EPTI'm wondering if anyone has an opener vs zerg which you can seige expand while incorporating some harassment. This is obviously done when zerg gets their natural. Its tough to get that balance of getting your natural up quickly while taking advantage of harassment techniques. I've been having some trouble vs zerg with my mech play. I've made it my goal to try and get a 3rd set up, but it seems at that point they usually overwhelm me with muta harass. I'm 2500 diamond.
[H] TvZ Seige Expand
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zhengsta
United States126 Posts
I'm wondering if anyone has an opener vs zerg which you can seige expand while incorporating some harassment. This is obviously done when zerg gets their natural. Its tough to get that balance of getting your natural up quickly while taking advantage of harassment techniques. I've been having some trouble vs zerg with my mech play. I've made it my goal to try and get a 3rd set up, but it seems at that point they usually overwhelm me with muta harass. I'm 2500 diamond. | ||
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DryIce
New Zealand30 Posts
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UKISS
United States29 Posts
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ForTheDream
Germany1780 Posts
you can look for it at www.sc2rep.com (search SeleCt) , he used that build against Moonglade and MoMaN at FXOpen and in G4SC2-Finals. The reaper is for some harassment but mainly for getting scouting and some mapcontrol, you gotta have that badguy survive as long as possible to slow down creepspread or force 1 or 2 zergling pairs more. Hope you can make use of that Opening  | ||
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ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
I reactor factory hellion harass, swap to reactor port for viking harass, drop vikings and eat up a queen to fuck up an inject cycle + score free drone/OL kills. I'll post a few random reps, some have the FE, some don't. It's a very transitionable push, as you can decide for blueflame hellions and no tanks, or a triple reactor rush, or a double reactor 1 tech lab tank marine hellion viking medic push. Circa 2700 master It's rapes on scrap, like rapes. Effective on any open natural map, or against any zerg that doesn't switch to heavy roach play immediately. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186233.jpg) vs 2500 master Z ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-184471.jpg) vs now 2500 master Z a game to show a transition ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186230.jpg) vs2500 master Z on xelnaga horribly handled. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186232.jpg) vs 2800 master Z on xelnaga ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186229.jpg) vs stupid 2500 master Z who goes fast infestor with no units? lol ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186231.jpg) vs 2800 master Z on scrap he leaves once push hits due to army size ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186228.jpg) vs 2600 master Z No clue what he was trying as the harass fucked him three ways til sunday. 10 min push hits 80 food vs 35. If harass goes well, it's pretty much a solid 1-1-1 with an expo, and 2 reactor to swap onto rax's. I've hammered out a build order now where I 3 marine -> reactor so I can start 2nd CC in base, swap fac, make the same hellions and starport and not miss a beat on any harass timing. Infact, it's so much stronger now | ||
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NormandyBoy
France200 Posts
I give back the techlab to the factory when the banshee is over and start immediatly a tank and siege mode, this way it is done when my OC lands. The banshee allows you to gain map control, to prevent baneling from morphing next to your expo and to kill some drones. | ||
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Wulf_Ector
Canada37 Posts
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RukKus
United States197 Posts
Like above poster, I am practicing that right now. I feel this opener is along the same feel as Pookie's hellion, banshee, thor, marine opener. However, this opener pushes with more punch (Vikings hurt BAD!) 2 minutes sooner. In addition to that, it supply/vision blocks the Zerg so he cannot see it coming, which is even more devastating. Usually the Zerg relies on vision to prepare for pushes. I am very, very intrigued by this build and feel it is solid in its handling. DO you have a thread about this build? | ||
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Deleted User 109835
629 Posts
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QQmonster
