|
On February 17 2011 21:27 DjayEl wrote:Show nested quote +As a Zerg you don't have any crazy BUT expansive combination of units which just destroy anything and allow you to end the game as soon as you have a decent macro advantage (as you had). YES YOU HAVE ! Please be merciful, watch my replay... I think i'm gonna cry :D Ultra / banes RAAAPE everything Terran has, period. Ofc if you wait the game for 30+ minutes he will ust build 20 PF and you're done, but we are not speaking about late game anymore ! 15-20 minutes IS late game, anything else is VERY late game and nobody should wait until more that 25 minutes to play then, or begin upgrades at 20 mn ! If a game goes in this stage its because players started trading armies way before and because the games keeps going on a even state. NO pro player never ever did nothing until 25min or maybe for joking, trading begin at 15mn maximum. The game is balanced because of timings, if you throw away all timings with so much game time that every timing become irrelevant, of course the game is not "balanced" but its not the way its supposed to be. 3/3 ultra bane is so powerfuls its insane, and the reason its powerful is you can get them SO FAST if you just open standard muta ling bling, then cut the mutas and expand as soon as you notice turtling. Its transitions so good its just insane, I never loose to any T turtling with that unless they manage to put insane harassement/pressure or try a desperate push before game hits 16 minutes. There is no way to wait more till you are 3/3 and have 5+ bases. Of course if he builds 50 PFs his army is not 200/200 anymore as he have lot of "static units" that does count for food, but who waits that long ??
As I said, this is NOT COST EFFICIENT: how many banelings to kill just ONE Planetary ? Not even talking about the fact that if you fail attacking, you'll prolly lost to the ultimate "press A button counter". His replay also show how Ultras were useless against Thors, i mean, again, not cost efficient. Terran has the stronger static non-food unit (PF), and the ability to spend extra minerals repairing while being 200/200. So once he's supply blocked, he becomes more and more powerfull; it's the total opposite for Zerg.
ps: you really think that you're a genius using ultra/bane? Yes most of the Zergs know about it, we've all tried that, it's powerful, but that is not the topic.
|
well thank you for posting that, i watched it and it is perfectly irrelevant. He had 0 PFs in your way as well as he put his army out there and waited till you just surround it and kill it.
You had nice upgrades, which is cool, but i couldnt possibly start my upgrades as early as you did, as i needed all my gas from 3 base on dealing with his mass viking, maintaining mapcontrol and air supperiority.
"Ofc if you wait 45min when he has 10+ PF standing all around, this is another story. And yes, by this time I think you cant win anymore, but I dont know if at this stage it has anything to do with balance."
thank, you that's what you should have wrote down to begin with, i'm looking for solutions at that stage, if you dont know any, thank you for watching it, and end of story. I personally never said it is a matter of balance, i stated i felt helpless.
Sorry man, I didnt told you to compare my compo to MY opponent who didn have PFs. I asked you to see my compo and try it against 2 PFs and what your opponent get at this time. Man, please ! He got 92 food !! You could add 2, 3 or 4 PF if does not change anything for a 200/200 upgraded ultra bane ! Please why dont u try in the unit tester. Try. He just cant do anything ! I promise.
And yes you can start upgrades, why dont you care for air control at all ?
When I see T open mass viking as didn even bother to go mutas as it is too late. I just do 4-5 infestors to prevent harassement, and thats the only gas spent I got for 15mn !
You look at solutions of a stage taht does not exist because no players wait for that long, actually long games happen because of even trades, NEVER EVER because players refuses to attack before 25 minutes. Whatch Idra vs Idontrememberwho games in the beta, where the guy has shitloads of PFs constantly dying to Ultras Idra's made, which die instantly after, then ressupplied. And Idra wins after a very long time, because he took the lead INT TIMING and in putting constant pressure, not a lead of minerals and staying totally passive.
A'm amazed you dont understand that.
You know what ? I know who you are. You're a believer. You like theses guys who just want to believe something because it makes them comfortable and when reality contradict their believes, they just reject it and deny. Yourself said in the OP that you wanted to believe something, at first glance I didnt get exaclty what you meant,but here it is. I should not have lost my time.
Its the hard truth, it its serve any purpose : you CANT win with Zerg in a veeeery late game when timings vanishes and T just do anything he wants for too much time. The game is not balanced the way a zerg can win not punishing T, never ever, just by having an economic lead. Its not true, its not the reality. Your reasonning behind Zerg is partially correct, but it becomes wrong at a point.
