EPT8\10 marines + 5\6 scv, they arrived when the stalker warp is done just in time, but wasnt (for me) enought... what should i do in this case?
[G]HuK! PvT 20food 1gate FE - Page 14
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InVerno
258 Posts
8\10 marines + 5\6 scv, they arrived when the stalker warp is done just in time, but wasnt (for me) enought... what should i do in this case? | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:00 Alejandrisha wrote: Sup all haven't checked this thread in a while! I have a new replay for you all. It's against 2rax reactor-tech lab with scv pull, which I didn't think this should be able to block cost effectively. It's true he didn't pull a significant amount, but I think the build holds very well. The key is you can't engage until you have enough. Once you commit and start taking damage, you're going to lose any zealots you make. So you want to hit at a time where you will 1. save your nexus, and 2. have enough units to clean it up completely. When you're opponent opens this way there is no way he can hold you off once you clean it up, so just go kill him  http://replayfu.com/download/wQTHqt Hey, this is actually a good replay! It seems that this build handles 2 rax reactor/techlab better then a normal 1 gate FE. I was doing nani's version on big maps, but yours seems better. You are also pretty safe against a fast reaper. Most terran on eu however build an engineering bay @ nat when they scout this build. It is imperative to make sure this doesn't happen. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On June 30 2011 17:44 InVerno wrote: I've lost with this build against 2rax marines expand with 5\7scv pull.. 8\10 marines + 5\6 scv, they arrived when the stalker warp is done just in time, but wasnt (for me) enought... what should i do in this case? Replay. Map, spawning positions, timings, etc. If there's no techlab (no reaper, no marauder) move out with stalkers and kite his army from the beginning, buys you some time. 6 SCV at this point in the game is huge, pull about 8-10 probes, if you can save your nexus you are way ahead. | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
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InVerno
258 Posts
 Btw i try to explain.. Map was ruined temple, spawning was close air. Marines\scv arrives at my base exatcly in time for the 3 stalker warp.. i cant do so much damage kiting all map long because ive got only 2 stalkers..im master player, but that close kite maybe can do more damage to my macro than to scvs.. Wasnt an marine-scv allin but i know that huge scv pull take me ahead if i save the nexus. Simply a 2 rax-nogas expand.. Ive pulled of all the probes in the expo but he killed them, and the ones at the main too.. maybe (probably) ive microed bad.. i was only wondering if there any "correct response" thats isnt "standard".. like take a fast second gas for 3 sentry, or take all my probes to the main and try to engage on\near the choke tryng to "block" outside the terran waiting more warps (i cant lost the nexus so easy, the dps of the push is not enourmous on structures) | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 30 2011 18:18 InVerno wrote: Sorry the replay is lost Btw i try to explain.. Map was ruined temple, spawning was close air. Marines\scv arrives at my base exatcly in time for the 3 stalker warp.. i cant do so much damage kiting all map long because ive got only 2 stalkers..im master player, but that close kite maybe can do more damage to my macro than to scvs.. Wasnt an marine-scv allin but i know that huge scv pull take me ahead if i save the nexus. Simply a 2 rax-nogas expand.. Ive pulled of all the probes in the expo but he killed them, and the ones at the main too.. maybe (probably) ive microed bad.. i was only wondering if there any "correct response" thats isnt "standard".. like take a fast second gas for 3 sentry, or take all my probes to the main and try to engage on\near the choke tryng to "block" outside the terran waiting more warps (i cant lost the nexus so easy, the dps of the push is not enourmous on structures) Theres no reason why you shouldn't have some presence on the map with your first stalker (and eventually the 2nd one). Take a tower. Camp outside the ramp. Your first probe IS a little more pivotal in camping the ramp since it's kind of a big deal if your 1st stalker dies to concussive shell but your probe will happily take one for the team. The only time you can't kite is when he has rauder + shell (and you never know if he'll have shell or not, so just assume he always does). If it's pure marine scv, you can kite it forever. You might think to yourself, well I am not at a level where I can do that while macroing. I don't care. You should still try and even if you fail, every time you practice this you'll get way better at it and way better as a player. Sentries are not the answer. You are already down your ramp, where your stalkers will be 10x more cost effective than sentries because of their range/speed/hp. When I say you can't engage until you had enough, I mean if he has shells or bunkers are already up; if he has only marine scv, there is NEVER a time where you can NOT engage. Ideally, you will be shooting marines 100% of the time from when the marine leaves the ramp tbh. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 30 2011 18:05 kzn wrote: Is it the case that in close-air positions you have to poke with your first stalker even if you saw a gas in case of a cloak rush? I find it beneficial to bring the stalker in a way like this ____......_____ .......|.....|...x .......|.....| This will allow you to discern if a marauder is out or not. If you don't see a shell hit you in the face, feel free to poke up the ramp and see whether or not there is a bunker there. The only way he can hold your 5 stalker + 3 zeal push is if he preemptively pulls scvs, and if you have shown the expansion and denied all scouting thereafter (which you should have :p) it is unlikely he will preemptively pull; he will pull the second he sees all of your units run up the ramp and smash his face in. In the meantime, go ahead and grab a 2nd gas but don't start your robo until you discern that your push will not GG him before cloak is done  edit: lol that ramp didn't come out the way i wanted it to. I think you get the point tho! edit2: ok that looks better. just ignore the dots they are merely placeholders! | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 30 2011 17:51 Anomandaris wrote: Hey, this is actually a good replay! It seems that this build handles 2 rax reactor/techlab better then a normal 1 gate FE. I was doing nani's version on big maps, but yours seems better. You are also pretty safe against a fast reaper. Most terran on eu however build an engineering bay @ nat when they scout this build. It is imperative to make sure this doesn't happen. I figured it was only a matter of time before they started doing that! I think that a "standard" 1gate FE has the potential to be as strong as this build against reactor-tech lab. It's just that when people 1gate FE, they put more emphasis on CB'ing units and probes rather than their WG research. This build is so strong against early threats because it has the SAME WG TIMING AS A 4GATE. You can obviously modify a regular 1gate fe to have the same WG timing as a 4gate, but you wouldn't have all 3 gates up in time (some variations I have seen get 3 gates by the time WG finishes, but it is at least 20-30 seconds later); having all 3 gates up in time is what gives this build that sudden explosion of units that allows you to parry reactor-tech lab. | ||
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Infestedx
Canada27 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On June 30 2011 23:01 Alejandrisha wrote: I figured it was only a matter of time before they started doing that! If this catches on, then I guess we have to pull 2 probes preemptively and play the same micro-shenanigans as zerg... | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 30 2011 23:11 sleepingdog wrote: If this catches on, then I guess we have to pull 2 probes preemptively and play the same micro-shenanigans as zerg... Yeah. The delaying of the expo worries me but what worries me even more is those few seconds the first stalker is pinned to the ebay. Though I guess your 1st stalker would come much faster since your not making a nexus before it xD | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
I'm considering re-doing the whole guide so that the old build (pre wg nerf) is no longer included as we have found a build that is stronger and better suited for the new patch. Do you think this is necessary? Or do you think we are ok o_0 | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On June 30 2011 23:20 Alejandrisha wrote: Contributors- I'm considering re-doing the whole guide so that the old build (pre wg nerf) is no longer included as we have found a build that is stronger and better suited for the new patch. Do you think this is necessary? Or do you think we are ok o_0 Agree, having the old build doesn't make much sense any more.....but no need for some sort of new write-up, just take the "wg nerf considerations" part as standard BO and it's gonna be fine. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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RobCorso
United States111 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 30 2011 23:49 RobCorso wrote: Stupid question but, would this be viable in pvp? No. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On June 30 2011 23:46 Alejandrisha wrote: OK I updated OP should make more sense now post patch Thanks so much for the contribution to the community, Alejandrisha! Would be easy to just keep this in your pocket, but you're a generous soul. Particularly for those of us Ps that can't follow the scene as often as we'd like, threads like this are invaluable for allowing us to remain competitive and strategically sound on ladder. Appreciate it! | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
It works pretty nice, you can usually take a 3rd right after they push and fail into your single colossus army... | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
I really like the overall concept of cutting the Zealot, since lately I've been having a hard time finding a use for the darn thing other than running up the ramp to scout the Terran. A lot of times you just don't need it. | ||
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