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On September 17 2012 11:02 Mavvie wrote:
Anyone played against a gas first into 3rax (all with reactor) marine all-in? It hits right when WG finishes, and fakes an expand. He built a bunker at his front, but I scouted no CC so knew it was a 1base gas all-in. However, it was just pure marine, only mining 150 gas for 3 reactors. He overwhelmed me with superior production, killing me around 9:00.
How do I react to fast gas openers? I also lost to a hellion drop killing 80% of my probes because I was being aggressive with my zealot/2x stalker. Does him taking a fast gas require me to be passive?
Could you upload the replays?
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On September 17 2012 11:07 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 11:02 Mavvie wrote:
Anyone played against a gas first into 3rax (all with reactor) marine all-in? It hits right when WG finishes, and fakes an expand. He built a bunker at his front, but I scouted no CC so knew it was a 1base gas all-in. However, it was just pure marine, only mining 150 gas for 3 reactors. He overwhelmed me with superior production, killing me around 9:00.
How do I react to fast gas openers? I also lost to a hellion drop killing 80% of my probes because I was being aggressive with my zealot/2x stalker. Does him taking a fast gas require me to be passive? Could you upload the replays?
I'll upload the one about the 3rax reactor all in, but I'd like a general answer to dealing with gas openers. I know that scouting is covered in MC's 1gate FE guide, but I didn't find much. I scouted a bunker and no marauders, but I knew he opened gas first. I expected cloakshees, so went stalker heavy.
The second game I scouted rax->gas and didn't know what to do. I poked the front and lost all my probes right as WG came online.
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On September 17 2012 11:13 Mavvie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 11:07 rd wrote:On September 17 2012 11:02 Mavvie wrote:
Anyone played against a gas first into 3rax (all with reactor) marine all-in? It hits right when WG finishes, and fakes an expand. He built a bunker at his front, but I scouted no CC so knew it was a 1base gas all-in. However, it was just pure marine, only mining 150 gas for 3 reactors. He overwhelmed me with superior production, killing me around 9:00.
How do I react to fast gas openers? I also lost to a hellion drop killing 80% of my probes because I was being aggressive with my zealot/2x stalker. Does him taking a fast gas require me to be passive? Could you upload the replays? I'll upload the one about the 3rax reactor all in, but I'd like a general answer to dealing with gas openers. I know that scouting is covered in MC's 1gate FE guide, but I didn't find much. I scouted a bunker and no marauders, but I knew he opened gas first. I expected cloakshees, so went stalker heavy. The second game I scouted rax->gas and didn't know what to do. I poked the front and lost all my probes right as WG came online.
Your timings aren't really making sense, which is why the replay would help to clear things up. If you 1 gate core expand at 26-30 supply producing stalkers, then yes, you can be aggressive. His hellions should only be popping out when your stalker first arrives. If he walled in he'll HAVE to pull scvs or you'll just supply block every other hellion and outright kill him. But if he goes gas first fast reactor skipping the marine, he won't even have a bunker. 4-5 chrono-boosted stalkers can kill this outright.
Your poke however should arrive almost two minutes before WG would finish with a single cboost, every other cboost on stalkers. I'd upload the replay just because your description seems to be missing something.
edit: If he does get a bunker at his ramp with a marine in it, you can't really attack into it with a zealot/2 stalker poke. Seeing gas first/bunker should provoke you to produce stalkers for the next 1-2 minutes with a robo after the nexus is planted. Stalkers at the edge of your base, etc. One base Banshees, Hellion drops or any follow-up all-ins (1/1/1, marauder/hellion) can be held this way.
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For gas openers you chrono units instead of chronoing warpgates. Then its just a matter of knowing timings. throw down 2 additional gateways around 5:20 i think and a robo around 6 i want to say. You should also keep a probe somewhere on the map just in case you get contained in ur base and kill ur main. You can poke his ramp with the 1 zealot stalker to see what he has. if you just scout marines then keep 2 stalker in your main to deal with banshees and hellion drops. if he stays on one base you should go up to 5 gateways and about 44 probes.