To show you the divergence, lets talk about the infinite, cause it makes many thinks appear : imagine you have INFITINE ressources and INFINITE space and INFINITE time, e.g a situations where the timings disapear. Its not a RTS anymore. In this case, you got the best possible super strong 200/200 army witch maxed upgrades and Terran has the same. You got infinite hatcheries and he got infinite building structures.
Guess what ? You screwed. Because he can put infinite PFs and you just infinite Spines, and spines did not do anything to a T maxed army while PF count as actual fighting units. So everytime you fight, you will just get decimated if you take PF into account, and no matter how much you are rebuilding, there will be no divergence in ressoucees, or maybe one can demonstrate you will loose them at a higher rate than Terran. So its tends to be zero versus infinite in favor of T.
Why is this ? Because of the 200/200 supply limit. Everything else grows bigger, but you only can have 200/200 limited army, and that it becom less and less useful while Terran builds static defenses.
BUT NO ONE DONT CARE. Because in an actual game, with actual timings, Terran CANNOT set up a bigger army that ultra ling at the time Zerg attacks and have in the meatime that many PF that the game becomes imbalanced.
Therefore your premise is just wrong, and you dont seek advice to an actual game issue. You seek people who believe in the same fantasies you do about this game, and you are just disrespectful of people's time and brain content, which is arrogant and will lead you nowhere to become a better player, which would help you a lot.
Enough said, I was trapped by the master thing and thought about it being a true discussion, I didn think master scrubs actually exist.
Goodbye.
|
On February 17 2011 21:47 DjayEl wrote:+ Show Spoiler +well thank you for posting that, i watched it and it is perfectly irrelevant. He had 0 PFs in your way as well as he put his army out there and waited till you just surround it and kill it.
You had nice upgrades, which is cool, but i couldnt possibly start my upgrades as early as you did, as i needed all my gas from 3 base on dealing with his mass viking, maintaining mapcontrol and air supperiority.
"Ofc if you wait 45min when he has 10+ PF standing all around, this is another story. And yes, by this time I think you cant win anymore, but I dont know if at this stage it has anything to do with balance."
thank, you that's what you should have wrote down to begin with, i'm looking for solutions at that stage, if you dont know any, thank you for watching it, and end of story. I personally never said it is a matter of balance, i stated i felt helpless. Sorry man, I didnt told you to compare my compo to MY opponent who didn have PFs. I asked you to see my compo and try it against 2 PFs and what your opponent get at this time. Man, please ! He got 92 food !! You could add 2, 3 or 4 PF if does not change anything for a 200/200 upgraded ultra bane ! Please why dont u try in the unit tester. Try. He just cant do anything ! I promise. And yes you can start upgrades, why dont you care for air control at all ? When I see T open mass viking as didn even bother to go mutas as it is too late. I just do 4-5 infestors to prevent harassement, and thats the only gas spent I got for 15mn ! You look at solutions of a stage taht does not exist because no players wait for that long, actually long games happen because of even trades, NEVER EVER because players refuses to attack before 25 minutes. Whatch Idra vs Idontrememberwho games in the beta, where the guy has shitloads of PFs constantly dying to Ultras Idra's made, which die instantly after, then ressupplied. And Idra wins after a very long time, because he took the lead INT TIMING and in putting constant pressure, not a lead of minerals and staying totally passive. A'm amazed you dont understand that. You know what ? I know who you are. You're a believer. You like theses guys who just want to believe something because it makes them comfortable and when reality contradict their believes, they just reject it and deny. Yourself said in the OP that you wanted to believe something, at first glance I didnt get exaclty what you meant,but here it is. I should not have lost my time. Its the hard truth, it its serve any purpose : you CANT win with Zerg in a veeeery late game when timings vanishes and T just do anything he wants for too much time. The game is not balanced the way a zerg can win not punishing T, never ever, just by having an economic lead. Its not true, its not the reality. Your reasonning behind Zerg is partially correct, but it becomes wrong at a point. To show you the divergence, lets talk about the infinite, cause it makes many thinks appear : imagine you have INFITINE ressources and INFINITE space and INFINITE time, e.g a situations where the timings disapear. Its not a RTS anymore. In this case, you got the best possible super strong 200/200 army witch maxed upgrades and Terran has the same. You got infinite hatcheries and he got infinite building structures. Guess what ? You screwed. Because he can put infinite PFs and you just infinite Spines, and spines did not do anything to a T maxed army while PF count as actual fighting units. So everytime you fight, you will just get decimated if you take PF into account, and no matter how much you are rebuilding, there will be no divergence in ressoucees, or maybe one can demonstrate you will loose them at a higher rate than Terran. So its tends to be zero versus infinite in favor of T. Why is this ? Because of the 200/200 supply limit. Everything else grows bigger, but you only can have 200/200 limited army, and that it becom less and less useful while Terran builds static defenses. BUT NO ONE DONT CARE. Because in an actual game, with actual timings, Terran CANNOT set up a bigger army that ultra ling at the time Zerg attacks and have in the meatime that many PF that the game becomes imbalanced. Therefore your premise is just wrong, and you dont seek advice to an actual game issue. You seek people who believe in the same fantasies you do about this game, and you are just disrespectful of people's time and brain content, which is arrogant and will lead you nowhere to become a better player, which would help you a lot. Enough said, I was trapped by the master thing and thought about it being a true discussion, I didn think master scrubs actually exist. Goodbye.
