EPT[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball" - Page 23
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revy
United States1524 Posts
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
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CanucksJC
Canada1241 Posts
On December 28 2011 03:54 Let it Raine wrote: wardens replay pack would be a bunch of gimmicks in every matchup It would be a bunch of gimmicks raping everyone. | ||
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Nerdrage293
Canada12 Posts
EMP nullifies any archon/templar build, viking's great range for colossi, and medivacs for stim abd raven for detection/ PDDs.This will definitely stomp most protoss deathballs. Can anyone correct me if there is any heavy counter for this build? I mean, yes, with good micro HTs will most likely feedback ghosts, but that's very hard and if they cloak, they're an even bigger problem which forces the P player to get observers, then it become the first player to snipe all detection wins if the protoss player goes for mothership :\ | ||
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WardenSC
Canada210 Posts
In other news, I've recently changed my streaming site from twitch to own 3d, come check it out! Link: www.own3d.tv/live/195635/ | ||
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BriTadeb
France23 Posts
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shishy
United States115 Posts
On January 09 2012 10:21 Nerdrage293 wrote: As a protoss player, I really don't think P has any heavy counters to this build... :\ EMP nullifies any archon/templar build, viking's great range for colossi, and medivacs for stim abd raven for detection/ PDDs.This will definitely stomp most protoss deathballs. Can anyone correct me if there is any heavy counter for this build? I mean, yes, with good micro HTs will most likely feedback ghosts, but that's very hard and if they cloak, they're an even bigger problem which forces the P player to get observers, then it become the first player to snipe all detection wins if the protoss player goes for mothership :\ What do you mean EMP nullifies any archon/templar build? TvP comes down to whoever has the better control so spread your units out and try to feedback. The issue is obviously that ghosts have really long range but you can mitigate that with some spread as protoss from what I've seen (I'm terran). In general Terran vs Protoss is always about army composition and upgrades and you have to realize that the Terran player is going to respond to what you have by constantly scanning and attempting to counter your composition. While he does that though you should be taking control of the map and make it hard for him to simply just force an engagement when he wants. There is no such thing as a hard counter imo in TvP since Protoss can generally make what they want with warpgate and as a result hold off any follow-up attacks relatively cost efficiently, Also as a protoss you should ALWAYS have observers in your army and spread out across the map. I haven't met a single protoss player that doesn't put observers along various attack paths all over the map. | ||
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edzet
24 Posts
as a new player just love the indepth focus on scouting...was somethin i wanted to find gonna study this for a while  thanks | ||
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Nerdrage293
Canada12 Posts
On February 01 2012 03:29 shishy wrote: What do you mean EMP nullifies any archon/templar build? TvP comes down to whoever has the better control so spread your units out and try to feedback. The issue is obviously that ghosts have really long range but you can mitigate that with some spread as protoss from what I've seen (I'm terran). In general Terran vs Protoss is always about army composition and upgrades and you have to realize that the Terran player is going to respond to what you have by constantly scanning and attempting to counter your composition. While he does that though you should be taking control of the map and make it hard for him to simply just force an engagement when he wants. There is no such thing as a hard counter imo in TvP since Protoss can generally make what they want with warpgate and as a result hold off any follow-up attacks relatively cost efficiently, Also as a protoss you should ALWAYS have observers in your army and spread out across the map. I haven't met a single protoss player that doesn't put observers along various attack paths all over the map. You have a point, I've been watching HerO's stream lately and what you just said made perfect sense. Still, that's something I need to improve on  | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
i know most protoss (should) cut probes versus 1 base builds and in your replay the guy saw one base but just would not cut probes at all and got too greedy whereas a protoss who cuts probes at 30ish (maybe more is the correct number for 1-1-1's) would hold that | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
Anyway I think this strategy is still quite viable and could definitely help Terrans who are struggling in TvP right now. Late game I think this is much stronger than MMMGV, but I'd love it if Warden could talk about how the unit composition should be in the late game (3+ bases, say they don't die to the timing push). Should the composition be more mech-heavy or bio-heavy? I prefer lots and lots of tanks because there's nothing more satisfying than sieging up and watching a Protoss death ball dying to a tank volley, but sometimes the Protoss sneaks a Carrier transition (happened like 3x, I lost every time because it turns out Carrier/HT is pretty unstoppable especially if you don't scout it). Should we start adding in BCs late game? | ||
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:32 Odds wrote: Does this build still work with the new metagame and the Pre-Igniter nerf? If so, is it competent in the late game, where a lot of Terrans seem to be struggling PvT? | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
Anyway, I'm finding that it plays out one of three ways. 1. The Protoss takes a quick 3rd or skips Robo or just doesn't have many Stalkers for whatever reason, and loses a lot to the Banshees. The push will roll him hard. 2. The Protoss holds the Banshees with relatively minimal losses, but takes a 3rd too quickly afterwards (without strong enough army/tech) because he has a false sense of security. The push should kill him, but it's not going to be a walkover like in the first scenario. 3. The Protoss responds perfectly and holds the Banshees with relatively minimal losses, but chooses to tech/upgrade before taking a 3rd. This is the correct response, and if he plays it will he can beat your push, but you don't auto-lose if he plays correctly, you're just playing an even game and have to outplay him to win. Take a 3rd and macro up, just don't die to his counter push. It's not worse than MMMGV in the late game IMO (much much stronger if your upgrades are decent actually), but it's difficult to control. Vikings/Tanks are tough enough to handle, but Ghost EMPs and stimming Bio and throwing down PDDs are all tough to do in the couple of seconds you have before an engagement. | ||
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Huna
Vietnam1 Post
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On March 20 2012 21:04 Huna wrote: lol bad guide, what is "The protoss player is being very greedy here and deserves to be punished" ? U punished what? it's a stategy, just like your fast expand. May be u think terran is god or something crazy. To me all terran player should be up one league in ladder to make the game balance, so we should make a TvT league(god league so u can punish yourself) uper the GM league. My friend plays terran and go master in season 4, his micro and marco is intsane,40~50 APM all game and a lot of money in bank, event he not know when SCV click to mineral it has no collision (just know when he play starcraft master lol). User was temp banned for this post. what? | ||
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xTrim
472 Posts
On March 20 2012 21:04 Huna wrote: lol bad guide, what is "The protoss player is being very greedy here and deserves to be punished" ? U punished what? it's a stategy, just like your fast expand. May be u think terran is god or something crazy. To me all terran player should be up one league in ladder to make the game balance, so we should make a TvT league(god league so u can punish yourself) uper the GM league. My friend plays terran and go master in season 4, his micro and marco is intsane,40~50 APM all game and a lot of money in bank, event he not know when SCV click to mineral it has no collision (just know when he play starcraft master lol). User was temp banned for this post. 1st post, 1st ban | ||
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s15sLiDER
United States112 Posts
On March 20 2012 21:04 Huna wrote: lol bad guide, what is "The protoss player is being very greedy here and deserves to be punished" ? U punished what? it's a stategy, just like your fast expand. May be u think terran is god or something crazy. To me all terran player should be up one league in ladder to make the game balance, so we should make a TvT league(god league so u can punish yourself) uper the GM league. My friend plays terran and go master in season 4, his micro and marco is intsane,40~50 APM all game and a lot of money in bank, event he not know when SCV click to mineral it has no collision (just know when he play starcraft master lol). User was temp banned for this post. Interesting.... | ||
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Ahelvin
France1866 Posts
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