EPTIf the P tries to also take a fast third with his DT map control, use drops to negate the fact that he can harass you during your move-out. If he defends with DTs at your drop, just pick up and get out.
Carthac fighting!
[Q] TvP Best response to 3 gate DT expand - Page 3
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panzzzzz
United States109 Posts
If the P tries to also take a fast third with his DT map control, use drops to negate the fact that he can harass you during your move-out. If he defends with DTs at your drop, just pick up and get out. Carthac fighting! | ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
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cristo1122
Australia505 Posts
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mythe
United States24 Posts
Something like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197990 | ||
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Nairi
Finland75 Posts
Taking a fast third base: It is a good Response, however what happends if Protoss also goes for one, and vs a good Protoss you will need to spend a few scans to get up the turrets to properly protect it. Raven Push: What needs to be considered is that to get a raven out, the terran has to tech about as far as the Protoss has to get dt. Granted, raven is really good vs dt, but Protoss can always make archons meaning it will come down to micro. (assuming equal amounts of expanding) Mech transition: This Actually has nothing to do with DTs, or dealing with the harrass. In theory it sounds great, but how do you actually get there in practice? How do you deal with DTs? (getting ebay or raven is not really optimal if you want to go mech) Getting the ghosts first is ofc one option, but quite risky and somewhat hard to pull of. Also, If I were Protoss I would be pretty fast to put up a robo bay after my harrass, somekinda detection(and spotting for potential drops) is needed. Typical MMM expand with drops: The problem with 3 rax is that it hits too late, the dts will already be out and typicly you will not have enough scans to march to the other side of the map. Cloak Banshee: If he goes dt and you go cloak banshee with a wall-of. You will get an almost free win. However you cannot do this reactionally (must be pre-planned). But from what I've seen Happy does this often and he is quite succesful, from what I can figure out protoss cannot hard counter this without taking some risks himself. The 2 rax conc push: Is what I do vs toss, I feel its the best all-round build. Best case is that you kill him, but this is rare and moving up the ramp is very risky, 1 gate FE is shut down however. But in any case you can see his unit composition, which really should tip you off. If it seems he is teching I usually scan to see if its robo(noone hides a robo). If not I assume dt or voidray(proxied), which in either case will require a starport (raven or viking). Just to be sure I save energy for scans. | ||
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bunnymuncher
Canada112 Posts
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k!llua
Australia895 Posts
the most likely transition from a dt will probably be a heavy zealot/archon mix, and you'll need ghosts + upgrades to deal with it. a 10 minute push with 2-3 ghosts, plus a couple of scans saved up should be enough to win the game. (ofc this is dependent on you getting a turret at your mineral line by 7min otherwise you're going to waste a lot of scans and your push will be very weak) | ||
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andis35
Latvia346 Posts
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
~Day9's worst contribution to the SC2 community. p.s. Don't get all butthurt, especially if you don't even know what I mean. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On July 25 2011 12:12 BrisklyGrape wrote: Just go fucking kill him. As Day9 would say. If he's going DTs before the 6 minute mark he just will not have enough units to hold off a standard 2 rax with conc shell push unless you engage poorly. Otherwise just out expand him, get a turret in each mineral line and your entrance and... win? I am a protoss and TBH I hate DT expand builds because of how vulnerable they are to early game pressure. I 2 rax, reactor first, conc shell pressure/scout every TvP. With FF's + Ramp, you would be hard pressed to kill him with a 2 rax pressure. However, if he controls poorly, you may be able to sneak an SCV up the ramp and snipe a sentry. Maybe. | ||
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vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
This build looks similar to two gas 3-gate expand into 6 gate 2-base attack. Both gets 2 gases with stalkers to deny scouting. So sometimes I expect DT/Void Ray, get engineering bay/turret only to get crushed by the 6gate attack. "Just go f'ing donate your army to cloaked units!" indeed. You guys are talking too much about "I know exactly what's hes gonna do and going to perfectly counter it with this BO" or about what you're going to do. It's much more important to see what the Protoss is doing (the timings), what scouting info you can gather, and how you can figure out his build. 3gate DT seems like a solid build. The 3gates should give enough units to defend vs anything. Any decent Protoss can cut your army in half if you try to go up the ramp. A reaper opening might be useful in scouting this though. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