goodbye, use less capslook in the future
|
On February 17 2011 21:27 DjayEl wrote:
Show nested quote +
YES YOU HAVE ! Please be merciful, watch my replay... I think i'm gonna cry :D
Ultra / banes RAAAPE everything Terran has, period. Ofc if you wait the game for 30+ minutes he will ust build 20 PF and you're done, but we are not speaking about late game anymore ! 15-20 minutes IS late game, anything else is VERY late game and nobody should wait until more that 25 minutes to play then, or begin upgrades at 20 mn ! If a game goes in this stage its because players started trading armies way before and because the games keeps going on a even state.
NO pro player never ever did nothing until 25min or maybe for joking, trading begin at 15mn maximum. The game is balanced because of timings, if you throw away all timings with so much game time that every timing become irrelevant, of course the game is not "balanced" but its not the way its supposed to be.
3/3 ultra bane is so powerfuls its insane, and the reason its powerful is you can get them SO FAST if you just open standard muta ling bling, then cut the mutas and expand as soon as you notice turtling. Its transitions so good its just insane, I never loose to any T turtling with that unless they manage to put insane harassement/pressure or try a desperate push before game hits 16 minutes. There is no way to wait more till you are 3/3 and have 5+ bases.
Of course if he builds 50 PFs his army is not 200/200 anymore as he have lot of "static units" that does count for food, but who waits that long ??
As I said, this is NOT COST EFFICIENT: how many banelings to kill just ONE Planetary ? Not even talking about the fact that if you fail attacking, you'll prolly lost to the ultimate "press A button counter". His replay also show how Ultras were useless against Thors, i mean, again, not cost efficient. Terran has the stronger static non-food unit (PF), and the ability to spend extra minerals repairing while being 200/200. So once he's supply blocked, he becomes more and more powerfull; it's the total opposite for Zerg.
ps: you really think that you're a genius using ultra/bane? Yes most of the Zergs know about it, we've all tried that, it's powerful, but that is not the topic.
Please gimme a break...
Who talks about cost efficiency here ???? I'm talking about getting a 3/3 maxed army at 16 that CRUSHES through the terran compo provided by his replay and ending the game right there. The OP himself told us he wants anything at any cost, as he said he has sooo many ressources it didnt event matter. Im not saying ultra bane is invicible, he just say that it is POSSIBLE to make an army that would have raped the compo showed in the replay, thus proving that playing better is actually possible, and showing an expemple of how could this have been done, not even saying it is the best solution.
Did you watch MY replay ? "His replays shows blabla..." all it shows is a WEAK terran army at 20 minutes (92 supply and, YES, 2 PFs) that could have easily be crushed by an army composition build by a non master, crappy, noobish diamond-only Zerg that I am.
So as soon as 2 PFs are build, a Zerg is done, even if a terran as a poor 50 food supply ? Gimme a break man, gimme a fuckin break, watch my rep !!!!
I dont believe im actually arguing about this.... I'm starting go completely crazy !
|
Make 200 zerglings, turn them all into banelings.
I call it, The Green Tide
|
A couple of things that i'm going to point out.
17 min mark - whyd you suicide those mutas against those thor/viking/missileturrets? terrible terrible decision making.
why did you make so many drones? You had 114 drones at one point in the game, that's about 40 larvae that you could have used on units. It's only efficient to have ~70-80 drones at a time. There's a thread about it somewhere in TL. Building a trustfund of 10k wont do you any good, if you had used all of that money at the 20-25 minute mark, you'd have won and not made this topic.