Canada240 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:09 drewbie.root wrote: sorry but siege tanks and harass don't really mix, i would suggest opening 1 rax cc before gas and pressuring a bit with marines, maybe trying to get a bunker up then fall back to a bunker at your nat and taking double gas after you start your cc and going blue flame hellions into tank/thor. it's really safe agaisnt everything, the only thing that is a bit annoying is if the z drops a roach warren as soon as their pool finishes and makes like 4-5 roach just to harass you, you will have a bunker up but on some maps they can just go around it and harass. if you see them going roach then just make 1 tank and it will nullify them, roaches are pretty bad so even if you are slowed a tiny bit you shouldn't be behind the zerg at all =] what are you retarded? the tanks enable you to do harrassment because they make your natural unbreakable while you spend your money harrassing instead of defending. You can also do siege tank drops which on some maps rape face (lost temple, delta quadrant and shakuras pleateau come to mind) User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
It's the harassment + map control the vikings give you that let's the push be so damn deadly. | ||
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RukKus
United States197 Posts
On February 06 2011 13:38 iAmJeffReY wrote: Glad you guys like it. It's a solid variation I worked up off watching a game of ReqPhilibird like 2 months ago, he did triple reactor and I worked out some tanks into it. It's the harassment + map control the vikings give you that let's the push be so damn deadly. I tried this build on ladder 2 times and against my high diamond friend. He was raging hard. Won all three games. Question: Why is it that Zerg has so few units before 10 minutes? Terran and Protoss make units linearly whereas Zerg seems to hoard drones and resources til the last possible moment. The army chart all 3 games, the Zerg had very very very few units when I waltzed in (he wasnt able to see it coming because of lack of vision). Major QQ by Zerg. Is this the 4 gate version of TvZ? It sure seems like it. Also, would this build still work if a Zerg knew it was coming? EDIT: I must mention, All 3 games I didn't realize that you can fit Siege Mode into the build. I walked in with 2-3 unsieged tanks. Which is still devestating, but I can see how sieged tanks would offer more protection against the inevitable speedling/bling. I love this build because IF zerg has muta, there are only 2-3!!! | ||
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Wulf_Ector
Canada37 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
It's just so damn effective. Of course, you still have to scan and scout and know what's up. If they blinding roach bling, stay back and viking harass until you get 3-4 tanks and then go. Etc | ||
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ChuckJagoda
United States27 Posts
On February 06 2011 13:21 QQmonster wrote: what are you retarded? the tanks enable you to do harrassment because they make your natural unbreakable while you spend your money harrassing instead of defending. You can also do siege tank drops which on some maps rape face (lost temple, delta quadrant and shakuras pleateau come to mind) Yeah you probably know better than ROOT.Drewbie, it's not like he's a progamer or anything; his opinion is essentially invalidated because it doesnt match yours. Posts like this is why there are so few pro posts in this section of the forum | ||
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zhengsta
United States126 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
I saw your build and just in time, too! I had to go up against EmpireHobo in Zotac round 3, on Scrap Station. He's a 3,5k Zerg and I can never win on that map, let alone win TvZ, so I decided what the heck, I'll try your build. Here's the result: http://replayfu.com/r/3VXH2g Thanks for the awesome build, bro. I modified it a bit to make it more of an all-in, but really I had such a huge advantage it didn't really matter what I did beyond the initial harass. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Starshaped, you're the man. Doesn't that shit dominate on scrap? They are clueless when you pop out those vikings to murder some OLs. How awesome lol. Thanks for anyone who liked the open! | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
If you can't inflict damage, you're dead just like with every other build. PS: Are these newer than the ones you sent me? | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
And true it isn't all in at all. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
You actually float ~200 minerals before you actually start to getting units and then ~50 when you are actually getting units so trying for gas before rax might be a good idea. In addition, if you could figure out a way to speed up your push 1 minute to 30 seconds earlier, you can probably hit when zerg has recovered from losing ovies but before mutas are out. | ||
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Runair
United States49 Posts
