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[ D ] - Why aren't Zerg pros using Infestors? - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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ChThoniC
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States536 Posts
February 02 2011 06:30 GMT
#181
I've been experimenting with quick infestor into quick brood lords, but I don't think it lets you keep down the army size of Terran enough. If they scout that greater spire and get some vikes out, their deathball will still rape yours.
i c u
Dice.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States78 Posts
February 02 2011 06:51 GMT
#182
Infestors need some kind of buff, fosho. Where is my dark swarm? ;-)
Ahh, that's the stuff. [b]Team Dice[/b] [b][green]Main Team[/green][/b] 2 [tlpd#players#4#T#sc2-korean]Bbyong[/tlpd] 5 [tlpd#players#6#T#sc2-korean]Fantasy[/tlpd] 3 [tlpd#players#629#P#sc2-korean]Oz[/tlpd] 7 [tlpd#players#2322#P#sc2-korean]Parting[/tlp
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
February 02 2011 06:52 GMT
#183
On February 02 2011 15:30 ChThoniC wrote:
I've been experimenting with quick infestor into quick brood lords, but I don't think it lets you keep down the army size of Terran enough. If they scout that greater spire and get some vikes out, their deathball will still rape yours.

there is no such thing as a quick broodlord
I just go quick infestors into a bunch of expands, get some mutas ect if i feel i want them, transition to ultras, and have the whole map and eveyr upgrade and just win by default.

also if you really want to "beat" Vikings with broods you really have to use star1 style Muta micro with them, since broodlings lock on instantly and fireo n their own yuo can run in hold position and run out (run is used more like crawl), and that allows you to get shots off without taking as many viking volleys.
Tudi
Profile Joined January 2011
Romania127 Posts
February 02 2011 11:14 GMT
#184
Would love to use them more but cost is the main reason I tend to skip them. Not sure if they need a buff, maybe just a reduction in cost (or infested terran "egg" spawn time).
HaeHei
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom162 Posts
February 02 2011 11:24 GMT
#185
Well when i play against terran and get into the mid game i get mutas which forces thors by then i get infestors that control the thors lol i am in plat but still use this and it works against some diamond player i have played against so meh... i think that nerual parasite is quite good and should be used more in tournaments and stuff.... just my opinon.....

:D
Humans are weak. For every cure found, another disease is uncovered. It's a game of chase.
DImported
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia149 Posts
February 02 2011 12:38 GMT
#186
i almost always get infestors in zvz. they are necessary to counter mutas and give a huge positioning advantage in roach wars.

against terran, they tend to be only useful once marine numbers reach 40+ or if they mass thors.


against protoss they are really only good against blink stalkers and mass air builds.
Sega92
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States467 Posts
February 02 2011 18:54 GMT
#187
well i just feel like there are only a few zerg pros 1, and 2 they tend to get rushed in the gsl where they cant even get infestors so i think when bigger maps come the infestor will come in more and we will see some gosu FG and infestor use
pandaminion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States270 Posts
February 02 2011 20:39 GMT
#188
I feel that having map control and therefore the ability to drone hard is more important than playing defensively with infestors. You're right, people should use Infestors more, but at 150 gas for a fat unit that dies fairly quickly, it's not really worth it relative to mutalisks.
Mjolnir
Profile Joined January 2009
912 Posts
February 02 2011 23:36 GMT
#189
On February 02 2011 15:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2011 15:30 ChThoniC wrote:
I've been experimenting with quick infestor into quick brood lords, but I don't think it lets you keep down the army size of Terran enough. If they scout that greater spire and get some vikes out, their deathball will still rape yours.

there is no such thing as a quick broodlord
I just go quick infestors into a bunch of expands, get some mutas ect if i feel i want them, transition to ultras, and have the whole map and eveyr upgrade and just win by default.

also if you really want to "beat" Vikings with broods you really have to use star1 style Muta micro with them, since broodlings lock on instantly and fireo n their own yuo can run in hold position and run out (run is used more like crawl), and that allows you to get shots off without taking as many viking volleys.


I've been reading your later posts and it seems you have a pretty solid strat in mind with Infestors.

I have some questions:

1. Do you focus on Infestor over muta in every match up?
2. When you're using Infestor to run the map and tech to Ultras, how do you handle timed pushes with heavy units such as Thor or heavy Roach? Infestors and a heap of Zerglings or Hydras?
3. Do you have any replays that we could watch where we see your strategy at work vs. Zergs, Terran, or Protoss?

