• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:29
CET 03:29
KST 11:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League94
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? SC2 Power Rank: epic29 Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War SCHNAIL now supports Remastered Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE!
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Deus Ex 3!? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7635 users

[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball" - Page 23

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 Next All
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
December 27 2011 18:39 GMT
#441
I tried to make this build work back when the guide was new and my tvp was terrible. I didn't have a whole heck of a lot of success with it. I fell back into the mmm, ghost, and viking, improved mechanics and became decent in tvp. It's possible with my improved mechanics I could do better with this build now but at the time it just didn't feel strong to me. Obviously Warden was a GM terran with a great tvp winrate so I'm guessing it was a problem with me. I guess I'm just saying this build isn't a panacea, your mileage may vary.
Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
December 27 2011 18:54 GMT
#442
wardens replay pack would be a bunch of gimmicks in every matchup

Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
CanucksJC
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1241 Posts
December 27 2011 19:05 GMT
#443
On December 28 2011 03:54 Let it Raine wrote:
wardens replay pack would be a bunch of gimmicks in every matchup


It would be a bunch of gimmicks raping everyone.
UBC StarCraft Club is official @ UBC Vancouver campus! Your first eSport community on campus. Welcomes players of all levels at UBC. Follow us on facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=155630424470014 or IRC @ irc.rizon.net #ubcsc
Nerdrage293
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada12 Posts
January 09 2012 01:21 GMT
#444
As a protoss player, I really don't think P has any heavy counters to this build... :\
EMP nullifies any archon/templar build, viking's great range for colossi, and medivacs for stim abd raven for detection/ PDDs.This will definitely stomp most protoss deathballs. Can anyone correct me if there is any heavy counter for this build? I mean, yes, with good micro HTs will most likely feedback ghosts, but that's very hard and if they cloak, they're an even bigger problem which forces the P player to get observers, then it become the first player to snipe all detection wins if the protoss player goes for mothership :\
WardenSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada210 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-14 16:23:59
January 14 2012 16:00 GMT
#445
lol @ Raine, we all know you are butt-hurt over all those games you got owned in, but please, you do not have to degrade yourself like this in public <3

In other news, I've recently changed my streaming site from twitch to own 3d, come check it out!

Link: www.own3d.tv/live/195635/
BriTadeb
Profile Joined June 2011
France23 Posts
January 31 2012 14:26 GMT
#446
What do you do if you scout early second gate with scv then robo with helion ? I'm talking about 1gate robo expand or 2gate robo expand.
shishy
Profile Joined May 2011
United States115 Posts
January 31 2012 18:29 GMT
#447
On January 09 2012 10:21 Nerdrage293 wrote:
As a protoss player, I really don't think P has any heavy counters to this build... :\
EMP nullifies any archon/templar build, viking's great range for colossi, and medivacs for stim abd raven for detection/ PDDs.This will definitely stomp most protoss deathballs. Can anyone correct me if there is any heavy counter for this build? I mean, yes, with good micro HTs will most likely feedback ghosts, but that's very hard and if they cloak, they're an even bigger problem which forces the P player to get observers, then it become the first player to snipe all detection wins if the protoss player goes for mothership :\


What do you mean EMP nullifies any archon/templar build? TvP comes down to whoever has the better control so spread your units out and try to feedback. The issue is obviously that ghosts have really long range but you can mitigate that with some spread as protoss from what I've seen (I'm terran).

In general Terran vs Protoss is always about army composition and upgrades and you have to realize that the Terran player is going to respond to what you have by constantly scanning and attempting to counter your composition. While he does that though you should be taking control of the map and make it hard for him to simply just force an engagement when he wants.

There is no such thing as a hard counter imo in TvP since Protoss can generally make what they want with warpgate and as a result hold off any follow-up attacks relatively cost efficiently,

Also as a protoss you should ALWAYS have observers in your army and spread out across the map. I haven't met a single protoss player that doesn't put observers along various attack paths all over the map.
edzet
Profile Joined January 2012
24 Posts
January 31 2012 22:38 GMT
#448
this is much apreciated
as a new player just love the indepth focus on scouting...was somethin i wanted to find
gonna study this for a while
thanks
Nerdrage293
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada12 Posts
February 03 2012 00:32 GMT
#449
On February 01 2012 03:29 shishy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2012 10:21 Nerdrage293 wrote:
As a protoss player, I really don't think P has any heavy counters to this build... :\
EMP nullifies any archon/templar build, viking's great range for colossi, and medivacs for stim abd raven for detection/ PDDs.This will definitely stomp most protoss deathballs. Can anyone correct me if there is any heavy counter for this build? I mean, yes, with good micro HTs will most likely feedback ghosts, but that's very hard and if they cloak, they're an even bigger problem which forces the P player to get observers, then it become the first player to snipe all detection wins if the protoss player goes for mothership :\


What do you mean EMP nullifies any archon/templar build? TvP comes down to whoever has the better control so spread your units out and try to feedback. The issue is obviously that ghosts have really long range but you can mitigate that with some spread as protoss from what I've seen (I'm terran).

In general Terran vs Protoss is always about army composition and upgrades and you have to realize that the Terran player is going to respond to what you have by constantly scanning and attempting to counter your composition. While he does that though you should be taking control of the map and make it hard for him to simply just force an engagement when he wants.

There is no such thing as a hard counter imo in TvP since Protoss can generally make what they want with warpgate and as a result hold off any follow-up attacks relatively cost efficiently,

Also as a protoss you should ALWAYS have observers in your army and spread out across the map. I haven't met a single protoss player that doesn't put observers along various attack paths all over the map.


You have a point, I've been watching HerO's stream lately and what you just said made perfect sense. Still, that's something I need to improve on
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
February 03 2012 00:38 GMT
#450
This guide is great not just because it gives a detailed, in depth description of the build, but also a great TvP scouting guide!
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
ThePianoDentist
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom698 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-03 01:29:51
February 03 2012 01:23 GMT
#451
I just wondered nowadays 1 gate cybercore expand is a 'standard' protoss opening and considered the safest protoss opening in PvT as later expansions are very vulnerable to 1-1-1 pushes. Whereas this guide says 1 gate cybercore is very greedy and you should thor all in-it? i cannot remember the last-time I faced a thor all-in as protoss doing 1 gate expand, have protoss players figured out how to hold it?

i know most protoss (should) cut probes versus 1 base builds and in your replay the guy saw one base but just would not cut probes at all and got too greedy whereas a protoss who cuts probes at 30ish (maybe more is the correct number for 1-1-1's) would hold that
Brood War Protoss, SC2 Terran/Protoss
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
February 16 2012 18:24 GMT
#452
It's probably better to revise the tactic of Thor allinning a 1 Gate FE Protoss. Maps are bigger now so it's a weaker strat, and almost every Protoss goes 1 Gate FE in this mu, so you'll prolly end up Thor allinning every game if you follow this to the letter.

Anyway I think this strategy is still quite viable and could definitely help Terrans who are struggling in TvP right now. Late game I think this is much stronger than MMMGV, but I'd love it if Warden could talk about how the unit composition should be in the late game (3+ bases, say they don't die to the timing push). Should the composition be more mech-heavy or bio-heavy? I prefer lots and lots of tanks because there's nothing more satisfying than sieging up and watching a Protoss death ball dying to a tank volley, but sometimes the Protoss sneaks a Carrier transition (happened like 3x, I lost every time because it turns out Carrier/HT is pretty unstoppable especially if you don't scout it). Should we start adding in BCs late game?
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
February 27 2012 20:32 GMT
#453
Does this build still work with the new metagame and the Pre-Igniter nerf?
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 27 2012 20:38 GMT
#454
On February 28 2012 05:32 Odds wrote:
Does this build still work with the new metagame and the Pre-Igniter nerf?


If so, is it competent in the late game, where a lot of Terrans seem to be struggling PvT?
Freeeeeeedom
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
February 27 2012 21:48 GMT
#455
In terms of the 150 food Marine/Marauder/Medivac/Viking/Tank/BFH timing push, yes. I have been doing this build in mid master league on ladder on maps that favor it, except opening with a Reactor Expand into the 1/1/1 tech. Far more economical, but still gets Cloaked Banshees out at a decent timing. They still do damage if your control is good, and at the very least give you map control.

Anyway, I'm finding that it plays out one of three ways.

1. The Protoss takes a quick 3rd or skips Robo or just doesn't have many Stalkers for whatever reason, and loses a lot to the Banshees. The push will roll him hard.

