost to it in months.
@koruptt: read the threads i linked.
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Canada13407 Posts
On January 24 2013 10:00 Teoita wrote:
Deheheehe dat blue poster speed. Also, it's Teoita, don't pull a wax on me.
Easy way to remember:
Teo is Italian
On January 24 2013 10:13 kuruptt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 09:56 MysteryMeat1 wrote:On January 24 2013 09:41 kuruptt wrote:
Hi, I'm still in silver league.
I have been mostly losing to terran in macro games. What do I do if he has mass mauraders or mass marines? What units should I be aiming for? By the time he pushes out I can't get my HT and storm done before then. Should I be aiming down medivacs in fights? I am using 1 gate FE. I do not expand to 3rd base if I don't see him expand to 3rd base. Thanks! Can you post a replay. It seems like your just lacking AOE or enough units at this time to hold off his pressure. You should be having at least 6 gates if your going HT and not collosus, probably more like 8-9 depending on when he hits. EDIT: Teotia -.- I am indeed lacking AOE. What aoe units should I be making? He's mostly going all bio. Should I be aiming down medivacs or will click A be fine? I usually go colossus + HT. Well I try to, but he ends up attacking me before I can get it out fast enough. I'm probably not macroing hard enough.
Honestly, in Silver league you should be making collossus for your AoE if you want it to be reliable. If you macro better than your opponent and have stalkers, collossus, and some zealots you should win pretty easily without much micro necessary.
Of course if you could post 2 or 3 PvT replays we can help beyond this. I think you are most likely losing due to probe count and supply blocks and less because of your build order or anything else along those lines.
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On January 24 2013 10:40 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 10:00 Teoita wrote:
Deheheehe dat blue poster speed. Also, it's Teoita, don't pull a wax on me. Easy way to remember: Teo is Italian
mind=blown
that's got to be on purpose
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Canada13407 Posts
On January 24 2013 10:41 Mavvie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 10:40 ZeromuS wrote:On January 24 2013 10:00 Teoita wrote:
Deheheehe dat blue poster speed. Also, it's Teoita, don't pull a wax on me. Easy way to remember: Teo is Italian mind=blown that's got to be on purpose
I've never asked but you are probably right 
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In PvP, is it normal to be very rarely using your gateways on 2 bases? I find that I generally end up spending all my money on double Robo Colossus, upgrades (1 forge), and probes/pylons, while very rarely actually getting to build zealots. It seems to work pretty well, but it just seems...wrong. Once I take a third, I tend to add on a third robo when I'm about to reach the magic number of 8 Colossi, and then pump out Immortals, and that gives me the extra money to make Archons and Chargelots. But the end result is that I end up with a rather small, extremely gas-heavy army throughout the mid-game. Since people basically never attack me due to the Colossi defensive advantage, it's been working. But should it?
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On January 24 2013 11:29 Salivanth wrote:
In PvP, is it normal to be very rarely using your gateways on 2 bases? I find that I generally end up spending all my money on double Robo Colossus, upgrades (1 forge), and probes/pylons, while very rarely actually getting to build zealots. It seems to work pretty well, but it just seems...wrong. Once I take a third, I tend to add on a third robo when I'm about to reach the magic number of 8 Colossi, and then pump out Immortals, and that gives me the extra money to make Archons and Chargelots. But the end result is that I end up with a rather small, extremely gas-heavy army throughout the mid-game. Since people basically never attack me due to the Colossi defensive advantage, it's been working. But should it?
Yes, that's the standard way to play PvP. Most of the time i go up to 4gate on 2 base PvP with double robo, but it's just for safety and u will hardly need to use it. You want to warp in as little units as possible so u can spend ur money on more expensive units, however u need to keep an eye on ur opponent's unit count and make sure he's doing the same thing before getting too greedy. If the game ends up being a very passive 3 base Pvp, then u want to end up with an army very similar if not identical to Rain's composition which u seem to be doing. Having those extra gates just allows u to warp in units if in danger (and eventually u want a ton of gates so u can reinforce with chargelots)
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EPT