Why did it take you so long to tech up? Hydralisks would have had a kickass time against those thors/vikings. So would brood lords/corruptors.
What was the point of dropping ultras when he has like 20-30 vikings right there? O_O he killed off most of those overlords (37 minute mark) and you also lost the ultras. If you actually wanted to make use of overlord dropping why didn't you baneling bust his workers? I doubt PF can hit air units. There is a crapload of space where the overlords could have snuck in from at the 4-5oclock base (one with a crapload of turrets), and theres only one turret defending the space behind the one on the right of that base. o_o You've scouted all of that too.
The second you went from 200/200 to 124/94 and just continued to make a crapload of ultralisks was when you actually died.
I think you should revisit the basics, watch some day9>newbie-tuesday and stuff.
Oh yeah, just as a point of reference, I'm a bronze league player struggling to get out of it.
O_O
|
On February 17 2011 22:02 [TA]eccentric wrote:
A couple of things that i'm going to point out.
17 min mark - whyd you suicide those mutas against those thor/viking/missileturrets? terrible terrible decision making.
why did you make so many drones? You had 114 drones at one point in the game, that's about 40 larvae that you could have used on units. It's only efficient to have ~70-80 drones at a time. There's a thread about it somewhere in TL. Building a trustfund of 10k wont do you any good, if you had used all of that money at the 20-25 minute mark, you'd have won and not made this topic.
Why did it take you so long to tech up? Hydralisks would have had a kickass time against those thors/vikings. So would brood lords/corruptors.
What was the point of dropping ultras when he has like 20-30 vikings right there? O_O he killed off most of those overlords (37 minute mark) and you also lost the ultras. If you actually wanted to make use of overlord dropping why didn't you baneling bust his workers? I doubt PF can hit air units. There is a crapload of space where the overlords could have snuck in from at the 4-5oclock base (one with a crapload of turrets), and theres only one turret defending the space behind the one on the right of that base. o_o You've scouted all of that too.
The second you went from 200/200 to 124/94 and just continued to make a crapload of ultralisks was when you actually died.
I think you should revisit the basics, watch some day9>newbie-tuesday and stuff.
Oh yeah, just as a point of reference, I'm a bronze league player struggling to get out of it.
O_O
i dont understand why people are so agressive about this whole thing.
1. i suicided those mutalisks. So? what exactly should have i done with them, they did what i needed tehm for, namely harass and deny the vikings, and get terribly ahead. At that point killing 2 thors and a couple if vikings was an OK thing to do even if terribly cost infefficient.
2. i overdroned, and i suicided lots of it very soon, you could notice i was down to below 80 well before the game was over.
4. it took long as i aws massing air to deal with him and get ahead in economy. I used hydralisks not tons of it but i always had around some.
5. i didnt drop them per se i elevated them to the highgroundto avoid some PFs, and he did nto have 30 vikings, what are you talking about, and if you think he had that many and drops were a bad idea why are you saying i should have dropped banes on his workers, which means a longer drop-path.
I watched almost every Day9 episode starting from the first one, the nubey thusdays i find very detrimential actually as awesome as day9 is he gives a lot of bad advices too, and besides that im quit confident my zerg is stronger then his, even if his analytical game understanding is way above mine. I still watch them an try to learn from them, where i can. Some of day9's basic advices:
get more ahead
dont attack when you feel you re in a good position, tech or focus on eco
abuse immobility with drops and nyduses
Sounds familiar? Yeah, good advices, and i was trying to implement them.
You are like the 5th person in here who suggests that i simply suck at this game, very depressing considering the average skill level of these posters.
|
broodlord infestor is a nice way dealing with this on meta, you can take your gold he can't. And since the zerg losses are a bit smaller then the terran losses you will win. (especially since he needs sensor towers against harassment while you simply have creep tumors which are free)
The fight at the gold works nice as the terran can't magic box, or he will get a few vikings fungaled for no infestor kills. if he clumps up on max range he will lose all his vikings for a few infestors, if he uses only a few vikings transfuse will negate the damage. If he adds thors to guard his siege tank advance neural parasite will do the job. The little advantage the terran has in ground range doesn't help him against the broodlords, its a real issue, because the terran defenses are so expensiv that you will end up loosing because he could invest more into pure army.
