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Hey Guys,
My question for discussion is simply that.
During this GSL and the last few really,
I have not seen much Infestor play happening with the top Zerg players.
In many interviews, when asked, (what is your favorite unit) ((Idra comes to mind))
they say : Infestor
and most of the GSL ZvT games have been very marine heavy and zerg is having trouble catching the marines, yet I still almost never see Infestors being used.
Is anyone else noticing this?
Is there an issue with this unit? is it to hard to micro? is it to expensive for the payoff?
Its deterred me from using them lately and its making my zerg arsenal feel short.
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theyre too gas heavy which means you'll have less mutas and they have 80 hp and are armoured but they have 0 armour so tanks will do 50 dmg.
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On February 01 2011 06:06 Giwoon wrote:
theyre too gas heavy which means you'll have less mutas and they have 80 hp and are armoured but they have 0 armour so tanks will do 50 dmg.
Is this the general opinion of the SC community?
that our main caster unit its to expensive and vulnerable to use?
even when their best counter (lings, blings, mutas, marines) are being used?
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I can't think of a game off-hand where infestors were not use? During the initial pushes, it's perhaps just better to get mutas and pick off the few tanks or harass the mineral lines.
Later on, when bulks of units are quite common, Infestors come into play. It's just a question of where you want to dump your gas/mins.
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Great spells but they're fat and easy to snipe.
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On February 01 2011 06:13 Omni17 wrote:
Great spell but they're fat and easy to snipe.
Fixed.
Infester Terran is the fence for me, I never find myself truly using them.
Neural Parasite, lol, need we really talk about it?
It's all about the Fungal Growth to be honest.
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They´re used very much in Zerg mirror. They´re good vs Terran but you absolutely need mutas for map control to outexpand the terran and to snipe tanks and you just don´t have enough gas to afford mutas AND Banelings AND infestors until like 4+ bases and then your gas is much better spent on tier 3 units.
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I don't know about the pros, but it's more or less how I feel. I'm too busy focusing on macro elements to incorporate infestors and really make good use of them, they just seem to get sniped whenever I try because I can't babysit them without everything else slipping.
But I do think fungal growth is great in each matchup and infestors can compliment just about any army composition. I'm just not good enough to take advantage yet. One step at a time. 
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i LOVE infestors! against terran cuz when my blings run in, the rines always kite back so i fungal growth and just tear thru the rines. the only reason i just used infestors is cuz i needed an extra hotkey because
1-mutas
2-slings,ultras
3-bling
4-hatch
so i put cont group 6 as W so i can fg, sure they have 90 hp but they are worth it
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Spending that much gas can get you 9 banelings, 2 mutas or 1 fungal growth, to get enough infestors to really lock down the marine balls you need to severely cut back on either banelings or mutalisks.
Infestors are amazing once you have them but the resources you need to sink into getting enough of them makes them hard to really use when your having to continually spam units so as to not get run over by Marine/Tank and during the end game when you do have enough gas to support them your normally dedicating your gas to Hive tech units.
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fungal growth and infested terran go hand in hand. And Neural has it's place, its just very rare.
That being said, i'm not quite sure. A lot of the times i've seen marines just kite everything and i've wondered the same thing. Sure its a lot of minerals, but sometimes they are just better than massing units and hoping you can kill them even when they are kiting everything you throw at them.
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Because you have to micro the infestors, and zergs want to play a mAcRoGaMe and basicaly they don't do micro. Micro is for lame races likes terran and protosses. MaCrO is for leet races that lose because blizzard can't do shit with balance.
So most zergs don't use infestors because they don't have the micro skill to use them, so they think infestors sucks.
User was warned for this post
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I always try to get some (only one or two mind you) when I do manage to scuffle together the resources.
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I like catz's playstyle, and honestly he'd be the Zerg I'd have nightmares fighting.
He uses tons of them.
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On February 01 2011 06:19 MrCon wrote:
Because you have to micro the infestors, and zergs want to play a mAcRoGaMe and basicaly they don't do micro. Micro is for lame races likes terran and protosses. MaCrO is for leet races that lose because blizzard can't do shit with balance.
So most zergs don't use infestors because they don't have the micro skill to use them.
Helpful.
On February 01 2011 06:20 Euronyme wrote:
I like catz's playstyle, and honestly he'd be the Zerg I'd have nightmares fighting.
He uses tons of them.
I'm not familiar with his style; when does he get them in ZvT?
On February 01 2011 06:18 bearjuice wrote:Sure its a lot of minerals, but sometimes they are just better than massing units and hoping you can kill them even when they are kiting everything you throw at them.
The issue isn't minerals it's the gas cost as cutting back on mutas means giving up a lot of map control and makes drops much more scary, while cutting back on banes means the terran can push forward much quicker.
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On February 01 2011 06:19 MrCon wrote:
Because you have to micro the infestors, and zergs want to play a mAcRoGaMe and basicaly they don't do micro. Micro is for lame races likes terran and protosses. MaCrO is for leet races that lose because blizzard can't do shit with balance.
