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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
On May 18 2011 14:16 MrBitter wrote: Destiny's trolling you guys. 1 base roach will lose to 2 base roach every time.... It's not an intentional troll... he just has a following of people that will take anything he say's as the gospel itself. | ||
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scaban84
United States1080 Posts
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Antego
Canada38 Posts
On May 18 2011 14:21 PR4Y wrote: It's not an intentional troll... he just has a following of people that will take anything he say's as the gospel itself. I don't think trolling the people that gives him money is a good plan; I don't think he is trolling at all. Anyway, if the troll is not intentionnal, it's just not troll; there is no such thing as unintentional bullshit. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On May 18 2011 14:58 Antego wrote: I don't think trolling the people that gives him money is a good plan; I don't think he is trolling at all. Anyway, if the troll is not intentionnal, it's just not troll; there is no such thing as unintentional bullshit. He's doing it with good intentions... He's taking low level players and showing them a solid 1 base build that doesn't revolve around solid mechanics or good micro... Its a free pass from bronze to gold, and by saying "zomg its unbeatable", he's selling it very well...... So saying he's trolling might be an oversimplifcation... But Destiny does not think its an unstoppable build. He's very aware of the build's shortcomings, and of the fact that those shortcomings are irrelevant in the lower leagues. edit: To be clear, I'm not trying to dump on Destiny. He's a far better player than me, but this build isn't anything like some bandwagoners are trying to believe... | ||
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blackodd
Sweden451 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:02 MrBitter wrote: But Destiny does not think its an unstoppable build. He's very aware of the build's shortcomings, and of the fact that those shortcomings are irrelevant in the lower leagues. True and well, if they play only to win and not learn mechanics it works I guess. But as a teacher it's such a mistake to learn out things such as this.. | ||
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Hoon
Brazil891 Posts
But it is still an awesome build for small maps like Xel'naga. Early expand on such maps in a ZvZ is way too risky. You pretty much fake expand , which triggers them to expand as well or to baneling all-in, which are both really weak against this build.  | ||
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
On May 18 2011 14:58 Antego wrote: I don't think trolling the people that gives him money is a good plan; I don't think he is trolling at all. Anyway, if the troll is not intentionnal, it's just not troll; there is no such thing as unintentional bullshit. Nothing you just said makes any sense, whatsoever... Of course you can troll unintentionally. Example: George Bush saying "Thanks to OB/GYN for spreading... their love, for women..." was an unintentional troll. He didn't realize he was doing it, but after it happened it became apparent that what he had just said might have been the stupidest thing to ever leave a United States President's mouth. Unintentional trolls happen all the time, in many shapes and sizes... you may just be too blind to see them going on around you, but that does not mean they don't happen. Also, when a progamer says that this is garbage and troll-worthy, listen to those words. Destiny teaching one of his students that X build is "unbeatable, gamebreaking, and unstoppable", is just hype. That's all this build is... Hype. Like I stated to begin with, Destiny does a GREAT job of hyping himself and the product he sells (coaching lessons), and he does it in a unique manor. He has had great success with his stream, but that by no means makes him any less human then you or I... He might not of known he was trolling, but because of his loyal followers that take everything he says as fact, situations like this thread occur. This build just doesn't hold water. It might be a fun build to try against some lowbies, but it just wont work in higher leagues. That is why it is a troll. Destiny said it was game-breaking to his student to hype his product, and as a result, one of his followers took that statement seriously and made this thread THUS CREATING AN UNINTENTIONAL TROLL. Thanks EDIT: On May 18 2011 15:02 MrBitter wrote: He's doing it with good intentions... He's taking low level players and showing them a solid 1 base build that doesn't revolve around solid mechanics or good micro... Its a free pass from bronze to gold, and by saying "zomg its unbeatable", he's selling it very well...... So saying he's trolling might be an oversimplifcation... But Destiny does not think its an unstoppable build. He's very aware of the build's shortcomings, and of the fact that those shortcomings are irrelevant in the lower leagues. edit: To be clear, I'm not trying to dump on Destiny. He's a far better player than me, but this build isn't anything like some bandwagoners are trying to believe... Thank you for saying what I was trying to say, but simplifying it 10x... I couldn't figure out how to get my point across without creating large walls of text, so for anyone looking for a TL:DR; of my above post, just read this...  | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
6 roaches at 8 minutes... oh it's for ZvZ...oh...expand at 34 hmm nope...too tired and distracted to rage lol much hate and pity...so sorry.. i guess this is the best you can do when playing blind... oh yea what a battle lol dam kinda pissed at seeing crap like this... building 6 roaches and a spine to wall off at supply 20...wtf how is it comparable to 4-gate, besides the ling speed being like warp+pylon. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
I always open spanishiwa style 16h, 15p, no gas, 4 queens, lots of spinecrawlers. The first game it killed me because i was at ~60 drones to his ~35-40, the second time i held it with 4-5 spine crawlers, 4 queens, lots of slowlings, slowling reinforcements and some transfuses because i scouted in time that he wasn't droning at his expo, so i built lings instead of drones. The build seems to be really strong, especially since the expo makes it look like you are going for a macro game while you are instead doing a very strong attack (wouldn't call it all-in, as you have the expo and an ok-ish amount of drones), so the opponent has to scout very well to check if you are really droning on your expo. It is imho still not impossible to defend while staying economically ahead. I think that makes it quite a strong build and the comparision to 4gate seems quite ok, as 4gate usually also relies on the opponent not scouting the 4th gate. It's probably even closer to MCs cancel-4gate build due to the expo. | ||
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:31 Morfildur wrote: Looks like destiny is the reason why my ZvZs got _even more_ annoying. I think the last 2 zerg i played against did this build, the number of roaches and lings fits, though probably the timing was slower and the micro worse because it was just diamond. I always open spanishiwa style 16h, 15p, no gas, 4 queens, lots of spinecrawlers. The first game it killed me because i was at ~60 drones to his ~35-40, the second time i held it with 4-5 spine crawlers, 4 queens, lots of slowlings, slowling reinforcements and some transfuses because i scouted in time that he wasn't droning at his expo, so i built lings instead of drones. The build seems to be really strong, especially since the expo makes it look like you are going for a macro game while you are instead doing a very strong attack (wouldn't call it all-in, as you have the expo and an ok-ish amount of drones), so the opponent has to scout very well to check if you are really droning on your expo. It is imho still not impossible to defend while staying economically ahead. I think that makes it quite a strong build and the comparision to 4gate seems quite ok, as 4gate usually also relies on the opponent not scouting the 4th gate. It's probably even closer to MCs cancel-4gate build due to the expo. You had 60 drones in a ZvZ and lost to ~10 roaches and a handful of speedlings? That doesn't seem like you lost because this build is "unstoppable" (lol), it sounds like you lost because you were insanely economically greedy in a mirror matchup. Do you have replays? | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:40 PR4Y wrote: You had 60 drones in a ZvZ and lost to ~10 roaches and a handful of speedlings? That doesn't seem like you lost because this build is unstoppable, it sounds like you lost because you were insanely economically greedy in a mirror matchup. Do you have replays? Thats what i said. It killed me because i was at 60 drones to his 35-40. I was playing greedy, didn't scout it in time and the build punished me for it. Will check if i can find the replays later today, i'm now at work and have no access to them. | ||
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
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Owarida
United States333 Posts
Allin speedlings, bling before speed builds, and many other builds can do very well against it. Also if the other guy just sim citys his nat well with an evo, and does a two base roach, its pretty hard to connnect with lings. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:31 Morfildur wrote: Looks like destiny is the reason why my ZvZs got _even more_ annoying. I think the last 2 zerg i played against did this build, the number of roaches and lings fits, though probably the timing was slower and the micro worse because it was just diamond. I always open spanishiwa style 16h, 15p, no gas, 4 queens, lots of spinecrawlers. The first game it killed me because i was at ~60 drones to his ~35-40, the second time i held it with 4-5 spine crawlers, 4 queens, lots of slowlings, slowling reinforcements and some transfuses because i scouted in time that he wasn't droning at his expo, so i built lings instead of drones. The build seems to be really strong, especially since the expo makes it look like you are going for a macro game while you are instead doing a very strong attack (wouldn't call it all-in, as you have the expo and an ok-ish amount of drones), so the opponent has to scout very well to check if you are really droning on your expo. It is imho still not impossible to defend while staying economically ahead. I think that makes it quite a strong build and the comparision to 4gate seems quite ok, as 4gate usually also relies on the opponent not scouting the 4th gate. It's probably even closer to MCs cancel-4gate build due to the expo. May I ask why you need to have 60 drones on 2 bases? Were you getting ready to double expand? .... *proceeds to have a heart attack* | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 18 2011 16:15 IzieBoy wrote: May I ask why you need to have 60 drones on 2 bases? Were you getting ready to double expand? .... *proceeds to have a heart attack* Not really unreasonable,, means the main is perfectly saturated, nat is slightly oversaturated, not by much, and yes, you can easily expand to another 3rd. Also, since you lose drones everytime you make a building... | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
• burrow roaches • mass speedling (with expand of course) — as long as there's no banes • massed +1 attack roaches (can expand at same time but will have superior army composition) As a person who's beaten players better than destiny in ZvZ (top 100), I am quite comfortable saying I would win vs this strategy. In fact, as far as I know, destiny isn't even that good at ZvZ, or at least isn't known to have above-average ZvZ. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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