Its beating the turtle with a better more effectiv turtle hehe. I think nukes would make it able to advance little by little but that are also ressources. These situations happen to rarely so it will take a long time to see who is ahead, right now it seems to be the zerg, but that may be only due to the fact that the terran doesn't go away from his mech+ viking. And the zerg abuses the his strong defense position to regain energy.
At the moment i just wish pdds would stop broodlings, as i only have my nukes/ suicide ghosts and suicide seeker throwing ravens to gain ground xD. And at the end i run out of ressources because my defenses were so expensiv, while is run away and setup a bit behind heh.
I guess the terran has to control an opponents side expansion for some time so at the end the zerg will run out instead of the terran heh.
|
On February 17 2011 22:19 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 22:02 [TA]eccentric wrote:
A couple of things that i'm going to point out.
17 min mark - whyd you suicide those mutas against those thor/viking/missileturrets? terrible terrible decision making.
why did you make so many drones? You had 114 drones at one point in the game, that's about 40 larvae that you could have used on units. It's only efficient to have ~70-80 drones at a time. There's a thread about it somewhere in TL. Building a trustfund of 10k wont do you any good, if you had used all of that money at the 20-25 minute mark, you'd have won and not made this topic.
Why did it take you so long to tech up? Hydralisks would have had a kickass time against those thors/vikings. So would brood lords/corruptors.
What was the point of dropping ultras when he has like 20-30 vikings right there? O_O he killed off most of those overlords (37 minute mark) and you also lost the ultras. If you actually wanted to make use of overlord dropping why didn't you baneling bust his workers? I doubt PF can hit air units. There is a crapload of space where the overlords could have snuck in from at the 4-5oclock base (one with a crapload of turrets), and theres only one turret defending the space behind the one on the right of that base. o_o You've scouted all of that too.
The second you went from 200/200 to 124/94 and just continued to make a crapload of ultralisks was when you actually died.
I think you should revisit the basics, watch some day9>newbie-tuesday and stuff.
Oh yeah, just as a point of reference, I'm a bronze league player struggling to get out of it.
O_O i dont understand why people are so agressive about this whole thing. 1. i suicided those mutalisks. So? what exactly should have i done with them, they did what i needed tehm for, namely harass and deny the vikings, and get terribly ahead. At that point killing 2 thors and a couple if vikings was an OK thing to do even if terribly cost infefficient. 2. i overdroned, and i suicided lots of it very soon, you could notice i was down to below 80 well before the game was over. 4. it took long as i aws massing air to deal with him and get ahead in economy. I used hydralisks not tons of it but i always had around some. 5. i didnt drop them per se i elevated them to the highgroundto avoid some PFs, and he did nto have 30 vikings, what are you talking about, and if you think he had that many and drops were a bad idea why are you saying i should have dropped banes on his workers, which means a longer drop-path. I watched almost every Day9 episode starting from the first one, the nubey thusdays i find very detrimential actually as awesome as day9 is he gives a lot of bad advices too, and besides that im quit confident my zerg is stronger then his, even if his analytical game understanding is way above mine. I still watch them an try to learn from them, where i can. Some of day9's basic advices: get more ahead dont attack when you feel you re in a good position, tech or focus on eco abuse immobility with drops and nyduses Sounds familiar? Yeah, good advices, and i was trying to implement them. You are like the 5th person in here who suggests that i simply suck at this game, very depressing considering the average skill level of these posters.
1) At the time you suicided those mutas, you could have gone back into his main and picked off some depots, done some more micro to kill SCVs, etc. You shouldnt just kill your units because they've done their job. If you're 7rring, will you just suicide your roaches after killing a few workers and making sure he/she's made a crapload of static defence? If you're speedling expanding will you just let your speedlings die if you scout banshee/viking play and have to adjust your tech accordingly? durr no.
2) See theres two mistakes in that, and both of them could be solved by fixing the initial one - dont overdrone. Even i've already reached a point where I know whether to drone or build units.
3) you dont have a 3 >_>
4) Having hydras to deal with thors and having hydras to pick off random vikings that wander into your base to scout are completely different things. If you had made more creep tumours (which would have been very easy to do seeing as all 6 of your queens had near max energy at all times - if not max), the hydras would have been even more effective, bait a thor, kill it. Bait another one, kill it. etc.
4.5) you say that you dont like to all-in yet you're massing air units? why? to suicide them? oh wait...
5) 30 = exaggeration. Yeah, ok I get that. but you ran them through a path where he had his army posistioned. -_- Running them through an army and winding them through the back are completely different things.
Oh yeah, another advice day9 gives is "if your opponent is dicking around, just go fucking kill him".
I'm not suggesting that you suck at this game, but there are many things you need to work on.
Maybe you're slumping. Maybe you're just having a bad day. OR, maybe you suck at your division.
|
On February 17 2011 22:33 [TA]eccentric wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 22:19 Geo.Rion wrote:On February 17 2011 22:02 [TA]eccentric wrote:
A couple of things that i'm going to point out.
17 min mark - whyd you suicide those mutas against those thor/viking/missileturrets? terrible terrible decision making.
why did you make so many drones? You had 114 drones at one point in the game, that's about 40 larvae that you could have used on units. It's only efficient to have ~70-80 drones at a time. There's a thread about it somewhere in TL. Building a trustfund of 10k wont do you any good, if you had used all of that money at the 20-25 minute mark, you'd have won and not made this topic.
Why did it take you so long to tech up? Hydralisks would have had a kickass time against those thors/vikings. So would brood lords/corruptors.
What was the point of dropping ultras when he has like 20-30 vikings right there? O_O he killed off most of those overlords (37 minute mark) and you also lost the ultras. If you actually wanted to make use of overlord dropping why didn't you baneling bust his workers? I doubt PF can hit air units. There is a crapload of space where the overlords could have snuck in from at the 4-5oclock base (one with a crapload of turrets), and theres only one turret defending the space behind the one on the right of that base. o_o You've scouted all of that too.
The second you went from 200/200 to 124/94 and just continued to make a crapload of ultralisks was when you actually died.
I think you should revisit the basics, watch some day9>newbie-tuesday and stuff.
Oh yeah, just as a point of reference, I'm a bronze league player struggling to get out of it.
O_O i dont understand why people are so agressive about this whole thing. 1. i suicided those mutalisks. So? what exactly should have i done with them, they did what i needed tehm for, namely harass and deny the vikings, and get terribly ahead. At that point killing 2 thors and a couple if vikings was an OK thing to do even if terribly cost infefficient. 2. i overdroned, and i suicided lots of it very soon, you could notice i was down to below 80 well before the game was over. 4. it took long as i aws massing air to deal with him and get ahead in economy. I used hydralisks not tons of it but i always had around some. 5. i didnt drop them per se i elevated them to the highgroundto avoid some PFs, and he did nto have 30 vikings, what are you talking about, and if you think he had that many and drops were a bad idea why are you saying i should have dropped banes on his workers, which means a longer drop-path. I watched almost every Day9 episode starting from the first one, the nubey thusdays i find very detrimential actually as awesome as day9 is he gives a lot of bad advices too, and besides that im quit confident my zerg is stronger then his, even if his analytical game understanding is way above mine. I still watch them an try to learn from them, where i can. Some of day9's basic advices: get more ahead dont attack when you feel you re in a good position, tech or focus on eco abuse immobility with drops and nyduses Sounds familiar? Yeah, good advices, and i was trying to implement them. You are like the 5th person in here who suggests that i simply suck at this game, very depressing considering the average skill level of these posters. 1) At the time you suicided those mutas, you could have gone back into his main and picked off some depots, done some more micro to kill SCVs, etc. You shouldnt just kill your units because they've done their job. If you're 7rring, will you just suicide your roaches after killing a few workers and making sure he/she's made a crapload of static defence? If you're speedling expanding will you just let your speedlings die if you scout banshee/viking play and have to adjust your tech accordingly? durr no. 2) See theres two mistakes in that, and both of them could be solved by fixing the initial one - dont overdrone. Even i've already reached a point where I know whether to drone or build units. 3) you dont have a 3 >_> 4) Having hydras to deal with thors and having hydras to pick off random vikings that wander into your base to scout are completely different things. If you had made more creep tumours (which would have been very easy to do seeing as all 6 of your queens had near max energy at all times - if not max), the hydras would have been even more effective, bait a thor, kill it. Bait another one, kill it. etc. 4.5) you say that you dont like to all-in yet you're massing air units? why? to suicide them? oh wait... 5) 30 = exaggeration. Yeah, ok I get that. but you ran them through a path where he had his army posistioned. -_- Running them through an army and winding them through the back are completely different things. Oh yeah, another advice day9 gives is "if your opponent is dicking around, just go fucking kill him". I'm not suggesting that you suck at this game, but there are many things you need to work on. Maybe you're slumping. Maybe you're just having a bad day. OR, maybe you suck at your division.
ok, you make no sense. Ive told you why i made mutas. I had creep spread till the place he had PFs, it's hard to spread more then that. I had energy on queens, at times i was maxed on larvae / hatcehrys, so your point?
