A build I've been using a lot lately against zerg is a Marine,Maruader,Hellion build getting a reactor on the fact and 1 tech lab on 1rax and nothing on the other. Really strong push and allows you to transition easily once you expand.

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

February 08 2011 00:22 GMT

#43

Starshaped -- that was an epiclly dirty harass lol. Those 4 vikings man, something about how rediculously easy they are to micro + snipe OLs and dominate drones. They need 4 queens, at least in my mind, to stop the viking harass.

You could've dropped the fac with a reactor, took an scv off both gas so only 2 in it, and take the rocks out in the center and have 2-4 more hellions.

But, you're way outta my league, so fucking nice harass lol. I can only imagine how frustrating it is. Most zergs are SO stuck to muta on that map, that they don't know what to do when you take that away or delay it so long. That mass is just too strong of a DPS to deal with with slings and queens ya know?

Nice rep dude.

Praxis1452

41 Posts

February 08 2011 04:12 GMT

#44

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/136432-1v1-terran-zerg-lost-temple#rd:buildorder

I experimented a bit that game with cutting hellions out all together and simply going for the fastest vikings. I also tried bunker rushing, but I think that throws my timing off by a bit too much, especially because most decent zergs won't let that bunker complete like it did that game. Killed 1 drone and 6 lings because he threw them at me.

I think I would have won playing normal due to the close spawns anyway, but I actually feel like this is more effective compared to other aggressive techniques on far positions due to them spreading overlords out and your ability to just pick them off.

Opening reactor hellion rarely allows me to kill that many drones against most zergs, but that's just me. idk, seems like spines and queens at the ramp as well as speedlings end that too quickly.

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

February 08 2011 06:09 GMT

#45

The thing is, hellions force roaches, spines, slings, or queens or a bit of all. You can ALWAYS scoot hellions around and take towers, take map control. Slings come out, roast em. I just played a game on blistering vs a fast teching zerg who went pool first -> hatch

Hellions roast about 20 lings, no drones. Vikings killed 2 OLs I think, max. By the time he chased me away, I had 2 tanks, 15 marines, 3 vikings, 1 medic, 10 scvs at his door, 12 minute game, with 3rd tank almost there, 4th out at my base, with 4 more marines and 2 more vikings and expo landed and with 7-10 scvs and a mule at both bases..

Like, seriously. 12 minutes. Still ONLY on 1-1-1 and pushing strong, strong, strong.

It's all about map control and disguising your push as long as possible.

---edit

Probably the last replay because I doubt anyone cares, really. But here it is, 1-1 CC in base, into 1-1-1 reactor hellion -> viking -> marine tank scv medic viking push at 10 min

Shows the general BO, I guess, for the economic CC in base and still not missing a beat on harass timings.

shadymmj

1906 Posts

February 08 2011 06:30 GMT

#46

This is yet another solid and effective opener against a 14 hatch. I think this can take you into master level TvZ easily if you practice executing it a few times...against players that like to leave their OLs hanging around holes, cliffs, back of the base etc. it can easily supply block them for a good while so when the push hits they are almost guaranteed to lose their nat. No high diamond zerg I've played actually anticipated vikings, so more power to me.

Also easily tuned to suit my preferences (earlier stim, less vikings, later CC?). Thanks for the tips.

darkzuka

Peru88 Posts

February 08 2011 08:23 GMT

#47

this also can work to pool/hatchery??

Praxis1452

41 Posts

February 08 2011 08:56 GMT

#48

The thing about vikings to me is not only that they tank baneling hits well, but how versatile they are.

4x viking drop on the ground is like an 8x marine drop.

viking (ground)
12 dmg
1 speed

Marine
6 dmg
.86 speed

The viking is barely slower. The best part though is that vikings are mech and so they can be repaired. Since you're already sniping ovies, the number of vikings you get just keeps growing all the while delaying their mutas.

ex. so instead of just trying to actively hunt overlords, you kill the first couple that you see, land in his base kill his queen. If the lings come and you've already killed the queen you can kill a bunch of lings too. Lift up once they get a few good hits in and snipe the ovies that will probably come out of his hatch from you sniping the first 2-3.

Also, I generally try to kill as many ovies as possible, then land, repair, and push. I usually get like 3-5. I just micro my viking taking queen hits away from her while constantly shooting the ovies that they produce.

Zoia

United States419 Posts

February 08 2011 09:46 GMT

#49

I try going marauder/hellion with a reactor on the factory while getting a few marines in the mix. Can do a lot of early pressure against zerg and it is easy to expand and transition out of.

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

February 08 2011 16:31 GMT

#50

On February 08 2011 17:23 darkzuka wrote:
this also can work to pool/hatchery??

Yes. Infact, most of my games are against pool before hatch. It just means be more careful with your hellions and don't blindly lose them all as they have speed earlier.

Marauder/hellion is a very, very effective open if the zerg pools first, btw. I believe it's a 1-1 tech swap into 2-1 reactor on fac, 2 tech lab for marauders. I'd always suggest a small SCV pull as it keeps hellions alive a LOT longer.

ex. so instead of just trying to actively hunt overlords, you kill the first couple that you see, land in his base kill his queen. If the lings come and you've already killed the queen you can kill a bunch of lings too. Lift up once they get a few good hits in and snipe the ovies that will probably come out of his hatch from you sniping the first 2-3.

That's exactly what I do. First two go seperate ways to hunt OLs, once the next two pop out I go to find harder OLs and 4 bang em up. At most, a queen will get you down to half life on 1-2 vikings. Go to expo, or main, drop and walk and shit on the queen if possible. If he runs it, pop 4-5 drones lift and run before he comes back.

The 7 range on vikings on the ground is SO dirty. With a hellion marine scv wall, and tanks blasting from the back the DPS is so outrageously high. They have to land 4-5 solid banelings on an improperly controlled ball to deal enough damage to be ahead.

That's the key though, once two vikings pop, and say you get lucky and pop 2 separate OLs, the rest are pulled back, another queen is started, an evo chamber is started. They forgo map control, all you have to do is take the towers with your hellions.

RukKus

United States197 Posts

February 08 2011 20:52 GMT

#51

I have been having great success with this build. There are some things I am having trouble with, perhaps you could shed some light.

I've been having equal success vs 1 base (late expo) Z, and FE Z. However, the early speedling into muta builds have given this some trouble. One game I pushed out, and the Z had 8 Muta popping when I reached his base. It took my 12 marines and 4 vikings to take them and the lings out. I was left with 2 tanks vs 2 Queens. The queens transfused (!) each other and dominated the tanks! How do you deal with Mass Muta? Vikings+hellion+tank are all ground... and I had to lift the Vikings to engage the Muta.

I could have still won, as I did burn through his Nat expo and half his drones before losing my push... but here's the second problem: I did not lay an expo before I pushed out, and my attention was focused on microing the push. After he defended, I couldn't recover fast enough before 12 Muta flew in and picked off marines/viking as they spawned. The issue is not my lack of macro but rather my familiarity with this build. I still need to play it. OK, so my official question is: Does this build leave room for laying down a CC before the ~10:00 push? If I had layed down a CC and more production buildings I would have had enough troops to defend and then do a second timing push. It was a VERY close game vs a 2800 Z!

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

February 08 2011 23:29 GMT

#52

You should be hitting BEFORE mutas pop. With early slings, you just have to be careful and work on hellion micro to dominate the early game. Then, with viking harass you should be able to delay the mutas from popping long enough thru drone kills and OL kills to make the push hit RIGHT when no more than 5 mutas pop.