EPT[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball" - Page 4
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Blamajama
156 Posts
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Sentient66
United States651 Posts
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naventus
United States1339 Posts
Also if you don't invest into air infrastructure, how will you deal with a VR transition mid game or carriers late? Tanks are only good against stalkers that you target fire, and approximately equivalent, but a bit worse than vikings against colossus. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
Do you have any variants of this build that involve a fast expansion rather than the facport build? | ||
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WardenSC
Canada210 Posts
Re: OP. I don't want you to take offense, but viability of a composition when players are not particularly prepared for it, and not at the highest skill of the game should be questioned. If you can take a 5set off of MC, or demonstrate tournament viability, that is an entirely beast to surprising people on the ladder. Dear naventus, Purely going with your logic here, that I shouldn't talk about the viability of my build as I don't play at the "highest level" of the game. What are your qualifications to question the viability of my build? Please give me a link to your bnet account and we can continue this conversation. Unless I see a grandmaster account associated with your name, I will not continue this dialogue any longer. Sincerely, WardenSC. | ||
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DerekJCEX
United States64 Posts
On June 13 2011 09:44 Penatronic wrote: Wow this guide should be the blueprint for all guides. So thorough. Good job man. As a nub this is what I found most useful. Awesome guide | ||
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Blamajama
156 Posts
On June 13 2011 12:38 naventus wrote: If you spread all your tanks, they don't all reach every colossus. If you don't spread your tanks, they get destroyed by AoE. Also if you don't invest into air infrastructure, how will you deal with a VR transition mid game or carriers late? Tanks are only good against stalkers that you target fire, and approximately equivalent, but a bit worse than vikings against colossus. I think you should add a second reactored star port once you are on 6 geysers. Your first port will probably be teched for banshee/raven. I'd say get the medivac energy boost to save some money long term since medivacs wouldn't be a huge priority for a bio/mech split comp. Vikings take 42 seconds to pump out, while colossi take 75 (minus chrono). So in the mid game you can get buy pumping one Viking at a time. Late game I think you need another port just to keep air superiority, then you can prioritize Banshee/Medivac/Raven once again. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
I am having some difficultys with the push. If my push is late at all they cna get the neccesary collsi to overwhelm me. I think i lost those cuz he did a 1 gate FE which seems to do very well against this build if you dont do a thor-all in to counter. | ||
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naventus
United States1339 Posts
On June 13 2011 12:46 WardenSC wrote: Dear naventus, Purely going with your logic here, that I shouldn't talk about the viability of my build as I don't play at the "highest level" of the game. What are your qualifications to question the viability of my build? Please give me a link to your bnet account and we can continue this conversation. Unless I see a grandmaster account associated with your name, I will not continue this dialogue any longer. Sincerely, WardenSC. You seem really angry. Did you only want people to congratulate you on figuring out the matchup once and for all? I'm not making any claims, you are making the claim that this works - the burden is on you to prove it, not to get mad at criticism. What, then, do you perceive to be the weaknesses to this style of play in macro games? | ||
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fearus
China2164 Posts
On June 13 2011 13:11 naventus wrote: You seem really angry. Did you only want people to congratulate you on figuring out the matchup once and for all? I'm not making any claims, you are making the claim that this works - the burden is on you to prove it, not to get mad at criticism. What, then, do you perceive to be the weaknesses to this style of play in macro games? I am completely lost here, on 1 hand you're basically saying if you cant beat MC in a 5setter you shouldn't be posting.. on the other hand you're demanding he 'proves' it despite the 15+ replays his attached against high quality opponents. | ||
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naventus
United States1339 Posts
If it sounds like snake oil, it just might be snake oil. It's not hard to cherrypick the wins with a certain strategy, you can make anything look viable. Look at all the threads in this strategy forum. He did a great job explaining reading P builds, that was really well done. But if this is really a viable tactic in a macro game, and yields 80% win, shouldn't he be shitting over people in tournaments? | ||
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joeschmo
United States167 Posts
they are known as the 1-2 base clan (no offense, it's rumor) lol anyway the unit comp is obviously good, you just don't expand enough or as much as you should, imo with a quicker 3rd & 4th & macro'ing well, how can you go wrong? still nice to see ppl tryna spark a fire for other unit paths beside mmmvg vs. toss would be a first nice write up though, peace god | ||
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naventus
United States1339 Posts
Could you remacro with the flexibility and composition that the P has? Whatever, my point is that please discuss the weaknesses of the strategy, or what else is there to say - great job spending your time writing? | ||
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supdubdup
United States916 Posts
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On June 13 2011 13:38 naventus wrote: That's my point, you can't defend as easily across 3-4 base, sure you will beat the P in a straight up fight if he makes composition errors in the first max, but if the P knew how to survive that first fight, and didn't die, what happens? Could you remacro with the flexibility and composition that the P has? Whatever, my point is that please discuss the weaknesses of the strategy, or what else is there to say - great job spending your time writing? Its pretty well known that pretty much anytime you stop a Terran push you gain a huge advantage. So whether its MMMGV or this build either way, T has the worst rebuilding of the three races. The point of this push is to gain an advantage or die. He could definately remacro the ball. But i do agree with you, id like to see some games where you dont win of thiss push and you are forced to remacro. I want to see multiple 200/200 games where the P reacts to your composition. Heres another thing, in regards to korea, you can always point the mirror that way and say Hey look they are the best thats what we should be doing. But this isnt always the case, you gota keep in mind they have a different meta game, and are on a completely different skill level then us. Now of course you can copy their builds and you will have success because the amount of thought they put in is mind blowing(read an interview where the guy practiced a build 200 times) Warden made a great quote that says it all, "The differance between execution, and invention are worlds apart." Now its not like this guy has solved TvP nor is he claiming at all "HEY GUYS COME WIN TVP EVERYTIME, because you know what? no one build solves this game, theres going to be counters to it. Warden probably surprised these guys on ladder alot and took some wins(not a cop out to your skill at all warden, beating like 10 of the top protosses on NA is amazing regardless of how you do it). This is a good build that we will hopefully see develop. NA Terran is definately struggling in this MU so at this rate we need everything we can get. | ||
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Saeglopur
Canada177 Posts
Do you feel your strategy is superior in smaller maps or close spawns? I feel any siege-centric build on the bigger maps is too slow developing, lacking in harass potential (due to need for bio/hellions to cover tanks), and prone to counterattacks. Perhaps this is why the top koreans opt for the lean and mobile MMMGV composition? Looking forward to seeing you and possibly cheesing the shit out of you in the UBC tourny next month haha. Hopefully I won't disgrace your build too much when I use it. | ||
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lazydino
Canada331 Posts
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kochujang
Germany1226 Posts
On June 13 2011 13:16 fearus wrote: I am completely lost here, on 1 hand you're basically saying if you cant beat MC in a 5setter you shouldn't be posting.. on the other hand you're demanding he 'proves' it despite the 15+ replays his attached against high quality opponents. TL/b.net is not exactly riddled with protoss with MC skill-level either. Do we have to wait for tournaments to prove build orders before they can be used? | ||
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
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