So most zergs don't use infestors because they don't have the micro skill to use them, so they think infestors sucks.
I hear a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance coming!!!
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On February 01 2011 06:17 TheButtonmen wrote:
Spending that much gas can get you 9 banelings, 2 mutas or 1 fungal growth, to get enough infestors to really lock down the marine balls you need to severely cut back on either banelings or mutalisks.
Infestors are amazing once you have them but the resources you need to sink into getting enough of them makes them hard to really use when your having to continually spam units so as to not get run over by Marine/Tank and during the end game when you do have enough gas to support them your normally dedicating your gas to Hive tech units.
There are a few things to take into account here.
The infestor has restorable energy.
The enemy is less likely to do the foxer split micro against them, so a successful attack is alot more likely than with banelings.
Units who are fungaled can't move. Banelings kill everything.
Siege tanks that aren't sieged can't siege when fungaled. Go go ling/bane.
I think they're severely underused basically. They rock terran mid to end game. They are used quite often in ZvZ, and in ZvP I personally feel they're not quite as good however, but that's just me.
Whatch the "12 weeks with the pros" by MrBitter on TL when he's coached by catz... it's BEATIFUL!
Edit: Also they shut down drop play.
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3,1k masterleague zerg, i feel like i never have enough gas as zerg. So when i got zerglingspeed (and roach if they open hellion) i rush for tier2 and when the lair is up you will need to pressure back or good terrans will be in a position where they just macro so had that an never ending attack starts, so you need to delay his third for a while and harass, also you need to deal with his harass to get your own macro going so you will need Mutas to deal with drops and harass your opponent
at least you will need about 16 to deal with turrets, so that he cant leave his base so easily, while you get your own macro going, when he got his third and got enough defence to deal with your harass you will be scared of an hard timingattack to deal with these kind of an attack you will need tier3 units i.g. Broodlords, so after you got your 16mutas and you got your macro and upgrades going i like to rush for tier3 and save up as much gas as possible for broodlords, ofc you could try to use infestor to delay his push but you delay your tier3units by that as well, so i like to skip infestor
tbh i tried to go for infestor and drop in midgame instead of mutalisk, but it felt quite harder to deal with drops and also to pressure back, and dropresearch takes quite a while
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IMO, while infestors are good, mutas are better.
Infestors are great defense and a good fungal growth can minimize your baneling losses while maximizing their damage.
But they don't give you map control like mutas do.
They don't delay/deny your opponent's 3rd like mutas do.
They don't force turrets like mutas do.
They can stop drops, but not nearly as efficient as mutas can.
If you wait until after you get mutas to get infestors, you will probably delay your hive by a significant amount, as well as probably not being able to have enough banelings to defend a big mid-game attack.
Another small point to add, is that infestors are slow off-creep, and only mediocre speed on-creep, they have low health and are extremely vulnerable to marauders, tanks, or banshees.
Against a mass marine/thor army or hellion/thor army, I could maybe see infestors being better than mutas, otherwise mutas are superior in most other situations.
edit: another possibility is to cut back mutas after 8-10 or so, using them only to harass & force turrets while getting your 3rd up, then switch to infestors while getting hive. However that is pure theorycraft, I don't know how well that would work.
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On February 01 2011 06:32 sieesch wrote:
3,1k masterleague zerg, i feel like i never have enough gas as zerg. So when i got zerglingspeed (and roach if they open hellion) i rush for tier2 and when the lair is up you will need to pressure back or good terrans will be in a position where they just macro so had that an never ending attack starts, so you need to delay his third for a while and harass, also you need to deal with his harass to get your own macro going so you will need Mutas to deal with drops and harass your opponent
at least you will need about 16 to deal with turrets, so that he cant leave his base so easily, while you get your own macro going, when he got his third and got enough defence to deal with your harass you will be scared of an hard timingattack to deal with these kind of an attack you will need tier3 units i.g. Broodlords, so after you got your 16mutas and you got your macro and upgrades going i like to rush for tier3 and save up as much gas as possible for broodlords, ofc you could try to use infestor to delay his push but you delay your tier3units by that as well, so i like to skip infestor
tbh i tried to go for infestor and drop in midgame instead of mutalisk, but it felt quite harder to deal with drops and also to pressure back, and dropresearch takes quite a while
This.
I am 3k+ masterleague zerg as well, and to be honest, I have NEVER made an infestor in a 1v1 ladder game. Gas is such a precious resource I feel like infestor is a waste. Given a choice between an upgrade or infestor, I will choose upgrade 100% of the time. Not to mention I already feel like I am jumping around constantly with micro/macro/map control/scouting/injecting/creeping, I feel like taking even more time for a perfectly placed fungal growth is too rare an opportunity to be worth it imo.
Then again maybe I just suck and it is a huge leak, but I never used them and don't plan on it anytime soon. Even in ZvZ, when I see my opponent getting infestors, it feels like a free win. Oh, you can lock me down for a few seconds? Well my +2/+2 speedroaches/hydras are still gonna pwn your whole army.
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EPT