I clearly have a lot of things to work on, but even more clearly you have to work on analyzing what you see as it's straight up nonsense what you are writing in some of your paragraphs.
I dont want to say anything bad for you being in bronze, but maybe you should be less convinced on your opinions.
|
Well I watched your rep.
First if you notice, when he added 2 starports and started pumping vikings he had pretty much no ground army at all. You could just come with speed roaches and/or speedling and killed him. That's of course is easier to say than to do, but next time you could consider this option.
What about late game I think you made everything right, maybe your attacks could have been more succesful if you attacked with speedlings and ultras at the same time, because just ultras running into mass thors aren't very effective, +thors overkill on lings.
Overall I think you should make more cracklings.
|
day9 is he gives a lot of bad advices too, and besides that im quit confident my zerg is stronger then his
You are unbelieviablely aggrogant and bad.
You can't be Master, you are trolling us all, or maybe the ladder system has't ajusted your MMR yet, or maybe you just suck at ZvT for a crazy reason or are the luckiest gamer ever, but truth is you just suck at this game. Usually I'd never say that to a Master guy and think first about me being wrong, as I usually do, but you being bad is now plain evidence.
You played an awful game. Your macro sucks. Yes, it sucks : macro is not gathering money. It's all about using it at the right times.
You are all trapping us into believing that as soon as a T as 2 PF, no matter his army is weak and unupgraded at 20 min, there is nothing possible to do.
Any mediocre Zerg is able to build an army that defeats your T opp in 20 min. Ultra bane is an exemple, but full 200/200 3/3 mutas magix boxing would have done exactly the same, as well as constant waves of 200/200 3/3 cracklings, roaches... litterally anything in Zerg arsenal apart from Drone and Overlord. And everything is achievable in 20 minutes. You know it, I know it, and every Gold Zerg out there knows it.
If you reach 20 minutes in game and are not able to set up an army crushing for good 92 Terran food (wich more that half were SCVs, so basically we are speaking of 40 food of units, and 2 PFs, that means your macro is horrible, period. You are just incredibly bad. You deserve to loose. You can be desperate about that, because that would be the same for me if I was in such a situation after playing the game for two weeks.
I just rewatched the rep : apart from minor harassment and little muta gimmicks almost no real engagement happened at all, and our Master Terran players mmanage to build up, at 20 minutes in game :
- 91 pop
- 45 of which consists of SCVs
- 2 Hellions
- 3 Vikings
- 3 Thors
- 4 Tanks
Yes, ladies and gentlemen. That's all he got at 20 mintutes. And two PF's. A macro mad man, for sure !
Here is a new game : first prize to anyone able to macro up some a-moving dumb one-dimensonnal zerg force that can crush this during a 20 minutes unpressured game.
Oh yes, and with unlimited cash sustain, of course, and several hatcheries. Just in case you dont win with the first attack.
But I'm not sure any of you guys that are not in Masters were able to display such macro skills, so be warned.
|
On February 17 2011 22:47 DjayEl wrote:Show nested quote +day9 is he gives a lot of bad advices too, and besides that im quit confident my zerg is stronger then his You are unbelieviablely aggrogant and bad. You can't be Master, you are trolling us all, or maybe the ladder system has't ajusted your MMR yet, or maybe you just suck at ZvT for a crazy reason or are the luckiest gamer ever, but truth is you just suck at this game. Usually I'd never say that to a Master guy and think first about me being wrong, as I usually do, but you being bad is now plain evidence. You played an awful game. Your macro sucks. Yes, it sucks : macro is not gathering money. It's all about using it at the right times. You are all trapping us into believing that as soon as a T as 2 PF, no matter his army is weak and unupgraded at 20 min, there is nothing possible to do. Any mediocre Zerg is able to build an army that defeats your T opp in 20 min. Ultra bane is an exemple, but full 200/200 3/3 mutas magix boxing would have done exactly the same, as well as constant waves of 200/200 3/3 cracklings, roaches... litterally anything in Zerg arsenal apart from Drone and Overlord. And everything is achievable in 20 minutes. You know it, I know it, and every Gold Zerg out there knows it. If you reach 20 minutes in game and are not able to set up an army crushing for good 92 Terran food (wich more that half were SCVs, so basically we are speaking of 40 food of units, and 2 PFs, that means your macro is horrible, period. You are just incredibly bad. You deserve to loose. You can be desperate about that, because that would be the same for me if I was in such a situation after playing the game for two weeks. I just rewatched the rep : apart from minor harassment and little muta gimmicks almost no real engagement happened at all, and our Master Terran players mmanage to build up, at 20 minutes in game : - 91 pop - 45 of which consists of SCVs - 2 Hellions - 3 Vikings - 3 Thors - 4 Tanks Yes, ladies and gentlemen. That's all he got at 20 mintutes. And two PF's. A macro mad man, for sure ! Here is a new game : first prize to anyone able to macro up some a-moving dumb one-dimensonnal zerg force that can crush this during a 20 minutes unpressured game. Oh yes, and with unlimited cash sustain, of course, and several hatcheries. Just in case you dont win with the first attack. But I'm not sure any of you guys that are not in Masters were able to display such macro skills, so be warned.
