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On January 16 2011 12:14 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 11:34 Orlando Mavado wrote:Mass Void Rays and engage them in a choke. I wonder how Magic Boxed VRs would handle Mass Thors as well. Some Unit Tester findings; 30 Thors vs. 60 Voidrays Thors win with 20+ Thors remaining. Not sure if Magic Box is possible with Void Rays considering they have such slow speed. Sounds like you told them to attack the Thors. Don't. In the unit tester, make 30 thors (180 food) and 35 void rays (105 food). Make sure VRs are allowed to 'settle' properly (spaced out). Select all the void rays and click beyond the thors. Do not under any circumstances a-move. Notice the VRs start firing and charging up even while moving. Hit 'h' when the void rays are centred over the thors. Void rays win easily. Same applies with 3/3 upgrades (no upgraded shields): about 10 VRs left over.
Wow, this is a great vr micro advice! Cheers for that, mate!
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It seems like magic boxed VR would dominate mass thor. If magic boxed mutas do well vs thor until +2 attack is out, it should work even better for VRs.
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The Best counter against thors: VOID RAYS!
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On January 16 2011 20:15 ZappTheRipper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 12:14 Umpteen wrote:On January 16 2011 11:34 Orlando Mavado wrote:Mass Void Rays and engage them in a choke. I wonder how Magic Boxed VRs would handle Mass Thors as well. Some Unit Tester findings; 30 Thors vs. 60 Voidrays Thors win with 20+ Thors remaining. Not sure if Magic Box is possible with Void Rays considering they have such slow speed. Sounds like you told them to attack the Thors. Don't. In the unit tester, make 30 thors (180 food) and 35 void rays (105 food). Make sure VRs are allowed to 'settle' properly (spaced out). Select all the void rays and click beyond the thors. