[G] PvZ Phoenix DT: A New Style - Page 3

On June 27 2011 06:31 Bladeorade wrote:
I had someone attempt to do this to me the other day. I'll see if I can find the replay.

It appeared as though they were going a stargate exand, and he went to deny my 3rd with void ray/phoenix but I had enough queens to drive them away.

My normal ZvP is ling/infestor so my infestor tech was on the way. When he revealed exactly how many phoenix he had (and an additional void ray) I dropped a Hydra den.

I managed to catch his air in a fungal and killed them.

His DTs caught me incredibly offguard and he managed to take my 3rd down since it had low heath.

I fungaled every DT and killed them.

Then I went for a ling/hydra/infestor push with 5 infestors 8-12ish Hydras and speedlings (with+2 at this point I believe)

He had a handful of gateway units and 1 archon at his base since I killed all of his harassing units.

Either way I could not see this style of play doing well against infestor play and standard play is leaning towards infestors at the moment.

Phoenix do not snipe Overseers very quickly and the combination of infestors and hydralisks shut it down terribly.

Even though I was caught offguard by his DTs all I had to do was A move, any infestor micro was unnecessary I can't see this working at a high level.

On June 27 2011 09:19 ZeromuS wrote:
digging up an old thread by xDaunt wherein he outlines a PvZ opening that goes into pheonix DT style play but with more of a long term goal and more well thought out. Though the metagame was SUPER different at the time where rushing to mutalisks was very very popular. Z would go 2 base mutas into harass and then sometimes double expand behind it and drone thanks to the map control they had.

Edit ... Forgot the link it is below

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=149170

oh and please please please do not necro it asking xDaunt questions I havent really seen him around (he is in the LoL forum so I assume he focuses on that game now) so read, play with it then make a good post that make necroing the thread legitimate and worthwhile IF you necro it at ALL (which you probably shouldnt unless you are very very good at the game and can make some Serious contributions to the opening)

On June 26 2011 23:55 Sweetness.751 wrote:
I encourage people to watch the replays before saying it is a fail. Yes I agree the theory is not new, as Bisu had invented it long ago. However in SC2 I have yet to see a pro try and attempt something similar in a tournament setting, so in that sense one can say it is new.

As for the early push doing damage, yes it can be blindly countered, just like every strategy and build created. However you have the option of pulling back and not attacking just to force the Zerg to make units.

I mentioned in the thread the opening is irrelevant, as long as whatever you do gets you to the final goal. I choose 2gate expand because I believe that having a mobile army as opposed to cannons is much preferred in my eyes.

On June 27 2011 08:49 OminouS wrote:
DT + Phoenix cost gas.

Zealots (the money sink) is useless against Z. In BW you could follow up with some speed +1 lots and then add HT. You need another building for the HT's aswell in SC2. I've tried variations of this build a lot in SC2, never really gotten it to work. I would love to be proven wrong though.

On June 27 2011 09:40 Gooey wrote:

You shouldn't be able to fungal a bunch of clumped DTs. If used properly, DTs are spread out individually, not all holding hands.

Before I had to stop playing, I too started to work some sort of bisu-esque build out. Air + DT does work really well, because it allows you to get all of your tech out and infrastructure up due to the amount of time it buys you. It doesn't work on every map, and you need some distance, because the only thing that gives it trouble is the same thing that gave it trouble in broodwar: Super mega hydra bust all-in (and of course, if they are doing some insane 19 drone 8roach/ling all-in just spam cannons and make sentries). If you are active enough with your air units, you will be able to see a hydra bust coming.

Infestors really aren't a problem, because you can beat an infestor with micro (like the OP said, this is a very micro-intensive playstyle that requires a lot of multitask). Infestors are also not an aggressive attack/harass unit against protoss in the early and mid game, but rather defensive 'omg I need to stay alive right now' units. That's great! You don't want zerg to be making things like lots of speed roaches to come kill you. By the time zerg has his 74 drones and is starting to make units, we are starting to kill his drones. With good micro/multitask, you CAN kill drones off, and bring the count to about even. Now that your economies are relatively even, you have full tech and the same economy, with them likely pumping a lair tech army. That sounds like a scary pvz scenario for zerg.

DT follow-up to your air opener retains your map control long enough to keep zerg from comfortably being on his 3 bases (impossible to get a 4th if done right), much less moving out for an attack. Once you have all of your tech out ready to make your 2 base push, you can take your 3rd, just like in broodwar. Keep all of your harass units active and busy on their side of the map to keep them there. Try not to lose phoenixes! They are not Japanese kamakazi pilots! Retain your phoenix count as best you can. It takes a lot of concentration and multitask, but they are very powerful units. The difference between a normal corsair and a Bisu corsair, is that Bisu's are always moving around doing something, and he doesn't let them get killed, albeit much harder in BW with scourge hovering around.

On June 28 2011 04:02 johngalt90 wrote:
saying infestors counter this doesnt apply since currently they counter every single protoss composition. however ling/bling does ruin this build and thats one of the most commomn strats vs. p currently.