didnt you say you're out of here? Like twice?
|
Well I don't know if I can give you advice since you're higher ranked than me, but I think you should get maxed as soon as possible and just kill him before he's able to turtle up completely.
Just ask your teammate to play that style and try to get a super early third, saturate it and go for something like ultralisk baneling roach and don't let him get his third, make sure you have some anti air to deal with drops and stuff.
I mean if a terran is passive you should have enough units to stop him from taking a third.
Try to starve him.
|
On February 17 2011 22:47 DjayEl wrote:Show nested quote +day9 is he gives a lot of bad advices too, and besides that im quit confident my zerg is stronger then his You are unbelieviablely aggrogant and bad. You can't be Master, you are trolling us all
Normally I wouldn't say this, but ... you are an idiot. It's clear from the replay that he is in fact a very good player. Anyone who have watched a few good replays and understand the game should see that quite easily.
|
The most logical answer is to not invest too much in all that tech like brood lords, etc. Obviously, Brood Lords move RIDONCULOUSLY slow. That way, he doesn't really need as fast a reaction time in order to deal with the broodlords. Indeed, in this situation I've commonly been abusing Nydus worms and drops simply because you can be in two places at once. With Nydus, you can easily commit your ENTIRE army and still be able to pull out when the need arises. To be honest, I believe that mobility would be the answer to the problem you seem to be having. I personally hate greater spire tech because of how undeniably slow Brood Lords are. I'm a much bigger fan of Ultralisks because at least you can drop those. Basically, whenever I encounter lategame situations as Zerg, I try to be all over the place at the same time to at least keep him honest. The best part, if you ask me, about the Nydus worm is if your Terran opponent figures he can just all-in you, you can sense that and go back into the Nydus worm and reemerge at your base in the speed of light.
|
Ok lets sum it up the main point that you dont seem to be getting.
Yes having loads of PF and Thors and tanks late game where your running low on reasorces and he still has 2 bases means that you are eventually gonna lose.
you didnt capitalise on your advantage and you let him back into the game, if you didnt do this you would've won simple as.
Its not imbalanced cause you had plenty of time to win, but you didnt you let him get everything he wanted you didnt punish him for not having enough units and by the time you tried he had enough to defend.
|
edit: dont feel like BMing anyone today
|
@Geo.Rion
I just want to point out that if as zerg you took 4 bases and made 80 drones before making any units and then started massing units and attacked when maxed and your opponent (any race) played standard making army and eco but never attacked you. There is absolutely no way they could hold off your maxed army as you only made 80 drones for 12minutes.
Would you say that this makes late game Zerg imba or would you say theyd be stupid for not killing you when you make 80 drones before any units.........
|
I'm around 2900 masters terran and yes there is a way to break the passive terran.
So at this point in the game when the terran was going for the 5th and 6th base you were maxed with 100 supply of drones and 31 banelings. he was also 3/2 on upgrades so his mech army is very very cost effective vs your roach/bane army. I think that you dont need to deny his bases more than trade your army to kill his mech. You can remax much faster than him remaking mech back to the death ball. So my solution would be to kill his mech and do the 300 food push with roaches because the reinforcements will be too much for him to handle because mech takes so long to build. But you need to do this before pfs go up in allies or not let him put them up.
Actually Id just watch my own replay and see what I could have done better at each point in the game...and see where I lost
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