On February 06 2011 15:32 ChuckJagoda wrote: Cant wait to try that build out tomorrow ^^ Yeah you probably know better than ROOT.Drewbie, it's not like he's a progamer or anything; his opinion is essentially invalidated because it doesnt match yours. Posts like this is why there are so few pro posts in this section of the forum Pro players can make wrong decisions all the time, they always talk about how they know so little about the game since it's so new and there's so many strats that have been unexplored. Why don't you try to explain or test why you can't siege expand and harass? Instead of blindly following good players. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
The more I run it, the more I hammer out the build. As ASM said -- it's not at ALL an all in. If you want, it can be. Forgo tanks and get a reactor fac reactor port reactor rax and push with all scvs hellion viking marine and win with that push. However, as I run it, it's a very, very strong 1 base push that gains map control so they can't see it coming until it's a bit late. Hellions keep slings near their base, vikings keep OLs near queens, and if they do scout your ramp they see the reactor port and rax -- but they're already eating 4 vikings so they KNOW reactor port. The thing is, if I see hatch before pool, I know my 4 hellions are going to cause damage enough until speed comes that the short 30 seconds inbetween hellion harass and viking harass leaves the zerg no chance to recover. A lower master zerg friend of mine, whos faced this 6 times now and not beaten it once says it's the scariest open he's faced. Because even if he stops the harass of hellions, he can't get into your base. I've faced a 1 base slingbling bust, and stopped it just because the hellions clean up the slings and you can just drop port to block the new whole. What does hurt is roach rushing. But, they can't afford to leave their base alone, so they HAVE to put spines, which means less roaches, and an even slower lair. If they roach rush, they can't do enough damage to stop the 4-8 marines with scvs and a wall, ya know? Pro players can make wrong decisions all the time, they always talk about how they know so little about the game since it's so new and there's so many strats that have been unexplored. Why don't you try to explain or test why you can't siege expand and harass? Instead of blindly following good players. Because sling bling will over run you. If you expo, and get siege tanks, you won't have many marines + bunkers, or enough tanks to stop a solid 2 base sling bling bust, let along if they roach sling bling. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On February 07 2011 05:08 iAmJeffReY wrote: What does hurt is roach rushing. But, they can't afford to leave their base alone, so they HAVE to put spines, which means less roaches, and an even slower lair. If they roach rush, they can't do enough damage to stop the 4-8 marines with scvs and a wall, ya know? You should be able to hold a Roach Rush with bunker repair on maps with good natural chokes. You know, now that I think about it, why don't you instead of popping out 2 sets of vikings, pop a pair of vikings and then a viking/medivac pair. I'm not sure you actually need 4 vikings. You can do marine or hellion drop like the PookieMonster's build because the hellions force spines at the front. It'll give your hellions something to do like hose the lings off your vikings. So basically the timings would be. Reactored Hellions -> Kill Ovies to force Ovie production -> Drop hellions/marines in main and land vikings? I have a feeling this would screw up the zerg's game timings enough that your big push rolls him. | ||
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RukKus
United States197 Posts
I find that when I create Vikings to scout the map, is there a certain pattern that overlords travel? I find myself wandering all over trying to find overlords, maybe only killing one (two if lucky) before the engagement. This allows a larger army production by Zerg prior to the big push (even though the push still owns them). How do you scout with your vikings? | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
ASM -- 4 vikings for 1 specific reason. 4 x 12 > 45. They one hit workers. That way you can studder step vikings into mineral lines and work off drones one by one very very fast. And all that while, my 5th viking and first medic are building. Sometimes I double medic, sometimes I 1 viking 1 medic, it's all feeling based really. And if they spine up, I have siege tanks just for that very reason. Spines fall in 1 volley from a army that size with the DPS and tanks backing. | ||
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RukKus
United States197 Posts
Thanks for the amazing answers. This build is giving my multitasking a workout as I attempt intricate hellion/viking micro while macroing a big army and doing swaps! | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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RukKus
