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On February 01 2011 06:12 emazzuca wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 06:06 Giwoon wrote:
theyre too gas heavy which means you'll have less mutas and they have 80 hp and are armoured but they have 0 armour so tanks will do 50 dmg. Is this the general opinion of the SC community? that our main caster unit its to expensive and vulnerable to use? even when their best counter (lings, blings, mutas, marines) are being used?
"general opinion" after 1 reply? lol.
its alot more to micro. its also a risk unit, if it doesnt get good spells off successfully uve went and wasted your money, where as if u bought regular military units they would have guranteed some damage being dealt.
infestors are fine, they are a superb spell caster. by all means its far better than a ghost or raven.
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If I remember correctly, fruitdealer used them in some clutch situations to shut down drops in GSL1.
Lately I've been using infestors in ZvT instead of mutas, and it has been working well. The thing I don't like about mutas is you can really waste a huge gas investment with little to no return if the terran gets some thors or has good turret placement, then the mutas are almost always not good in a straight up fight. Infestors on the other hand are fantastic in a straight up fight, and you actually still have strong map control with speedlings.
I find that they whole gameflow changes with infestors, instead of the old style where I max, fight, and then remax with tier 3, I am actually hitting tier 3 before I even max, and finish off the terran. Using ling/bling with heavy upgrades and then adding in ultras to snipe his PFs. This is because I am handling the terran harassment much more cost effectively - no stim kiting, shuts down drops just as good as mutas, and I'm not investing huge amounts of gas into units that can't cost effectively fight 10 marines. You don't need nearly as many lings and blings to kill a bio ball that has been fungal'ed. Often times I see how low their health is after stim + fungal and decide to just let the lings clean up while I save the blings for something more important.
The most important thing when using infestors is to keep them alive at all costs, and keep building them when you think you might need a fungal. Eventually you will have enough to have a constant supply of fungals, and the return of gas spend goes up and up.
The biggest weakness to infestor play is heavy siege tank play, it all depends on how many tanks, but this isn't always a bad thing because it further reduces the already slow terran army, and as long as you are careful you can still mow through the siege line when you get ultras out. I find infestors make it much easier to get to that point, and even be ahead.
Another thing that is important to consider, it's not like I just played one game and was like "wow, I kick ass now". Infestors are micro intensive and mistakes are much more costly, and you also need to get in the habit of spreading them out to defend all your bases. Once you get used to it though it's a very strong style of play.
(just a noob 2700 dia zerg)
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i use infestors all the time but my big beef with them is they are HUGE. in a roach hydra army the struggle to get into position to use the spells and they get sniped. it's ridiculous. if they were the size of a ht they would be much better.
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On February 02 2011 03:34 boblzer0 wrote:
i use infestors all the time but my big beef with them is they are HUGE. in a roach hydra army the struggle to get into position to use the spells and they get sniped. it's ridiculous. if they were the size of a ht they would be much better.
Which is why they work much better with a melee ling/bling composition.
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infestor is gas intensive while if u get banelings u almost get the same result. infestor has aoe spell and banelings are also aoe. infestors run out of energy. if that happens u got a unit that cant attack. tanks outrange fungal so they get killed b4 u can lay a fungal. infestors are good but u rlly need a lot of gas to support them. personally, i think they're better in zvz and zvp where u can fungal a death ball and kill everything with brood lords and lings. also infestors are good in roachwars and muta harrassment in zvz.
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EDIT: Not pertinent to the OP
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I dont get why the infestors are so HUGE and therefore easier to see, click on and snipe for the opponent, when the other spellcasters are tiny and even fucking cloaked.
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On February 02 2011 03:37 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 03:34 boblzer0 wrote:
i use infestors all the time but my big beef with them is they are HUGE. in a roach hydra army the struggle to get into position to use the spells and they get sniped. it's ridiculous. if they were the size of a ht they would be much better. Which is why they work much better with a melee ling/bling composition.
yeah i'm just not sure on blizzards logic. was there intent to make them clog everything up and be clunky? i mean the ultra has always been big so at least that makes sense. the defiler was small as hell.
