EPTEarly double gas also forces many to respond with robo because of dt tech suspicion in the current metagame. Great advantage because stargate is infinitely effective against robo tech.
[G] 2 gateway 1 stargate PvP Phoenix build - Page 5
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XVII
1 Post
Early double gas also forces many to respond with robo because of dt tech suspicion in the current metagame. Great advantage because stargate is infinitely effective against robo tech. | ||
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
If your edge in your matchup is your macro and strategic/tactical decisionmaking as opposed to your micro then don't use this build. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
On October 05 2011 17:29 Selendis wrote: it's a good build, but after trying it a few times and failing at it miserably I can tell you it is not for protoss's with bad micro. If your edge in your matchup is your macro and strategic/tactical decisionmaking as opposed to your micro then don't use this build. Its not so much for people with good micro but for people with good multitasking. Controlling phoenixes is extremely demanding...when you are actually doing stuff with them, there is literally no point at which you can move away from them to macro. To keep them safe you have to keep a close eye on them to be wary of anti-air, to keep them dangerous you have to keep them moving and to actually do anything offensively with them you need to be actively lifting units to kill them. This means that you cannot simply sit them over a base to attack, even if its undefended. For this reason, you need both very good multitasking, and also very good mouse precision. You need to be able to switch to the phoenixes, quickly lift several units to kill them (which means you need to be able to click quickly and accurately), and then switch back to your base to do a couple macro things, which again requires quick and precise mouse control. | ||
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Betschi
6 Posts
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julius33
Estonia79 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:24 Betschi wrote: I have much problems with that build. After my phoenixes killed some probes, my opposite attacks me. I have 3 gates and researched charge. But most time i loose. What do i make wrong? After 5 phoenixes i stop producing them. Thx 4 Help Why are you getting charge? Getting 2 immortals for that gas will be much more useful. Zealot/sentry/immortal should hold very well and if you help with phoenixes lifting sentries and stalkers then you should have no trouble defending... | ||
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Betschi
6 Posts
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Betschi
6 Posts
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theredone
United States49 Posts
PvP is really becoming a rock paper scissors at my level at least. Stargate tops Robo which tops gateway which tops Stargate. It's kinda great really | ||
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Betschi
6 Posts
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xlava
United States676 Posts
It holds 4gate, as you have the potential to produce enough sentries to hold it, and even get out robo tech fast enough to produce the anti-4gate immortal. It wrecks colossi and immortal pushes, as well as gaining you terrific harass opportunity. Against blink stalkers its still very powerful, as you can force retreats through harass, and defend with zealots. Plus, the phoenixes force stalkers, and the transition out of PvP stargate builds is chargelots. Perfect setup, if you can execute it properly and harass enough. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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Tatari
United States1179 Posts
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Petninja
United States159 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:54 galzohar wrote: If this can't stop a 4gate, can this still be used effectively upon scouting non-4gate builds? This can hold a 4 gate. the problem it had when the build was created was that it required 2 FF's to hold the ramp to prevent warp-ins. You can FF the ramp forever with this build now though. The only way they could get up the ramp would be to build a stargate, or a robo, or research hallucinate and get a sentry so they can see up it. All of these take a while, and your phoenix comes out before 7 minutes, which means you can scout this and react accordingly. Even if they do get sight up the ramp it will be so late that you can hold it with the army you've built, and most people will give up the 4 gate once they see the endless FFs. Once that happens it's time to start your harass. | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
I use this build on ranked games when my opponent goes 3stalker rush or takes a second gas earlier then normal and I suspect immortal or fast tech colossus play, or if I scout heavy zealot / immortal composition. As for the builds biggest weakness... mass zealots. Usually my opponent scouts with the observer and notices I have 5-6 pheonix and immediately they say 'oh no i need anti air!! i gotta get those stalkers producing'. When that happens I hit a timing attack and 90% of the time win right there. If they build zealots (more cost effective, cheaper, absorb more pheonix fire) There comes a point where my pheonix will run out of energy and I will get simply overran. Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?hrucgq2exoqqawu | ||
