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[D] Is there a way to beat Spanishiwa's build? (P) - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Maximumraver
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands124 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-21 19:47:54
April 21 2011 19:47 GMT
#141
If is see this, I mostly start expanding myself and play greedy and harass with some Warp Prism DT's it wins me most games, however, I'm only Platinum (with mostly diamond opponents lately) so their execution of the build isn't that good, I feel it could still easily beat me if done right. I can include a replay if someone wants one?
(☞/  ̄ヮ ̄) ☞/
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
April 21 2011 20:26 GMT
#142
I gotta say, even though I only play some customs now and then atm, going for DTs has given me A LOT of free-wins recently. Probably it's just my opponents being bad, but many zergs haven't figured out DT-timings in the slightest when playing this build. Many just go mass-slow-ling all-in on me while my DTs massacre their bases, then I simply stay on one base....and while one base toss vs one base zerg is already bad for zerg, one base toss vs no base zerg is just not good
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Absentia
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom973 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-21 20:32:12
April 21 2011 20:30 GMT
#143
Edit: Accidental post - sorry.
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
April 21 2011 20:55 GMT
#144
On April 22 2011 05:26 sleepingdog wrote:
I gotta say, even though I only play some customs now and then atm, going for DTs has given me A LOT of free-wins recently. Probably it's just my opponents being bad, but many zergs haven't figured out DT-timings in the slightest when playing this build. Many just go mass-slow-ling all-in on me while my DTs massacre their bases, then I simply stay on one base....and while one base toss vs one base zerg is already bad for zerg, one base toss vs no base zerg is just not good

Totally and completely right. As I've said before, with DTs, the zerg either has to handle them, or is forced to all-in. There is no base race though, the Protoss player will win every all-in because they walled off and can just plant a DT to complete the wall-off. In this case, even the worst case scenario for Protoss still results in a win.
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
thisisSSK
Profile Joined August 2010
United States179 Posts
April 22 2011 02:23 GMT
#145
can someone tell me what exactly gives away this Spanishiwa build? what should I be scouting for? Mass spines/queens?
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1438 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-22 02:36:03
April 22 2011 02:35 GMT
#146
when you are playing vileSpanishiwa?

Off the top of my head you can try 2gate chrono, or cannon the natural. If you want to test it in a macro game double expand off 1 gate.


// YMMV, I'm a random ~2500ish diamond player.
Baller Fanclub || CheAse Fanclub || Scarlett Fanclub || LJD FIGHTING!
extempest
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada77 Posts
April 22 2011 02:58 GMT
#147
I'm not sure, but I've been experimenting with early HT build,

HT can be utilize for feedback-ing queens and infestors,
while archons can deal with the speedlings
always reaching
headbus
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada173 Posts
April 22 2011 03:20 GMT
#148
Idra talked about this on state of the game.

Without gas zerg has no way of putting pressure on protoss. Granted this build smashes 4 gates and other early pressure if toss decides to expand, mass probes + cannons + tech what can zerg do?

Generally I've been going VERY fast third with cannons then fairly large amount of gateways + blink stalkers. Keep in mind this is from a top25masters player and I don't have that much trouble with it as most of my builds vs zerg nowadays are 14nex or forge FE.
Dayv
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4 Posts
April 22 2011 03:59 GMT
#149
Its exactly what spanishiwa said an opener that sets you up for mid to late game while relying on your mechanics being better then your opponents. Everything after transitions build etc is player reliant. Its a slight change to ZvX meta game where zerg is very vulnerable early game since the connecting of bases queens and crawlers are good to deal with super early aggression, while still timing up to timing pushes set by other players so long as you have better execution.
NukeFish
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada6 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-01 23:32:31
April 26 2011 04:43 GMT
#150
I think the real strength of Spanishiwa's build is the fact that he gets extremely fast upgrades. I haven't tested this out yet, but I think that a 2gate + stargate pumping out zealots and phoenixes might be able to take on this build. Adding a forge to get +1 attack might be a good idea too. Zealots counter lings, and the phoenixes could go after the queens, or at the very least go overlord hunting.

After expanding, you could then add more gateways, another forge, and start teching depending on what he is doing. For Infestors, I'd get Templars for feedback. For any of his late game compositions (Ultralisk or Broodlord) I'd keep going phoenix and void ray, and add another stargate.

