EPT[D] Mass Infestors - Dominate ZvP Mid-Game - Page 15
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apalemorning
Canada509 Posts
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Mithrandir
United States99 Posts
On April 21 2011 19:45 WhiteDog wrote: I'm a 3k5 master zerg on eu pre reset, I tell you, if the protoss is good enough with force field, it's really hard to defend a 6 gate all in with ling bling, not saying it's impossible, but the protoss can do massive damage. Now yes, burrowed bling might be a good choice. Aquanda is very different, he is fast expanding (3rd between 5 & 6min ?) and making a shitload of ling bling with upgrade (fasty +1), that's delaying the infestor by quite a few time: you might not have it in time to counter the 6gate. I think my pb comes from my bo, I did not get infestor fast enough to kill the sentries with FG (which is great). If you meant no 3rd hatch, no +1, or no burrow, then I misunderstood and yes I agree a sentry heavy 5,6 gate is near impossible without lots of static defenses or roaches. | ||
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nymeria
United States161 Posts
archons don't have maelstrom in sc2 | ||
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
It suddenly just feels that the dynamic of the matchup is gone and now zergs playstyle of macro and now when a zerg army can stand up to the protoss deathball AND be able to be replentished in seconds, it just feels retardedly overpowered. Anyone who actually lost a macro game? | ||
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nymeria
United States161 Posts
 Zelniq ViBE TitanPro's I've seen use another method: IdrA Ret HayprO Sen CatZOn April 22 2011 06:33 Neo.NEt wrote: The only thing I don't like about this thread is how it says "Basics on how to inject properly" and has a video to the backspace inject method like that is the way you are supposed to inject (I'm at work so the links are messed up and it makes the whole page look weird so you could have 2 different videos there and I wouldn't know). As far as I know 99% of pros don't use the backspace method and I used it for months and am finally switching away from it b/c it's cost me so many games..... Please backup your claim of 99% of pros don't use the backspace method. If you mean 99% of featured live user zerg streamers, I might agree with that. Being a featured streamer does not mean your mechanics are the right mechanics. Think about how mechanics in BroodWar from 1998-2002 have evolved into today's standards. It's a bit of a stretch, but saying the backspace (pros remap the "Base Camera" to more convenient hotkeys such as ` and Q) method cost you so many games is akin to someone saying grouping up mutalisks with an overlord to force them to stack better cost them so many games because their overlords kept flying into Terran units/turrets. [On 2010-05-17 12:54:16 Zelniq wrote:[Base Camera method] is ridiculously fast multiple spawn larvaes, all zergs should immediately start doing this, can be off microing a battle and spend less than 1 second to inject 5 hatches. source: [Spawn Larvae] Right Side Shift + Backspace Method On April 15 2011 09:25 Day[9] wrote:v shift backspace! everyone's already said it but, because i know about it, i want to participate and seem knowledgeable  source: How does Vibe inject so fast ?? On February 24 2011 02:57 Sv1 wrote: conclude is that the [injects] missed from your MIWs (Missed Injection Windows) are esentially units that will not enter the game source: [D] Larva Injection Analysis On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote: Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? | ||
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
On April 22 2011 06:54 Daimai wrote: Yeah so anyone who can tell me how I actually beat this? Its insane and suddenly turns the scales HEAVILY into the favor of the zerg (mapcontrol + army stronger than protoss max + ability to take mass bases while protoss cant). It suddenly just feels that the dynamic of the matchup is gone and now zergs playstyle of macro and now when a zerg army can stand up to the protoss deathball AND be able to be replentished in seconds, it just feels retardedly overpowered. Anyone who actually lost a macro game? plz dont start -_- we enough said to zerg player to ry to beat toss why will we start crying imba now ? | ||
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
okay lets allow other Z players to have the delusion that muta sniping in sc2 will be effective as it was in sc1 | ||
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
On April 22 2011 06:57 KhAlleB wrote: plz dont start -_- we enough said to zerg player to ry to beat toss why will we start crying imba now ? Thats why I'm asking for help and not yelling imba... | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 22 2011 06:54 Daimai wrote: Yeah so anyone who can tell me how I actually beat this? Its insane and suddenly turns the scales HEAVILY into the favor of the zerg (mapcontrol + army stronger than protoss max + ability to take mass bases while protoss cant). It suddenly just feels that the dynamic of the matchup is gone and now zergs playstyle of macro and now when a zerg army can stand up to the protoss deathball AND be able to be replentished in seconds, it just feels retardedly overpowered. Anyone who actually lost a macro game? 6gate beats every non roach or hydra opening, if done properly, because it hits before infestors are out. If you cant beat speedling/baneling with 6gate you have to train your forcefields. Well if you want to beat it in a longer game: high temps to feedback the infestor and storm the trapped lings will instakill this composition, but it requires a lot of micro. Archons are great too. I could see carrier work too, if you can snipe his infestors with blink, so he cant mindcontrol... | ||
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Owarida
United States333 Posts
