EPT[D] Zerg equivalent to a 4-Gate - Page 16
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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meatdealer
Sweden1 Post
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Juffalo
United States155 Posts
At it's core, this is a one base roach play, which are pretty bad unless you are in close positions on metal/shatt or something like that. This probably won't even work on Xel'Naga if your opponent knows what he is doing. | ||
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seupac
Canada148 Posts
It might be one base roach play "at its core", but pumping speedlings off two base afterward is what makes it so strong. I just swapped zerg from protoss so im only playing ~diamond level zergs, but i am 17-0 in zvz with no understanding of the matchup whatsoever. I dont scout and often roll through 2 base roach with 4+ spinecrawlers Im going to stop running this build so i actually learn ZvZ instead of taking the matchup as a free win (I'm sure it isnt past diamond level). Im not entirely sure what to run against it though, everyone so far has tried to do fast banelings off 13 pool but the roaches still pop too soon if executed correctly. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:02 MrBitter wrote: He's doing it with good intentions... He's taking low level players and showing them a solid 1 base build that doesn't revolve around solid mechanics or good micro... Its a free pass from bronze to gold, and by saying "zomg its unbeatable", he's selling it very well...... So saying he's trolling might be an oversimplifcation... But Destiny does not think its an unstoppable build. He's very aware of the build's shortcomings, and of the fact that those shortcomings are irrelevant in the lower leagues. edit: To be clear, I'm not trying to dump on Destiny. He's a far better player than me, but this build isn't anything like some bandwagoners are trying to believe... This is the end of the subject as far as I'm concerned. I never even notice people doing the unbeatable build, I know some do use this against me but I'm really too busy outmacroing them behind two spines and a big enough army of roaches to stop this alone. The fun part is when lings counter attack  | ||
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NinjaSAGA
6 Posts
Enjoy! | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
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Crue
Australia47 Posts
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NinjaSAGA
6 Posts
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Carras
Argentina860 Posts
and as players end up "even" they start transitioning in the average roach infestor | ||
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TheKillers
United States17 Posts
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ElegantSolution
191 Posts
http://www.mediafire.com/?645i29df86j15jr | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
1. If opponent goes super fast hatch, like hatch first of speedling expand, you have to respond with a hatch immediately. You then continue with the build, but for example if they go hatch first, you have to throw a hatch immediately and make a few more drones. Then win. 2. On maps with wide open naturals like Tal Darim or Xel Naga, speedlings will deny your natural. You have to make an extra round of roaches, then expand. Due to how many speedlings are required to kill your natural, if an opponent goes speedling expand I feel the best response (on open maps that is) is to just make a round of roaches and proceed. Normally fast hatch builds require a hatch in response, but if they are aggressive speedling builds then the number of speedlings they make is enough to put them behind you. I'm still playing around with it, I think maybe a speedling expand on an open map can beat it, haven't tested who is ahead - the later hatch '4 gate' compared to the speedling expand guy that makes zero drones and all lings - but I feel it may be a bit of a coin flip because you have to guess whether or not to make more roaches before expanding. Maybe sacing an overlord or roach to see their drone or ling numbers may be best to decide that. Or maybe vs Speedling expand on large open natural maps, you should just go with a baneling nest instead of roach warren and go defensive baneling. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
This works great on maps where you can defend your natural easily with roaches and it's not wide open, but I think the only maps like that are Shakuras and Metalopolis. I'm also curious what kind of game would happen if instead of making a roach warren, you went banelings. Maybe a baneling 4 gate and you hit much faster and earlier than this roach based one does, before roaches are too powerful to stop it. | ||
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SolidZeal
United States393 Posts
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opm1s6
United States42 Posts
I'm curious, what happens if you start this build, and you are able to get your opponent to commit to making 3 or more spines, is it worth continuing to build speedlings? What if instead you just droned, while the opponent is in crisis management mode and making units. You have map control and you get to pick the positioning of the battle if it were to come. Yes you've put in for 10 roaches, but if you see the opponent putting up spines, can you find a way to be ahead by not investing in speedlings and instead going back to drones. | ||
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pwadoc
271 Posts
Lately I've been scouting ahead a bit with an overlord before I push. If I see a lot of roaches and spines, I just don't push. I spend the next round of larva on drones instead of lings, put guys back on gas, and just transition into a standard midgame. Sometimes I like to walk the roaches over to his base and then immediately turn around and go home to force more units. edit: Lalush is pretty much right. Especially about the "not improving" part. It gets really boring winning game after game with this push. I really like the timing on the first 5 roaches though, and I usually use the opening even if I'm not going for the push. I really hate ling/baneling wars, and the 5 roaches ramp block completely shuts them down. | ||
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KoshrBacon
United States4 Posts
On July 29 2011 05:19 opm1s6 wrote: I'm curious, what happens if you start this build, and you are able to get your opponent to commit to making 3 or more spines, is it worth continuing to build speedlings? What if instead you just droned, while the opponent is in crisis management mode and making units. You have map control and you get to pick the positioning of the battle if it were to come. Yes you've put in for 10 roaches, but if you see the opponent putting up spines, can you find a way to be ahead by not investing in speedlings and instead going back to drones. I have done this a few times and with good results except when opponent goes mass ling with quick speed upgrade. Once they realize that the roaches have moved beyond the point of returning to the natural or main, you can get yourself into a base trading position really quickly. I think for shorter maps with close spawn locations and or tight chokes at the main/natural its definitely worth while. Especially if you are able to scout with an O-lord/zel naga and determine where their army is (i.e. not circling the roaches en route to your base ). | ||
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defaspect
United States21 Posts
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prowala
United States147 Posts
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