United States197 Posts
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On February 07 2011 08:03 iAmJeffReY wrote: Yes there are very specific overlord spots. There's a thread on it somewhere, I can't remember where. ASM -- 4 vikings for 1 specific reason. 4 x 12 > 45. They one hit workers. That way you can studder step vikings into mineral lines and work off drones one by one very very fast. And all that while, my 5th viking and first medic are building. Sometimes I double medic, sometimes I 1 viking 1 medic, it's all feeling based really. And if they spine up, I have siege tanks just for that very reason. Spines fall in 1 volley from a army that size with the DPS and tanks backing. That's cool though I'm sure 3 Vikings + multiple hellions in the back of zerg's base would work atleast as well. Especially because vikings do not pursue. Anyway, you should make your own thread. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
I got two more examples of the build vs a rather ehhhhh 2600 zerg master ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-187200.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-187201.jpg) I've found it work great on xelnaga, scrap, metalopolis, shakuras (hellions not so hot but they force spines) Delta definitely. Maps with a choke I haven't had much work on with it yet, as I'm still hammering out the fine timings. OL hunting on temple will be a dream though, hellions maybe not so hot of a harass. But, by taking map control, you've secured an expansion safely with heavy heavy pressure to force a lot of units and unnecessary spinecrawlers etc. Anyway, you should make your own thread. lol I'm thinking about it. But then I'm afraid it'll catch on, and I'll become like kcdc was a while back where EVERY terran knew he was gonna 1 gate FE. I'd hate to face every zerg and not be able to use my favorite build! Haha, but tomorrow after work I'm going to try and type out some of the finer details and timings I've worked on. I don't seem to have many GOOD examples vs good zergs beyond my prac partner synthetiq. I have another roach rushing friend i'm going to try and run it on (hes never seen it) but he's 3k to see if it's as strong as I think it is. | ||
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Praxis1452
41 Posts
On February 07 2011 09:55 iAmJeffReY wrote: At the same time that I hope most zergs don't know about it, I feel like this is opener is too strong to be ignored.No, not as of lately. I didn't get a chance to play today, had to put my mailbox back in the ground after a truck ran it over -_- and work on my clutch on my Si. Crappy day. And last night my little bit of laddering was a successful 4 TvT's and 1 somehow 1-1-1 bunker rush on a zerg that won the game in 7 minutes lol I got two more examples of the build vs a rather ehhhhh 2600 zerg master I've found it work great on xelnaga, scrap, metalopolis, shakuras (hellions not so hot but they force spines) Delta definitely. Maps with a choke I haven't had much work on with it yet, as I'm still hammering out the fine timings. OL hunting on temple will be a dream though, hellions maybe not so hot of a harass. But, by taking map control, you've secured an expansion safely with heavy heavy pressure to force a lot of units and unnecessary spinecrawlers etc. lol I'm thinking about it. But then I'm afraid it'll catch on, and I'll become like kcdc was a while back where EVERY terran knew he was gonna 1 gate FE. I'd hate to face every zerg and not be able to use my favorite build! Haha, but tomorrow after work I'm going to try and type out some of the finer details and timings I've worked on. I don't seem to have many GOOD examples vs good zergs beyond my prac partner synthetiq. I have another roach rushing friend i'm going to try and run it on (hes never seen it) but he's 3k to see if it's as strong as I think it is. I did lose to a roach/hydra rush off 2 or 1 bases. He expanded at the gold on SS and I didn't scout it I think. That or he went 1 base roach/hydra which tbh I scouted, I just didn't bring my scv's to repair in time. Anyway, I finally beat my masters friend who is zerg as a diamond T. I never beat him before or really even came close, but this all-in actually worked incredibly well. I even floated 800 mins for a while. | ||
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Lezt
United States115 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