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On September 17 2012 11:26 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
For gas openers you chrono units instead of chronoing warpgates. Then its just a matter of knowing timings. throw down 2 additional gateways around 5:20 i think and a robo around 6 i want to say. You should also keep a probe somewhere on the map just in case you get contained in ur base and kill ur main. You can poke his ramp with the 1 zealot stalker to see what he has. if you just scout marines then keep 2 stalker in your main to deal with banshees and hellion drops. if he stays on one base you should go up to 5 gateways and about 44 probes.
whilst i agree with virtually all of this surely going up to 44 probes against 1 base terran means his all-in hits whilst you are still probing up, cutting somewhere in the 30's gives you a larger army for when his attack hits. especially as if you are going for 5 gates and a robo the natural gases aren't really necessary so that's less probes you need.
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can someone please link or give me a build order for 1 base colluses PvP? i can't seem to find anything relevant.
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Hi gus, silver protoss here looking for some helps.
I'm looking for a simple BO/strategy to help get me out of low level league, somethings that equivalent to terran 3 rax stim timing that hit around 7-8 mins to apply pressure and perhaps transition later, I know some of you may think I should practice macro and try to early expand, but it is not working for me since there are so many cheeses in low level, more over this pressure also help improving mechanics(always build workers and keep money low). That why I'm looking for a build that can apply pressure(so I have my army units early to defense against cheese) and transition later.
For PvT : I found 3 gate pressure is what I'm looking for but for PvP and PvZ, I cant find find any BO that work this way
Thanks in advance :3
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Italy12248 Posts
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What is the best way to deny drops as protoss?
User was temp banned for this post.
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Wow. Monk. Youre amazing.
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Can someone give some tips about hot to play when Terran takes an early gas. This indicates early banshees or an early hellion drop. When you see this, do you 2/3gate expand ? Do you pressure with your initial gates ? Can you give me some timings that a good Terran will hit with a Hellion drop. Any strats/alls-ins/transitions would be great.
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On September 18 2012 01:59 scsequeL wrote:
Can someone give some tips about hot to play when Terran takes an early gas. This indicates early banshees or an early hellion drop. When you see this, do you 2/3gate expand ? Do you pressure with your initial gates ? Can you give me some timings that a good Terran will hit with a Hellion drop. Any strats/alls-ins/transitions would be great.
If you follow MC's 1 gate fe you should poke with ur zealot stalker to confirm what he is spending his gas on. What I like to do after scouting gas with my initial probe is to make sure it gets out of his base with zero hull dmg. If you manage this you can get past a marine if his stutter stepping is less than perfect for another scout. You should also poke with ur zealot stalker and if you confirm a factory chrono a more stalker heavy army. At this point you throw down two more gate ways.and your robo slightly after.
4 different scenarios:
hellions without dropshipped. These come earlier so to deal with this i keep a zealot at the watchtower and two stalkers on the ramp. I don't like to transfer probes to my main until all three gateways come up.
2. Hellion drop ill warp in two more stalkers and keep them in drop zones.
3. you already have the stalkers from the potential hellions all you need is obs. Depending on when your robo finishes you may want to keep your 1st obs at home.
4. 1-1-1
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Italy12248 Posts
Adding on to that, there's always the possibility of some bio opening, wether it's reaper expand, marauder expand, or an aggressive 2rax. The correct reactions to those are also covered in Monk's 1gate fe guide, as well as in kcdc's pvt guide.
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does anyone have a replay of the PvP 4 gate warp prism all in? also, are 4 gate blink all ins and phoenix gate all ins still good in PvP? replays or build orders of those would be great. thanks!
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Looking for some help as a new Protoss player [I main Zerg and my smurf account is usually Terran] I have a replay from this week that I think showcases my level as Protoss at the moment and I'd like someone with more experience to go through them and hopefully see something I haven't noticed about me or the build.
PvP in Antiga Shipyard, I have been trying a 2gate Robo FE build in PvP because I just don't like early gateway timings. It worked very well in this game and to be honest I don't think my opponent had a chance as long as I didn't make a big mistake but I think its a great example of where my Macro is at the moment and the build as a whole.
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=271608
As far as the build goes, the original idea I got from watching an old Day9 Daily so I'm not some kind of magic build maker, but I did change a couple things to suit me better. I'll take anything you guys notice, I've gone through the replay a couple times and noticed some things but I'm sure you fine folks from Aiur know more.