2. The Protoss holds the Banshees with relatively minimal losses, but takes a 3rd too quickly afterwards (without strong enough army/tech) because he has a false sense of security. The push should kill him, but it's not going to be a walkover like in the first scenario.

3. The Protoss responds perfectly and holds the Banshees with relatively minimal losses, but chooses to tech/upgrade before taking a 3rd. This is the correct response, and if he plays it will he can beat your push, but you don't auto-lose if he plays correctly, you're just playing an even game and have to outplay him to win. Take a 3rd and macro up, just don't die to his counter push.

It's not worse than MMMGV in the late game IMO (much much stronger if your upgrades are decent actually), but it's difficult to control. Vikings/Tanks are tough enough to handle, but Ghost EMPs and stimming Bio and throwing down PDDs are all tough to do in the couple of seconds you have before an engagement.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
Huna
Profile Joined March 2012
Vietnam1 Post
March 20 2012 12:04 GMT
#456
lol bad guide, what is "The protoss player is being very greedy here and deserves to be punished" ? U punished what? it's a stategy, just like your fast expand. May be u think terran is god or something crazy. To me all terran player should be up one league in ladder to make the game balance, so we should make a TvT league(god league so u can punish yourself) uper the GM league. My friend plays terran and go master in season 4, his micro and marco is intsane,40~50 APM all game and a lot of money in bank, event he not know when SCV click to mineral it has no collision (just know when he play starcraft master lol).

User was temp banned for this post.
DoctorFunk
Profile Joined September 2011
160 Posts
March 20 2012 13:30 GMT
#457
On March 20 2012 21:04 Huna wrote:
lol bad guide, what is "The protoss player is being very greedy here and deserves to be punished" ? U punished what? it's a stategy, just like your fast expand. May be u think terran is god or something crazy. To me all terran player should be up one league in ladder to make the game balance, so we should make a TvT league(god league so u can punish yourself) uper the GM league. My friend plays terran and go master in season 4, his micro and marco is intsane,40~50 APM all game and a lot of money in bank, event he not know when SCV click to mineral it has no collision (just know when he play starcraft master lol).

User was temp banned for this post.

what?
xTrim
Profile Joined April 2011
472 Posts
March 20 2012 13:48 GMT
#458
On March 20 2012 21:04 Huna wrote:
lol bad guide, what is "The protoss player is being very greedy here and deserves to be punished" ? U punished what? it's a stategy, just like your fast expand. May be u think terran is god or something crazy. To me all terran player should be up one league in ladder to make the game balance, so we should make a TvT league(god league so u can punish yourself) uper the GM league. My friend plays terran and go master in season 4, his micro and marco is intsane,40~50 APM all game and a lot of money in bank, event he not know when SCV click to mineral it has no collision (just know when he play starcraft master lol).

User was temp banned for this post.


1st post, 1st ban
s15sLiDER
Profile Joined January 2011
United States112 Posts
March 20 2012 18:29 GMT
#459
On March 20 2012 21:04 Huna wrote:
lol bad guide, what is "The protoss player is being very greedy here and deserves to be punished" ? U punished what? it's a stategy, just like your fast expand. May be u think terran is god or something crazy. To me all terran player should be up one league in ladder to make the game balance, so we should make a TvT league(god league so u can punish yourself) uper the GM league. My friend plays terran and go master in season 4, his micro and marco is intsane,40~50 APM all game and a lot of money in bank, event he not know when SCV click to mineral it has no collision (just know when he play starcraft master lol).

User was temp banned for this post.


Interesting....
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
April 10 2012 12:15 GMT
#460
Now that nearly all protoss players are opening 1gate FE, what transition would you recommend that won't be a Thor-allin Warden?
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 169
ViBE152
Codebar 44
StarCraft: Brood War
White-Ra 154
Bale 66
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm219
LuMiX5
Super Smash Bros
amsayoshi43
Other Games
summit1g9205
JimRising 572
XaKoH 297
JuggernautJason31
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick939
CranKy Ducklings16
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta35
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP32
• musti20045 23
• Nickrosys3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo533
Upcoming Events
OSC
11h 31m
Yamato Cup
12h 31m
IPSL
14h 31m
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
20h 31m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 9h
Ultimate Battle
1d 9h
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
IPSL
6 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.