2 viking pop, split into (for me) 2 and 3, go seperate ways, pop 2 OLs and then the new queen starts, all OLs get pulled in. Land on high ground, run in pop the queen, hellion up the ramp if you got the ability or no spines. It's just so dirty of a timing for such a big army. Someone asked why I brought the SCVs in a PM. The medic heals the marines/scv. SCV autorepair obviously keeps tank/viking/medic/hellion alive MUCH longer. That 75-90 food ball that hits at 10-10:30 has too high of a DPS plus healing to be dealt with out losing a substaincial amount of units/OL/queen/spines/expo to compensate for the SCV pull. By CCing in base, you can secure a very safe expansion. I used to HATEEEE scrap. Now, if I'm gonna prac vs a zerg for the first time, I give em scrap and just work 'em, to make the coming game on metalopolis be a brutal ass kicking (for me =( =( ) | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On February 07 2011 04:55 Flyinspageti wrote: Pro players can make wrong decisions all the time, they always talk about how they know so little about the game since it's so new and there's so many strats that have been unexplored. Why don't you try to explain or test why you can't siege expand and harass? Instead of blindly following good players. Because you're spending all your gas on tanks and unless you're planning on "harassing" with pure rines, you can't afford to get any other gas unit while siege expanding. The onus is on you to provide one unit that can harass zerg efficiently. | ||
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Praxis1452
41 Posts
On February 07 2011 11:49 iAmJeffReY wrote: It's like rediculous on scrap. if you harass at all decently, and pop the expo queen, by the time I retreat with vikings, I'm already through the rocks on my side, with the scvs just getting pulled to land the vikings and repair as I bust through their rocks. No OLs without speed, with 4 vikings out flying will try to regain map control of the middle rocks, nor the air inbetween. I do a pattern, as any terran would as all zergs place OLs at expo, middle, lower tower, side top of their base, sometimes the island, sometimes middle of the two bases. 2 viking pop, split into (for me) 2 and 3, go seperate ways, pop 2 OLs and then the new queen starts, all OLs get pulled in. Land on high ground, run in pop the queen, hellion up the ramp if you got the ability or no spines. It's just so dirty of a timing for such a big army. Someone asked why I brought the SCVs in a PM. The medic heals the marines/scv. SCV autorepair obviously keeps tank/viking/medic/hellion alive MUCH longer. That 75-90 food ball that hits at 10-10:30 has too high of a DPS plus healing to be dealt with out losing a substaincial amount of units/OL/queen/spines/expo to compensate for the SCV pull. By CCing in base, you can secure a very safe expansion. I used to HATEEEE scrap. Now, if I'm gonna prac vs a zerg for the first time, I give em scrap and just work 'em, to make the coming game on metalopolis be a brutal ass kicking (for me =( =( ) I have to ask because my macro hasn't been perfect, can you produce out of the factory and the starport? | ||
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HumbleHuman
United States7 Posts
Tried it on blistering sands and it destroyed the guy, even though hellion openings generally suck on that map. Props. | ||
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ChuckJagoda
United States27 Posts
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Wulf_Ector
Canada37 Posts
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Zoia
United States419 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
You could've dropped the fac with a reactor, took an scv off both gas so only 2 in it, and take the rocks out in the center and have 2-4 more hellions. But, you're way outta my league, so fucking nice harass lol. I can only imagine how frustrating it is. Most zergs are SO stuck to muta on that map, that they don't know what to do when you take that away or delay it so long. That mass is just too strong of a DPS to deal with with slings and queens ya know? Nice rep dude. | ||
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Praxis1452
41 Posts
I experimented a bit that game with cutting hellions out all together and simply going for the fastest vikings. I also tried bunker rushing, but I think that throws my timing off by a bit too much, especially because most decent zergs won't let that bunker complete like it did that game. Killed 1 drone and 6 lings because he threw them at me. I think I would have won playing normal due to the close spawns anyway, but I actually feel like this is more effective compared to other aggressive techniques on far positions due to them spreading overlords out and your ability to just pick them off. Opening reactor hellion rarely allows me to kill that many drones against most zergs, but that's just me. idk, seems like spines and queens at the ramp as well as speedlings end that too quickly. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Hellions roast about 20 lings, no drones. Vikings killed 2 OLs I think, max. By the time he chased me away, I had 2 tanks, 15 marines, 3 vikings, 1 medic, 10 scvs at his door, 12 minute game, with 3rd tank almost there, 4th out at my base, with 4 more marines and 2 more vikings and expo landed and with 7-10 scvs and a mule at both bases.. Like, seriously. 12 minutes. Still ONLY on 1-1-1 and pushing strong, strong, strong. It's all about map control and disguising your push as long as possible. ---edit ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-187525.jpg) Probably the last replay because I doubt anyone cares, really. But here it is, 1-1 CC in base, into 1-1-1 reactor hellion -> viking -> marine tank scv medic viking push at 10 min Shows the general BO, I guess, for the economic CC in base and still not missing a beat on harass timings. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