Thanks :D
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On September 19 2012 08:57 Vaalyr wrote:Looking for some help as a new Protoss player [I main Zerg and my smurf account is usually Terran] I have a replay from this week that I think showcases my level as Protoss at the moment and I'd like someone with more experience to go through them and hopefully see something I haven't noticed about me or the build. PvP in Antiga Shipyard, I have been trying a 2gate Robo FE build in PvP because I just don't like early gateway timings. It worked very well in this game and to be honest I don't think my opponent had a chance as long as I didn't make a big mistake but I think its a great example of where my Macro is at the moment and the build as a whole. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=271608As far as the build goes, the original idea I got from watching an old Day9 Daily so I'm not some kind of magic build maker, but I did change a couple things to suit me better. I'll take anything you guys notice, I've gone through the replay a couple times and noticed some things but I'm sure you fine folks from Aiur know more. Thanks :D
Okay so I'll help you out with some refinement.
PvP is all about information, there are a lot of different things either player could be doing, and all these things typically require many different responses, depending on what you are doing. That being said, you dropped your robo and a second gate before getting your first gateway unit--not only will your opponent know what your are doing, but if was doing, lets say, a 3 stalker opening, he could have run in, sniped your stalker, and gotten a lot of probe kills before you had any units to defend, while doing that he could have dropped an expo, so he would be massively ahead. Or he could have used his saved up CB on warpgate, not taken his secondgas, and 4 gated you; even by the 7:15 minute mark, you would have still not had enough to defend a 4 gate, which usually hits at 5:45.
Here ( http://drop.sc/254669 ) is my execution of the build in this game (I'm CrazyFirefox); though the replay is nearly 3 months old, this is still a viable execution. I wish I could get a more recent one, but I've been doing blink obs as of late, so I don't have any good ones.
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United States4883 Posts
Could someone tell me the general timing for checking for a 3rd base in PvZ? I've been playing a lot of PvZ with FFE and I mostly just play by feel, but I've never been able to get an exact read on the point of diversion between zerg going 3 hatches or going 2-hatch aggression. Also, if you don't mind, could you explain toss's reaction to each of the following scenarios:
1) scout 3rd, no 3rd, poke into main, see gas
2) scout 3rd, no 3rd, probes dies before seeing gas or tech
3) scout 3rd, 3rd IS up, 3rd is somewhat late, poke into main, see gas
4) scout 3rd, 3rd IS up, 3rd is really early, no gas
Feel free to group things up if that makes it easier to answer.
Thanks!
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United States8477 Posts
On September 19 2012 22:17 SC2John wrote:
Could someone tell me the general timing for checking for a 3rd base in PvZ? I've been playing a lot of PvZ with FFE and I mostly just play by feel, but I've never been able to get an exact read on the point of diversion between zerg going 3 hatches or going 2-hatch aggression. Also, if you don't mind, could you explain toss's reaction to each of the following scenarios:
1) scout 3rd, no 3rd, poke into main, see gas
2) scout 3rd, no 3rd, probes dies before seeing gas or tech
3) scout 3rd, 3rd IS up, 3rd is somewhat late, poke into main, see gas
4) scout 3rd, 3rd IS up, 3rd is really early, no gas
Feel free to group things up if that makes it easier to answer.
Thanks!
3rd base generally goes down between 4:00 and 4:30. Closer to 4:00 if they skip the first queen(rare), closer to 4:30 if they don't (common). You should probably scout a bit after 4:30, I'd say 4:40ish so that your probe can spot incoming drones to the third on your way to his main should he chose a slightly later timing.
1 and 2 are similar. If he has no third by 4:40, and for some reason has no gas, he's playing inefficiently, so you might as well be safe. You have to account for all the 2 base all-in possibilities as well as all the 2 base macro plays. Baneling bust, Roach all-in, different nydus plays, proxy spines, 2 base baneling drop all-in, 2 base muta, 2 base infestor, 2 base low econ standard play. Basically, at least 2 cannons at front, start making sentries, get vision of your entire base, get some decently fast gates, have something versus both infestors and mutalisks. Seed vs Suhosin shows a decent response that covers all of these.
3 means they're either doing a 3 hatch baneling bust, a hatch cancel roach/baneling bust, or a defensive speedling opening, usually into fast lair. You'll can scout each of these out from speed timings, and again, sentries are key.
4 is standard, do w/e. Also, no fast speedlings, so fast 3rd base is safe.
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EPT