Thanks

flyingbangus
Profile Joined December 2010
United States121 Posts
February 03 2011 01:33 GMT
#190
FYI, Roach-Infestor is so much fun in team games ^_^

I try to get Infestors every game, but more towards the late-game instead of mid-game. I feel that 3-4 energy-upgraded Infestors make your deathball much stronger with FG and infested terrans. We all know how effective it is in ZvT, and the recent Roach-Infestor trend in ZvZ. In ZvP, I tend to primarily use this to stall the P army while I try to snipe their 3rd/4th. I also always try to cliff-abuse in LT and DQ with Infestor and Nydus, if they did not open with stargate.
55v66v77v88v99v4sffffuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzz
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 01:35:58
February 03 2011 01:35 GMT
#191
On February 03 2011 08:36 Mjolnir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2011 15:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On February 02 2011 15:30 ChThoniC wrote:
I've been experimenting with quick infestor into quick brood lords, but I don't think it lets you keep down the army size of Terran enough. If they scout that greater spire and get some vikes out, their deathball will still rape yours.

there is no such thing as a quick broodlord
I just go quick infestors into a bunch of expands, get some mutas ect if i feel i want them, transition to ultras, and have the whole map and eveyr upgrade and just win by default.

also if you really want to "beat" Vikings with broods you really have to use star1 style Muta micro with them, since broodlings lock on instantly and fireo n their own yuo can run in hold position and run out (run is used more like crawl), and that allows you to get shots off without taking as many viking volleys.


I've been reading your later posts and it seems you have a pretty solid strat in mind with Infestors.

I have some questions:

1. Do you focus on Infestor over muta in every match up?
2. When you're using Infestor to run the map and tech to Ultras, how do you handle timed pushes with heavy units such as Thor or heavy Roach? Infestors and a heap of Zerglings or Hydras?
3. Do you have any replays that we could watch where we see your strategy at work vs. Zergs, Terran, or Protoss?

Thanks


1. In ZvZ I tend to get get to lair and hydra infestor fairly quickly, ignoring mutas, due to the extreme APM requirements to control mutas vs infestors (3-4 control groups all moving simultaeneously).
In ZvT i get infestors quickly and if they go for the siege tank all in that is very strong vs early infestors then i start mutas when i scout that. generally once i hit hive i put up a spire and pump out mutas every time i kill a harrassment or army in order to counter with lings in the front and mutas in the economy.
in ZvP i tend to ignore both infestors and mutalisk until the late game where i get 2-3 infestors to deal with collosus stalker balls. I don't use mutas much in this matchup at all.

2. pushes with thors generally at the stage i'm getting ultras would be 1-3 thors with a bunch of bio, so infestors with zerglings can handle that with proper control and good fungals. the plan is to get hive tech pretty quickly, expand alot and sit on my tech until i decide what i need.

Heavy roach tends to be more of an issue for infestor hydra, and i tend to just sacrifice economic solutions for the survival solution and just mass banes and fungal and blow up the roaches inefficiently while i try to keep their base count low with cracklings and such.

but hydra ling infestor or hydra roach infestor is dealt with with your own infestor ling hydra with good fungals and baneling flanks to kill off hydras and lings. you have to avoid clumping up mot of your banes or infestors 1 shot them however.

3. i have only old replays, i said earlier in this thread my practice time has been taken away by school and stuff so once i get back to better form and my schedule is back i'll have newer replays.

about 27 replays are here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146843

not all of them have great players as opponents as earlier on diamond was pretty random in skill. but all of them tend to showcase the most primitive forms of that build (it's alot more refined in it's timing now.

EDIT: vs P is my weakest matchup and i'm still kind of struggling to find builds that fit my style to handle protoss.
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
February 03 2011 01:53 GMT
#192
Before counting the cost of Infestors v other units, think about what Fungal Growth lets you do. ZvZ you can lock an entire Mutalisk swarm in place and rip them apart with Hydralisks. ZvP you could hold a Colossus death ball in place to minimize the damage Corruptors take while hitting Colossi as half the Stalkers are out of range and can't Blink. ZvT you can hold that entire MMM ball in place and make your Banelings that much more effective.
Snaphoo
Profile Joined July 2010
United States614 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-06 00:45:00
February 06 2011 00:44 GMT
#193
Idra v. IMMVP, recent game from Idra's stream casted by Artosis: http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtosisTV?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/0/NmEWrxklf8U Idra uses Infestors to back up ultras and also snipe vikings after having forced them by using Brood Lords.