However, you can't really scout a DT expand during a game and then be able to do your build as reaction to it, however you can save scans, build a raven, get turrets up in time, and then abuse your eco and army advantage to convert it into a win. Standard bio play with some ghost and a fast third should set you up nicely to for a win, and utilize the early e-bay for fast upgrades, you should have a sick 2-2 timing with 2-4 ghosts, and a sizeable bioball, heavy marine count will help deal with the larger number of zealots. | ||
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Carthac
United States393 Posts
On July 26 2011 00:04 k!llua wrote: either 1 rax gasless FE or 1 rax concussive shells push FE into fast ebay (5:30-6:30) followed by a ghost academy at 8 min the most likely transition from a dt will probably be a heavy zealot/archon mix, and you'll need ghosts + upgrades to deal with it. a 10 minute push with 2-3 ghosts, plus a couple of scans saved up should be enough to win the game. (ofc this is dependent on you getting a turret at your mineral line by 7min otherwise you're going to waste a lot of scans and your push will be very weak) I really like this idea. I feel the fast ebay will do great vs DTs and void ray pushes as well. I can put down the turret, then if I discover it is DTs hit him with a 3 ghost stim push on most any map while progressing my tech to aid me in the late game. The push has the capability to do a lot of damage while allowing me to start a 3rd base as well | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
Just save a scan or build your CC/OC in base and get ghosts it's not that hard to defend. In fact, DT expand is pretty fragile because it loses to a lot of early pressure | ||
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k!llua
Australia895 Posts
i can post a replay of me doing a +1 ghost timing hit vs a mid-ranked GM player on SEA when i get home if you like. from memory, however, my macro is a bit sloppy in places so i don't have quite as many units as i should (i think im about 10-15 supply short). | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:48 k!llua wrote: keep in mind every turret you place beyond the first one (considering that you're upgrading +1 weapons) is going to delay your factory (which means medivacs) that much sooner, if you're producing constantly out of 3 rax (which is the most normal transition from any 1 rax expand, gasless or otherwise). i can post a replay of me doing a +1 ghost timing hit vs a mid-ranked GM player on SEA when i get home if you like. from memory, however, my macro is a bit sloppy in places so i don't have quite as many units as i should (i think im about 10-15 supply short). If you know DTs or Voids are coming the medivacs aren't really a priority, though, right? | ||
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k!llua
Australia895 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:49 tehemperorer wrote: If you know DTs or Voids are coming the medivacs aren't really a priority, though, right? DTs, not so much, but Vikings will help a lot against the Voids. edit: i'm not saying you'll get the vikings out in time for the void rays, but if you're facing sustained 3 gate VR pressure, you might have a situation where you're still fending off the pressure and then you have the option of getting the vikings out instead of a medivac. | ||
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Carthac
United States393 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:48 k!llua wrote: keep in mind every turret you place beyond the first one (considering that you're upgrading +1 weapons) is going to delay your factory (which means medivacs) that much sooner, if you're producing constantly out of 3 rax (which is the most normal transition from any 1 rax expand, gasless or otherwise). i can post a replay of me doing a +1 ghost timing hit vs a mid-ranked GM player on SEA when i get home if you like. from memory, however, my macro is a bit sloppy in places so i don't have quite as many units as i should (i think im about 10-15 supply short). That would be great  thanks | ||
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rmAmnesiac
United Kingdom185 Posts
On July 26 2011 02:59 TimeSpiral wrote: "just go f*ing kill him" ~Day9's worst contribution to the SC2 community. p.s. Don't get all butthurt, especially if you don't even know what I mean. indeed. possibly the most missunderstood and missquoted soundbite. | ||
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rmAmnesiac
United Kingdom185 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:51 vnlegend wrote: Damn. Another Protoss build order that I'll have to worry about. I haven't really run into this yet at my lvl though (high masters), but I haven't played much. This build looks similar to two gas 3-gate expand into 6 gate 2-base attack. Both gets 2 gases with stalkers to deny scouting. So sometimes I expect DT/Void Ray, get engineering bay/turret only to get crushed by the 6gate attack. "Just go f'ing donate your army to cloaked units!" indeed. You guys are talking too much about "I know exactly what's hes gonna do and going to perfectly counter it with this BO" or about what you're going to do. It's much more important to see what the Protoss is doing (the timings), what scouting info you can gather, and how you can figure out his build. 3gate DT seems like a solid build. The 3gates should give enough units to defend vs anything. Any decent Protoss can cut your army in half if you try to go up the ramp. A reaper opening might be useful in scouting this though. high masters and you haven't played vs 3 gate dt expand? hmm. | ||
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