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Ok, so the horde of forumcrafters who ruins every strategy thread is here now. I'm sure some of them don't play zerg or protoss, and I'm sure most of them haven't even tried the strategy or faced it.
What you guys are saying is, because protoss can make a theoretical ideal composition against it, it's not viable. I should not explain why this reasoning is flawed (it's obvious), but if your theorycraft goes that far, why not take one step ahead and say that the ideal composition the protoss have to make can not work because there's an ideal zerg composition that counter it ? There is no difference.
More, this composition is to be used when the protoss goes deathball. It's a reaction. So theorycrafting this does not work because the P will always be omniscient and change his composition from what every protoss does 95% of the time in vZ to a perfect counter is bad, you should stop ruining every thread with this crap.
Strategy and builds like this are what make matchups evolve. People like you who always say in everythread "this doesn't work in my perfect world" are what make matchup stagnate.
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I'm watching Sen do this on his stream right now. His opponent blinks forwards small groups of stalkers and snipes the infestors, or lifts them with pheonixes. I tuned in late, but we're onto 200/200 round number 3 (at least) against the Protoss stalker/collosus blob! Corruptors added this time.
(Update: And despite 8 broodlords, Protoss wins!)
It doesn't look any better than roach corruptor to be honest.
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my rule for toss is:
scout with hallucination --> roaches, go robo
anything other roaches ---> twilight tech
hts seem like it would counter both lings and infestors
half a storm = every ling dies
1 feedback and the infestor dies
hts are cheaper than infestors.
???
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On April 21 2011 09:20 Dragar wrote:
I'm watching Sen do this on his stream right now. His opponent blinks forwards small groups of stalkers and snipes the infestors, or lifts them with pheonixes. I tuned in late, but we're onto 200/200 round number 3 (at least) against the Protoss stalker/collosus blob! Corruptors added this time.
(Update: And despite 8 broodlords, Protoss wins!)
It doesn't look any better than roach corruptor to be honest.
Do you mean the game just now on Shakuras Plateau? He was at top left, Protoss started top right.
In that game, he maxed out on many roaches and some infestors. When his handful of infestors went in to NP the colossi, the protoss just picked them up with phoenixes to cancel the spells.Because roaches fire from a distance, and he didn't fungal the Protoss army, the stalkers blinked/walked forward to snipe off infestors. 200/200 roach/infestor just doesn't cut-it.
Zergling-Infestor would have crushed what the Protoss had (At the Protoss third base in front of his natural).
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I just tried this build , opening with spanisiwas opening into infestor lings with fast upgrades, The first time I faced the deathball I had 15 infestors 3 ultras and rest lings with a splattering of banelings. and i totally fucked up my macro but still just about killed him , I said to him " shit man if i had of neuraled all your collosi you of got spanked" and he just said " yeah right" next engagement i got the neural off and he was destroyed. That + bane drops on his 3rd and nat was awesome :D Thanks for this build OP more lolz for me in a match up I hate so much.
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What I think is unfair, the zerg has to have perfect timing all around, like 1 or 2 key supply blocks and you're screwed pretty much. It's also so stupid that zerg has to micro the surround, micro under ff's, micro FG's and NP and macro up the 300 food army AND drop banelings with moving overlords all while trying to attack the protoss deathball. and don't even get me started on the setup of where to engage as well. Where as the protoss hits f, click, click, click, click, click, and a-move.
Once the protoss adds in more than 10 voids you're screwed with this strat unless you have ultras, broods, and TONS of corrupters. And get the perfect fungals off at least three times and hold colos for full length of time with NP each time.
The whole problem with zerg vs protoss deathball is the amount of micro skill it takes for zerg and how little it takes for protoss to just a-move and crush everything the zerg has.
It's almost like if there was a race that revolved solely on stutter stepping their units (aka, if you didn't stutter step, you would auto lose no matter what)
that's pretty much what it is like, if you don't micro absoloutley perfect against the deathball, and macro reinforcments perfectly you're going to get stomped. end of story.
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On April 21 2011 10:40 SaviorSelf wrote:
What I think is unfair, the zerg has to have perfect timing all around, like 1 or 2 key supply blocks and you're screwed pretty much. It's also so stupid that zerg has to micro the surround, micro under ff's, micro FG's and NP and macro up the 300 food army AND drop banelings with moving overlords all while trying to attack the protoss deathball. and don't even get me started on the setup of where to engage as well. Where as the protoss hits f, click, click, click, click, click, and a-move.
Once the protoss adds in more than 10 voids you're screwed with this strat unless you have ultras, broods, and TONS of corrupters. And get the perfect fungals off at least three times and hold colos for full length of time with NP each time.
The whole problem with zerg vs protoss deathball is the amount of micro skill it takes for zerg and how little it takes for protoss to just a-move and crush everything the zerg has.
It's almost like if there was a race that revolved solely on stutter stepping their units (aka, if you didn't stutter step, you would auto lose no matter what)
that's pretty much what it is like, if you don't micro absoloutley perfect against the deathball, and macro reinforcments perfectly you're going to get stomped. end of story.
Yea thats how all us zergs feel, but TBH complaining about it wont do anything. We gotta come up with something.
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So I've been playing around with this all day, and I'm pretty convinced.
Stopping 6 gate is not as trivial as some might lead you to believe, but I think that once you get into a healthy mid-game, this type of strategy is absolutely overwhelmingly powerful against a traditional deathball.