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Infestors are amazing for several reasons.
One I haven't heard mentioned is that it turns chokes to the Zerg's advantage (most commonly in conjunction with brood lords). Do you guys know how wonderful this is? To love fighting in a choke as a Zerg player? It's devastatingly awesome. Infestor's open up whole new avenues of tactical engagement for the swarm.
I would LOVE to open ling/bling/infestor in TvZ. The problem is that tanks are just too damn good. Sure I can try some cutesy burrow/NP play, but if that fails? I just lost the game.
I hate, HATE not being able to cull tanks. Harassment is nice, picking off SCVs is nice, but the MAIN reason I adore mutas is their ability to snipe tanks. So crucial. If I open infestors, I can't do this.
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On February 02 2011 04:19 MrPrezbo wrote:
I hate, HATE not being able to cull tanks. Harassment is nice, picking off SCVs is nice, but the MAIN reason I adore mutas is their ability to snipe tanks. So crucial. If I open infestors, I can't do this.
Try fungalling tanks that are moving and then charge in with speedlings to surround and kill them, fungaling the marines ect to keep them from defending the tanks.
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On February 02 2011 04:50 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 04:19 MrPrezbo wrote:
I hate, HATE not being able to cull tanks. Harassment is nice, picking off SCVs is nice, but the MAIN reason I adore mutas is their ability to snipe tanks. So crucial. If I open infestors, I can't do this.
Try fungalling tanks that are moving and then charge in with speedlings to surround and kill them, fungaling the marines ect to keep them from defending the tanks.
In theory that's completely possible. In practice, not so much. It's a much riskier avenue to destroy tanks than simple muta harass, which is why I opt for that instead.
Put simply, to me, opening infestor is higher risk for the same reward as muta.
EDIT: typos
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On February 02 2011 04:52 MrPrezbo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 04:50 PrinceXizor wrote:On February 02 2011 04:19 MrPrezbo wrote:
I hate, HATE not being able to cull tanks. Harassment is nice, picking off SCVs is nice, but the MAIN reason I adore mutas is their ability to snipe tanks. So crucial. If I open infestors, I can't do this.
Try fungalling tanks that are moving and then charge in with speedlings to surround and kill them, fungaling the marines ect to keep them from defending the tanks. In theory that's completely possible. In practice, not so much. It's a much riskier avenue to destroy tanks than simple muta harass, which is why I opt for that instead. Put simply, to me, opening infestor is higher risk for the same reward as muta. EDIT: typos
your reward for infestors is a faster 3rd and better defended 4th and 5th bases. and using infestors ling to kill tanks is super easy to do once you practice it. same as using mutalisks vs thors. once you get the hang of it it's obvious.
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for the same reason Terrans don't use ghosts.
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Pros use infestors all the time.
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I simply dont use them because I don't have the Gas for them unless I am on 4-5 Bases
unless the Terran is really focusing on Marines, then they are really great just because you can hit Banelings easily and they do a ton of damage with fungal growth against them.
Since Terrans on my level of play are more focusing on Tank/Thor + MMM I go almost every time for as many Mutas as possible.
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On February 02 2011 05:43 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 04:52 MrPrezbo wrote:On February 02 2011 04:50 PrinceXizor wrote:On February 02 2011 04:19 MrPrezbo wrote:
I hate, HATE not being able to cull tanks. Harassment is nice, picking off SCVs is nice, but the MAIN reason I adore mutas is their ability to snipe tanks. So crucial. If I open infestors, I can't do this.
Try fungalling tanks that are moving and then charge in with speedlings to surround and kill them, fungaling the marines ect to keep them from defending the tanks. In theory that's completely possible. In practice, not so much. It's a much riskier avenue to destroy tanks than simple muta harass, which is why I opt for that instead. Put simply, to me, opening infestor is higher risk for the same reward as muta. EDIT: typos your reward for infestors is a faster 3rd and better defended 4th and 5th bases. and using infestors ling to kill tanks is super easy to do once you practice it. same as using mutalisks vs thors. once you get the hang of it it's obvious.