Keep in mind this is all theoretical, and I haven't tested it out at all. Your thoughts?

edit: doesn't work.
One fish, two fish, red fish, NUKE FISH!
backtoback
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada1276 Posts
April 26 2011 05:30 GMT
#151
wow very late gas from spanishswa. I wonder if his build transitions properly if scouted a proxy stargate hidden. Minigun should of tried that. I guess fast third or a secured natural will do. Just got to make sure you catch the tech and drops from the zerg.
StutteR
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1903 Posts
April 26 2011 05:35 GMT
#152
On April 22 2011 11:23 thisisSSK wrote:
can someone tell me what exactly gives away this Spanishiwa build? what should I be scouting for? Mass spines/queens?


No gas is the first sign. After that a lot of spines and slow lings?
`~` | effOrt Movie sKyHigh forever & SEn
RMmanlots
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
April 26 2011 06:59 GMT
#153
I'm a terrible (zerg) player, but I always get beat by my my protoss practice partner going 1 base hidden tech. I did this build a lot during beta, and I found it worthless against a player that knows how to counter it. Against a 1 base teching protoss, I had to blindly prepare for a 4 gate with spine crawlers, voidrays with queens, and DTs with spore crawlers. Its simply too much to have to blind counter, and scouting is too easy too deny.

He also had some success with zealot, sentry, immortal, and a fast + 1 attack. Immortals DESTROY spine crawlers, and its hard to get to them with the lings without getting forcefielded and annihilated.
Do you want to live forever?
Nore
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand128 Posts
April 26 2011 07:26 GMT
#154
On April 26 2011 15:59 RMmanlots wrote:
I'm a terrible (zerg) player, but I always get beat by my my protoss practice partner going 1 base hidden tech. I did this build a lot during beta, and I found it worthless against a player that knows how to counter it. Against a 1 base teching protoss, I had to blindly prepare for a 4 gate with spine crawlers, voidrays with queens, and DTs with spore crawlers. Its simply too much to have to blind counter, and scouting is too easy too deny.

He also had some success with zealot, sentry, immortal, and a fast + 1 attack. Immortals DESTROY spine crawlers, and its hard to get to them with the lings without getting forcefielded and annihilated.


this build is actually made to defend against 1 base all in...

I find that a forge expand or just FE will be the hardest to deal with.

In the OP i notice a lot of attention to the unit composition being a problem not the build it self, so i'd say control of units / unit composition or macro is the biggest issue here.
Yacashui
Profile Joined March 2011
United States13 Posts
April 26 2011 07:32 GMT
#155
PEOPLE, the easiest way to beat this start is just to have good macro and micro and especially the most important thing to note is that this style is based on getting bases, so obviously ur first priority is to delay the expos as much as possible so he cant get to the situation he wants it: off 3 bases on hive tech with upgrades
haro everynyan
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
April 26 2011 08:05 GMT
#156
The ways I've lost doing this are typically:

ZvZ: you lose

ZvP: A fast 1base immortal/zealot push does really bad things to this build. Slowlings get shown the what for by the zealots, who do ok against spine crawlwers, and then the immortals just knock the crawlers down so fast.

ZvT: I don't think I've lost ZvT with this build except to bunker rushes hidden in darkness that I managed not to scout.
NukeFish
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada6 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-01 23:32:10
April 26 2011 08:24 GMT
#157
I haven't tried it out yet, but has anyone given any thought to a mothership rush w/ zealots? No detection + vortex seems like it could end the game pretty quick for zerg.

edit: doesn't work.
One fish, two fish, red fish, NUKE FISH!
Keilah
Profile Joined May 2010
731 Posts
April 26 2011 08:35 GMT
#158
i haven't faced this many times but when i have, chronoing out a warp prism and warpgating has worked for me
RimJaynor
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada145 Posts
April 26 2011 08:59 GMT
#159
I use this build all the time, in ZVZ i have a hard time dealing with 2 base ling/bane all in. Your spine placement is very crucial for this. In addition your drone micro to avoid as many casualties as possible (drone wise)
http://www.youtube.com/user/RimJaynorSCII?feature=mhum Check out my channel. Masters Zerg Player
KarlSpaat
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany8 Posts
April 26 2011 09:46 GMT
#160
As Terran u can make a 4-7 Rax allin and kill him, cause he has no Banes or Roaches.
Look at http://www.terransc.blogspot.com/ for further informations.

I asked a friend to do Spanishiwas build and kicked his but with my allins.
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