Also easily tuned to suit my preferences (earlier stim, less vikings, later CC?). Thanks for the tips. | ||
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darkzuka
Peru88 Posts
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Praxis1452
41 Posts
4x viking drop on the ground is like an 8x marine drop. viking (ground) 12 dmg 1 speed Marine 6 dmg .86 speed The viking is barely slower. The best part though is that vikings are mech and so they can be repaired. Since you're already sniping ovies, the number of vikings you get just keeps growing all the while delaying their mutas. ex. so instead of just trying to actively hunt overlords, you kill the first couple that you see, land in his base kill his queen. If the lings come and you've already killed the queen you can kill a bunch of lings too. Lift up once they get a few good hits in and snipe the ovies that will probably come out of his hatch from you sniping the first 2-3. Also, I generally try to kill as many ovies as possible, then land, repair, and push. I usually get like 3-5. I just micro my viking taking queen hits away from her while constantly shooting the ovies that they produce. | ||
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Zoia
United States419 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On February 08 2011 17:23 darkzuka wrote: this also can work to pool/hatchery?? Yes. Infact, most of my games are against pool before hatch. It just means be more careful with your hellions and don't blindly lose them all as they have speed earlier. Marauder/hellion is a very, very effective open if the zerg pools first, btw. I believe it's a 1-1 tech swap into 2-1 reactor on fac, 2 tech lab for marauders. I'd always suggest a small SCV pull as it keeps hellions alive a LOT longer. ex. so instead of just trying to actively hunt overlords, you kill the first couple that you see, land in his base kill his queen. If the lings come and you've already killed the queen you can kill a bunch of lings too. Lift up once they get a few good hits in and snipe the ovies that will probably come out of his hatch from you sniping the first 2-3. That's exactly what I do. First two go seperate ways to hunt OLs, once the next two pop out I go to find harder OLs and 4 bang em up. At most, a queen will get you down to half life on 1-2 vikings. Go to expo, or main, drop and walk and shit on the queen if possible. If he runs it, pop 4-5 drones lift and run before he comes back. The 7 range on vikings on the ground is SO dirty. With a hellion marine scv wall, and tanks blasting from the back the DPS is so outrageously high. They have to land 4-5 solid banelings on an improperly controlled ball to deal enough damage to be ahead. That's the key though, once two vikings pop, and say you get lucky and pop 2 separate OLs, the rest are pulled back, another queen is started, an evo chamber is started. They forgo map control, all you have to do is take the towers with your hellions. | ||
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RukKus
United States197 Posts
I've been having equal success vs 1 base (late expo) Z, and FE Z. However, the early speedling into muta builds have given this some trouble. One game I pushed out, and the Z had 8 Muta popping when I reached his base. It took my 12 marines and 4 vikings to take them and the lings out. I was left with 2 tanks vs 2 Queens. The queens transfused (!) each other and dominated the tanks! How do you deal with Mass Muta? Vikings+hellion+tank are all ground... and I had to lift the Vikings to engage the Muta. I could have still won, as I did burn through his Nat expo and half his drones before losing my push... but here's the second problem: I did not lay an expo before I pushed out, and my attention was focused on microing the push. After he defended, I couldn't recover fast enough before 12 Muta flew in and picked off marines/viking as they spawned. The issue is not my lack of macro but rather my familiarity with this build. I still need to play it. OK, so my official question is: Does this build leave room for laying down a CC before the ~10:00 push? If I had layed down a CC and more production buildings I would have had enough troops to defend and then do a second timing push. It was a VERY close game vs a 2800 Z! | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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