On April 22 2011 06:54 Daimai wrote: Yeah so anyone who can tell me how I actually beat this? Its insane and suddenly turns the scales HEAVILY into the favor of the zerg (mapcontrol + army stronger than protoss max + ability to take mass bases while protoss cant). It suddenly just feels that the dynamic of the matchup is gone and now zergs playstyle of macro and now when a zerg army can stand up to the protoss deathball AND be able to be replentished in seconds, it just feels retardedly overpowered. Anyone who actually lost a macro game? Have a basic / standard death ball composition. Make sure colo are far in back. Colo have 9 range, NP is 9 rage. They can never catch you with an NP. Use FF and lings do nothing but melt to colo,t hen all thats left is a couple infestors. Pretty much auto win if you know how to micro your army and don't just 1a2a3a | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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grumpyone
48 Posts
 I still need to experiment with the best build to get to this (6 gate is my only real concern), but I have some ideas that I'll try. | ||
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Opponent
Canada32 Posts
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AzureD
United States320 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:17 Opponent wrote: I didn't read the whole 15 pages, but as a toss players (500 master) whenever i see a zerg going for lots of lings, lair and doesn't have a roach warren i will simply go 6 gates and start teching to zealots/archons/templars because it beats any tech patch the zerg decides to go at this point (mutas, hydras, or infestors). From the experience i've had the zealot/templar/archon decimate the ling/infestor/ultralisk combo. Yeah this composition is a lot stronger than the Colossus one against the likes of Ling+Infestor+Ultra. Although it does not have lasting power because once those Templar run out of energy the Protoss ball loses a lot of firepower and can be killed on the remax. Also this strategy is less effective when he keeps the Colossus separate from his army. The tighter the ball he keeps his army in the stronger Ling + Infestor becomes. | ||
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BeastofManju
United States79 Posts
In the first Fight: IF YOU LOOK really really closely... you can see 8 stalkers are target firing the overseer for some incredibly strange reason..... bypassing all of the zerg units even getting caught on their way there... strange why target the overseer there weere no DT's in the picture either..? had they have no been target firing the overseer the protoss composition would have easily won. Am I the only one who SEES THIS? The second video contains a secrect gem trick that the protoss player might not have thought/known about but the counter was right in front of his eyes. When the zerg meet with the protoss army he had a free phoneix with 200 energy... The phoneix could have graviton beamed the infesters that were targeting the collusus with nueral parasite. It had enough to stop 4 infestors parasites which would have swung the battle largely in the favor of the protoss. The third fight clearly shows and overwhelming zerg cost army 17 infestors and fought on the zerg creep it came as no surpise to me that the zerg won. And the last fight I must give credit where credit is due... pure brillance by the zerg. Although it was on has own creep it shows the power of ultralisks stepping over forcefields so that the banelings and fungal growth can get to their prize. Creep makes a diffrence. All in all I was amazed really of the last video show in the youtube clip in the OP. That clearly showed the power of Infestors IMO. However all of these videos seemed to show zerg with ~190ish pop going against a protoss with slight more 195~ pop with IMO seems to be more of a LATE game composition then a MID game compositon in which the OP seems to says it dominates. However I must agree that Infestors were gaining alot more viablity in the patch and more usefullness. But I do not belive it is "overwhelmingly powerful" as the OP describes. | ||
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Alphasquad
Austria505 Posts
it also makes me think that this strategy has always been viable but none tried as the dps of fg didnt seem to be the critical thing but having enough infestors to fungal multiple times and riskless neuraling for colossi | ||
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Fishermang
Norway56 Posts
I am wondering, which order is it best to micromanage such a battle? What goes first? Lings, followed by fungals, followed by neural parasite? I am playing this on a platinum level, and it works great. As mentioned earlier in this thread, only because this may not work on a Grandmaster level, doesn't mean it isn't a good strategy. Afterall, the majority of the sc2 players are below that level. Here is a motivator image. Previously, deathball was scary. Now it's fun! This, I think, accurately describes what happens if this strategy succeeds. Remains of a deathball running away! ![[image loading]](http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5620/deathballdeath.jpg) | ||
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SteamySashimi
10 Posts
On April 22 2011 22:11 Fishermang wrote: Now practising this more, I have made it into a success. +3+3 Lings is a really stronge force, and making sure to engange in areas which are open and can more easily be surrounded makes it fantastic. I am wondering, which order is it best to micromanage such a battle? What goes first? Lings, followed by fungals, followed by neural parasite? Was wondering the exact same thing. If you could get the micro down on a thing like that I'd say the deathball just becomes another strategy you can pick apart if you know how... | ||
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krell
United States109 Posts
I'm happy Z is finally playable, but it relies too heavily on the one unit. | ||
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