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On March 05 2011 15:16 GeNeSiDe wrote:
People complain because you can't go hatchfirst in TvZ: my reply to that is that your not meant to go blind hatchfirst every game, i like zergs like you because i always scout close pos. first so if i discover a z goin hatchfirst block expo and 2rax pressure works a charm...learn dynamic play not cookie-cutter builds!
Oh the ironing.
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On March 07 2011 14:51 AlphaWhale wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 15:16 GeNeSiDe wrote:
People complain because you can't go hatchfirst in TvZ: my reply to that is that your not meant to go blind hatchfirst every game, i like zergs like you because i always scout close pos. first so if i discover a z goin hatchfirst block expo and 2rax pressure works a charm...learn dynamic play not cookie-cutter builds! Oh the ironing.
Ya, alpha, i love these terrens who play with 40 APM, do the same overpowered crap abusive crap every game, and always tell zerg to "learn to play".
What is zerg supposed to do other then hatch first? Pool first is basically an automatic loss anyways, terren is able to make bunkers at the ramp, and then you are stuck 1 base and you have lost. Or he makes blue flame hellions, or banshees, or whatever, all of which is impossible to defend on one base without depth, extra income/production, etc.
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On March 05 2011 10:38 meRz wrote:
Is this possible at all spawning locations?
this is the key issue
if its possible at all spawn points, its not imbalanced, just a very strong strategy on a particular map.
if its only possible at certain spawn points, then that is a map imbalance and either needs to be addressed in the form of making it possible at all spawn points or impossible on all.
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you can hit like 1 mineral.. i wouldnt say its a huge deal
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this seems wrong, being able to siege a main from outside should never be in a map, then again this is why i veto this one
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On March 05 2011 10:38 meRz wrote:
Is this possible at all spawning locations?
is it my eyes or is your post background is actually "teamliquid-blue" ?
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On March 06 2011 00:46 Steel wrote:I don't think this map is very balanced or fun at all, really. + Show Spoiler +-natural far from ramp: very hard to defend This also applies for the opponent.
-gigantic ledge in the middle of the map; tank and collosi heaven You can use mutas or corruptors.
-useless low ground middle with a useless xel'naga tower. Those positions are supose to give you a strategic advantage while this one puts you at a disadvantage. Then don't take it.
-random hallway in the back to make nice little tank pushes that are extremely difficult to stop If you know that he is going for it, you should be able to stop it.
-most convenient third base is the gold, which is close by air distance but far by ground; it's on the low ground. The same applies for the opponent. There is another gold on the other side of the map, too.
I think it's a pretty terrible map. I think it's a good map since we don't need just standard macro default generic normal common maps.
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you can hit the main in metalopolis too
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well since zerg FEs pretty much on any map I dont see how there is a difference here and and the maps where you can seige a nat. And you can seige a nat at about any second map.
Edit: oops, forgot about other races... Ok its imba.
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On March 08 2011 18:25 Tetryl wrote:
you can hit the main in metalopolis too
Pretty much this. Although I fully agree that the maps sucks balls, the op is hardly proof. If you have to siege directly below the cliff to hit anything important, then there isn't a problem. Roaches/hydras/infestors/any ranged unit can hit them from above in that position. The problem in steppes is that you can siege up the nat, and no zerg units can hit them from the nat....kind of like the nat is slag...but I digress. At least in slag, you can move down one of the 5 ramps going to your nat, and get to the tanks unlike steppes.
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The only thing i see as bad design is the surface area on the 9 o'clock base. You can scan once and literally reveal everything.
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On March 08 2011 18:25 Tetryl wrote:
you can hit the main in metalopolis too
ditto with Xel Naga...
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really bad map in general. Close Pos on it is worse than steppes of war. The main plateau is super tiny.
First map ever i had to thump down.
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Thanks for the advice! Suckers! haha. This is actually a nice little trick I'll have to employ soon.
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On March 08 2011 22:41 fearus wrote:ditto with Xel Naga...
No comparison. You can only hit mains if you capture his natural. This siege-up happens very far from the base entrance and natural.
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My God. Bronze players discussing imbalance again. This makes me cry tears of blood.
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On March 08 2011 17:21 Dhalphir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 10:38 meRz wrote:
Is this possible at all spawning locations? this is the key issue if its possible at all spawn points, its not imbalanced, just a very strong strategy on a particular map. if its only possible at certain spawn points, then that is a map imbalance and either needs to be addressed in the form of making it possible at all spawn points or impossible on all.
Anyone who's even looked at the map overview can see that it's possible against all spawning locations. Therefore, no point in even assuming an "if" scenario. It's not map imbalance, just really annoying to deal with. 
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On March 07 2011 15:05 Flyingpants wrote:
Ya, alpha, i love these terrens who play with 40 APM, do the same overpowered crap abusive crap every game, and always tell zerg to "learn to play".
What is zerg supposed to do other then hatch first? Pool first is basically an automatic loss anyways, terren is able to make bunkers at the ramp, and then you are stuck 1 base and you have lost. Or he makes blue flame hellions, or banshees, or whatever, all of which is impossible to defend on one base without depth, extra income/production, etc.
Posts like this make my head hurt. A Zerg that says pool-first builds result in an automatic loss is a Zerg that probably shouldn't be giving build analysis in the first place. I recommend you go watch pro-level Zergs go pool-first in tournaments such as the GSL to learn how it's actually perfectly reasonable to do -- and in fact is considered less risky than hatch-first.
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On March 09 2011 04:30 UruzuNine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 15:05 Flyingpants wrote:
Ya, alpha, i love these terrens who play with 40 APM, do the same overpowered crap abusive crap every game, and always tell zerg to "learn to play".
What is zerg supposed to do other then hatch first? Pool first is basically an automatic loss anyways, terren is able to make bunkers at the ramp, and then you are stuck 1 base and you have lost. Or he makes blue flame hellions, or banshees, or whatever, all of which is impossible to defend on one base without depth, extra income/production, etc. Posts like this make my head hurt. A Zerg that says pool-first builds result in an automatic loss is a Zerg that probably shouldn't be giving build analysis in the first place. I recommend you go watch pro-level Zergs go pool-first in tournaments such as the GSL to learn how it's actually perfectly reasonable to do -- and in fact is considered less risky than hatch-first.
Agreed. Anyone who says pool first = insta-loss is just simply incorrect.
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On March 05 2011 10:05 eVolvE342 wrote:
I am not saying that my particular game is the reason it should be fixed... I am saying the fact that you can siege someones main from the side of their base while not being in their base should not be possible.
Also I do not see how having a missile turret would be that good.. he could easily kill off a missile turret from his position.
The turret would force the vikings to back away and thus rob him of the vision that he needs to continue to siege the CC and few SCV's he can reach.
I wouldn't say this is imbalanced at all but more like you gave him the opportunity to get into that position and he took it. Proper scouting/control of your main base would have easily stopped this.
I agree that it can be a frustrating strategy but so can a 4gate or a 6pool or a 3 rax push etc etc ad nausum, you just need to learn how to deal with and eventually negate this. Also, if this is a huge issue Bliz will be fixing it in the next patch/micro patch. In the meantime just go into your 1v1 settings and choose not to play this map.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://s.sk-gaming.com/image/image/d7185d022c9f1cb9l.jpg)