I disagree that it's "super easy." That's fine, I'm sure it's a viable opener to use. It just doesn't suit my play-style. I prefer the mobility and harass options that quick mutas give me. And once I secure a third, I can always acquire infestors from there.
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On February 02 2011 06:23 MrPrezbo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 05:43 PrinceXizor wrote:On February 02 2011 04:52 MrPrezbo wrote:On February 02 2011 04:50 PrinceXizor wrote:On February 02 2011 04:19 MrPrezbo wrote:
I hate, HATE not being able to cull tanks. Harassment is nice, picking off SCVs is nice, but the MAIN reason I adore mutas is their ability to snipe tanks. So crucial. If I open infestors, I can't do this.
Try fungalling tanks that are moving and then charge in with speedlings to surround and kill them, fungaling the marines ect to keep them from defending the tanks. In theory that's completely possible. In practice, not so much. It's a much riskier avenue to destroy tanks than simple muta harass, which is why I opt for that instead. Put simply, to me, opening infestor is higher risk for the same reward as muta. EDIT: typos your reward for infestors is a faster 3rd and better defended 4th and 5th bases. and using infestors ling to kill tanks is super easy to do once you practice it. same as using mutalisks vs thors. once you get the hang of it it's obvious. I disagree that it's "super easy." That's fine, I'm sure it's a viable opener to use. It just doesn't suit my play-style. I prefer the mobility and harass options that quick mutas give me. And once I secure a third, I can always acquire infestors from there.
yeah it's stylistic for sure. and super easy is for me.  because i've been using infestor opennings since beta. i probably have one of the most consistant practice with infestors of anyone, TLO did it while he was zerg until he went T (now R again), Artosis and korea did it for one month, and i've been doing it forever heh.
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On February 02 2011 04:17 boblzer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 03:37 Treemonkeys wrote:On February 02 2011 03:34 boblzer0 wrote:
i use infestors all the time but my big beef with them is they are HUGE. in a roach hydra army the struggle to get into position to use the spells and they get sniped. it's ridiculous. if they were the size of a ht they would be much better. Which is why they work much better with a melee ling/bling composition. yeah i'm just not sure on blizzards logic. was there intent to make them clog everything up and be clunky? i mean the ultra has always been big so at least that makes sense. the defiler was small as hell.
Except generally with ling/bling/ultralisk the advantage you have is being mobile. Infestors blatantly cancel that advantage. It's better to use them with a muscle force like roach/hydra/broodlord simply because of their speed. Mutalisks are better choice for mobility.
However, they are also amazing with blings and ultralisks. Huh. Clearly this game is not as simple as it seems.
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people are looking at this wrong. infestors aren't a viable option vs marine tank (as far as i see) cause zerg play vs that is so fragile, tanks have too much range for FG to get thrown on the marines.
bane-muta-infestor doesn't really work because 200 gas per infestor plus 150 for the upgrade..
lategame infestors are great.. with ultras to trap bio or with broods to kill vikings. there's plenty of great uses for infestors, but they're not the solution to losing to marine tank.
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On February 02 2011 04:17 boblzer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 03:37 Treemonkeys wrote:On February 02 2011 03:34 boblzer0 wrote:
i use infestors all the time but my big beef with them is they are HUGE. in a roach hydra army the struggle to get into position to use the spells and they get sniped. it's ridiculous. if they were the size of a ht they would be much better. Which is why they work much better with a melee ling/bling composition. yeah i'm just not sure on blizzards logic. was there intent to make them clog everything up and be clunky? i mean the ultra has always been big so at least that makes sense. the defiler was small as hell.
did you play bw? defilers size was never an issue because of bw pathing. and infestors were terrifyingly slow. i remember one game JD lost to bisu in a GOM finals that he lost because an infestor was trailing and got killed by a DT when it was following some cracklings to snipe an expo. i'd rather bulky and quick over small (debatable) and slow.
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EPT