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Petninja
United States159 Posts
On October 09 2011 01:00 DanceSC wrote: As for the builds biggest weakness... mass zealots. Usually my opponent scouts with the observer and notices I have 5-6 pheonix and immediately they say 'oh no i need anti air!! i gotta get those stalkers producing'. When that happens I hit a timing attack and 90% of the time win right there. If they build zealots (more cost effective, cheaper, absorb more pheonix fire) There comes a point where my pheonix will run out of energy and I will get simply overran. Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?hrucgq2exoqqawu If he's massing zealots why aren't you just sniping the zealots? If that's all he's making it's much better than trying to snipe his economy because he has nothing to prevent you from expanding all you want. It would appear to me that a heavy zealot army is exactly what you're hoping for. | ||
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Petninja
United States159 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:39 julius33 wrote: Why are you getting charge? Getting 2 immortals for that gas will be much more useful. Zealot/sentry/immortal should hold very well and if you help with phoenixes lifting sentries and stalkers then you should have no trouble defending... If he's doing this build he probably has a lot of zealots in his mix, so it makes sense to get the upgrade that benefits them the most. From what I've experienced only having 5 phoenix leaves you pretty dry for available lifts. I feel that phoenix get stronger in larger numbers much like mutalisks. Basically, the chances that a phoenix has energy when X attack arrives is better the more phoenix you get. If you have 5 phoenix and none of them have energy you have a lot of dead weight. If you have 10 phoenix there is a much higher chance that a couple of them will have enough energy for lifts by the time they get to the battle. The obvious side effect being that you have to be even more diligent with your harass when you have so much tied up in your air. | ||
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Tribe__
Finland10 Posts
I`ve started getting a robotics after stargate, because 80% of the time my opponents have been going heavy stalkers upon seeing the phoenixes, so pumping immortals has been very effective. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:24 Betschi wrote: I have much problems with that build. After my phoenixes killed some probes, my opposite attacks me. I have 3 gates and researched charge. But most time i loose. What do i make wrong? After 5 phoenixes i stop producing them. Thx 4 Help Could we see a replay? What does your opponent attack with? If it's any sort of Stalker / Robo tech, you should shut it down so that it isn't even close. If it's blink, with somewhat clever engagements you can do the same if you have Charge. Are you using Phoenixes in battle? Are you expanding? Is he expanding? I'm really interested in the replay, seeing that what you do is pretty much what I do in PvP most of the time nowadays, and it works fine for me. Cutting Phoenix production at 5 might be your problem actually (barring any macro/control problems). I know it can feel scary to build a lot of them, but a lot of people underestimate how good they are in battle vs a ground army in a decent number. When you only have 5, and you're using energy to kill Probes on top of that, there really isn't much they can do for you in battles and can feel kinda wasteful. On October 08 2011 10:20 Tatari wrote: I've played against this, and since I go DTs if I scout 2 gas, the people who tried this on me just rolled over and died one way or another. It's really weak against templar tech play. What is your DT timing? | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:24 Betschi wrote: I have much problems with that build. After my phoenixes killed some probes, my opposite attacks me. I have 3 gates and researched charge. But most time i loose. What do i make wrong? After 5 phoenixes i stop producing them. Thx 4 Help First off don't stop at 5 phoenix. 5 is a horrible number because realistically in a fight you can pick up one or 2 units. I would personally stop at around 8. You may be trying to tech too hard though. In a fight you would want to pick up stuff in the order GS sentries>immortals>zealots>stalkers>sentries. As you are going phoenix, you want to end up with a zealot advantage on the ground. With a small fleet of phoenix you can take small groups of units out of the fight and kill them extremely quickly. With only 5 you'll take 1-2 units out, and you won't kill them particularly quickly either. Phoenix are kind of a snowball unit in that way. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
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