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On April 21 2011 10:56 MrBitter wrote:
So I've been playing around with this all day, and I'm pretty convinced.
Stopping 6 gate is not as trivial as some might lead you to believe, but I think that once you get into a healthy mid-game, this type of strategy is absolutely overwhelmingly powerful against a traditional deathball.
its pretty good, the only thing i dont like is having to deal with early aggression with alot of stalkers/zealots and still being a race to get your infestors out so you don't die from 1 tiny push
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As Protoss WTF do we do, this build has been smashing me mid game for the last two weeks.
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sad thing is now infestors r OP
User was temp banned for this post.
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The last vid was a bit bad. If you take all of a protoss' colossi ( in this case a close to sufficient 2) and use it against them while it is surrounded, it takes a no brainer to tell that the splash will do hordes of damage and the toss will lose the ifght if you have an army of any kind. Also, the fact that fungal growth is there too, it is overkill. Now what if you fungalled then pulled the colossus in your range so it's even more one sided, hmmmm
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YAY as a toss im happy to see that all the zerg cry was for nothing, if of course this is as viable as it look like.
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wow thats unreal, if those were high level games, this is crazy, the Z seemed to be down in food and still won, good to know for those P deathballs
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On April 21 2011 12:40 KhAlleB wrote:
YAY as a toss im happy to see that all the zerg cry was for nothing, if of course this is as viable as it look like.
Kind of Ironic how littler people used to make Infestors, and then they turn out to be the solution to pretty much all of Zergs mid to late game worries in every matchup.
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![[image loading]](http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110211/2755646virus.PNG)
can you upload to another site maybe?
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Yeah so I'm finding this extremely strong once you get all nice and set up, have drops and upgrades, etc. Against any balls this thing wrecks like mad, and I am killing balls that are 2x 3x more resource heavy, sometimes I'm even down in supply. And once you hit hive with ultras it just becomes trivial. It's also easy to prevent the big balls because of how strong baneling drops are.
The issue is getting there safely against 5/6 gate all in. Spanishiwa style stops the 4 gate all nice, but I just really really feel like I need roaches the majority of the time I face 5/6 gates. I've stopped a few of them, but it was incredibly difficult and I feel like I needed him to mess up with the FFs. Even 4 gate on maps like xel naga or close positions on some maps is pretty tough to hold without roaches.
Essentially I'm finding it difficult to survive against earlier aggression without roaches. Quite the opposite of the deathball problem.
Mass mass void rays is yet to be an issue I've had yet. Constant ling aggression means that he always needs to be making sentries/stalkers etc. so he can't make a lot of void rays. I basically just used a spore crawler and some queens to fight most void rays. I imagine against mass void rays a muta switch might be viable; delayed muta/ling sounds pretty interesting, especially with some baneling drops to smash sentries.
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On April 21 2011 13:56 nymeria wrote:
can you upload to another site maybe?
done
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started watching your game vs  Ryze
Clearly, this isn't what I'm advocating for. This thread is about mass infestors to secure the map in the mid-game.
he doesn't research neural parasite.
starting hive off two base at the 9:49 mark.
spire at 10:28.
greater spire at 12:08. 94/150 supply, 4 infestor and 31 lings. (both of you are turtling)
first blood at 12:55. One of the two dt's you send to separate bases kills 10 drones.
corruptor production begins at 13:15. He has 4 infestors and three bases (vs your two base) on a map with 14 bases. (backwater gulch)
morphing to brood lords at 14:07. 136/158 supply.
16:23 - 9 brood lords, 2 corruptors, 4 infestors poke at your 21 blink stalker, 7 sentry, 3 colossi, 1 dt, 3 zealot force at your ramp to the middle (173/192 to 150/150, 66-67 workers. Army supply of 100-83) He's floating 1160/720 vs your 700/421.
Immediately after casting two fungals(whoa, no cooldown on casting fungal?), your colossi roast it(it was at half health from a random dt in the middle). a full health, 200 energy infestor casts one fungal before your entire army one shots it. As his 42 lings arrive in single file line heading straight at the lazers attacking his third infestor, he casts another fungal on 7 stalkers, leaving 12 to blink forward and snipe two brood lords. Meanwhile, he has sent 52 lings to attack your third, but your simcity is good and the lings cannot get good surface area on the cannons so they retreat. He has 50 energy remaing (enough energy for 2 infested terrans but no fungal). You retreat to the safety of your cannons (11 stalkers, 3 colossi, 3 sentry, 1 dt, and 1 zealot) and bait 10 of his non-hotkeyed lings into them. He regroups his forces (63 lings, 7 brood lords, 2 infestors) in the middle.
Supply 139-118, Army Supply 66-51. I'd say that battle was about even. The problem is he wanted to deny your third, and during the heat of the battle, started production of 38 zerglings.
I want to see that engagement again but with him flanking your army with all of his lings and neural parasiting your three colossi after casting fungals. He also is 25% on upgrading +2, not ideal for such a major engagement.
There's 12 more minutes left in the replay that I'll let others watch so they can see how you turn 3 base turtle Protoss into a win vs fast hive tech.
I'm gonna skip watching the Spanishiwa replay. That's a different style than Mass Infestors, from what I've seen on his stream and heard.
Being a featured Strategy Forum poster, I'd be more careful about going around saying "How to beat this..." with any proposed build.
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EPT