Part of it is situational, and part of it is also that ZvT often ends on 2 bases for Terran one way or the other, but pro Z players are certainly using Infestors. I think you might be reading into it too much; as the meta-game develops and macro games become more common, I think it's very likely that we'll see more Infestor play from Z pros in GSL.
Neivler
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Norway911 Posts
February 06 2011 01:02 GMT
#194
I only get infestors out after broods. They are so good to lock down the vikings. But before that they just dont work as great
I pwn noobs
telfire
Profile Joined May 2010
United States415 Posts
February 06 2011 04:03 GMT
#195
Basically, you do see them, just not in great numbers because they're simply too expensive. I see Zergs get like 3-4 of them all the time though if games last long enough. They are a great support unit for the mid and late game.
The Final Boss
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1839 Posts
February 06 2011 06:12 GMT
#196
On February 01 2011 06:19 MrCon wrote:
Because you have to micro the infestors, and zergs want to play a mAcRoGaMe and basicaly they don't do micro. Micro is for lame races likes terran and protosses. MaCrO is for leet races that lose because blizzard can't do shit with balance.
So most zergs don't use infestors because they don't have the micro skill to use them, so they think infestors sucks.


User was warned for this post


Does utilizing Mutalisks for harass not count as micro? I mean I occasionally play with this Masters zerg player who's way better then me, and he has great Muta control. I feel like landing a nice Fungal Growth sometimes isn't as difficult as keeping Mutalisks alive against Stimmed-Marines or Templar.
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-06 06:47:25
February 06 2011 06:38 GMT
#197
as far as i know, they are??? they are not stable 'yea i'm ALWAYS getting infestors, fuck yea fungal growth!' type units but they are situationally awesome, especially the later the game goes. they're a core of some mid-game zvz compositions and are awesome with hive tech vs terran. they are also situationally useful against the mothership/blink build that's been popping up, though i'm not compltely certain on where and how it fits ultimately

i think what a lot of people are saying is true too, about how infestors add that extra degree of control. you really have to babysit them a lot actually, because they tend to run off and kill themselves after using their spell, similar to high templar but they actually move at a decent speed so unlike high templar, they will rush the front line that much faster. most average zerg players can't handle this sort of unit babysitting right now and it really is required to make infestors efficient, because if you're only getting 1 fungal per infestor, it's not worth making

edit: i do however like mrbitter's, though it needs a little work on the build timings, infestor/ling/bling against the first major marine/tank timing vs t. it's not really his build originally but he's just an example of someone who you can watch on stream doing it regularly. marine/tank hits at a time where your muta count is low and vulnerable, and unless you're like nestea or idra level of good, handling that is a very scary thing. i think for the middle of the road player, infestors actually make that situation easier, and your mutalisks are delayed but you almost always handle the attack so well that you feel comfortable transitioning into a spire. i think you're good for a third base if they push out when you have infestors, which allows 3 hatch muta to build up quite fast, and the mutalisks allow you to take more bases while infestors delay things at home
Raembo
Profile Joined December 2010
Indonesia46 Posts
February 17 2011 14:56 GMT
#198
do you guys know if fungal growth dmg is upgradable from melee attack upgrade in the evo chamber?

how about infested terrans is it upgradable dmg from the range attack in the evo chamber?
"People don't change, they only adapt"
Rabbitmaster
Profile Joined August 2010
1357 Posts
February 17 2011 15:03 GMT
#199
Well i only recentrly started playing zerg, but i use infestors all the time. Especially vs colossus. I if can NP half his colo for 3-4 seconds (which is far from hard imo) i dont my 200 army absolutely crushes the protoss 200 army.

Just my $0.02
God is dead.
innoby
Profile Joined April 2010
Ireland42 Posts
February 17 2011 15:42 GMT
#200
I remember watching a practice match between Ret and Fruitdealer where ret went Infestor roach and entirely countered muta ling play with it...was rather amusing watching someone with no units that can directly shoot air killing mutas with only spells, really quite amusing
Zerg macro is not OP its Zerg Macro.
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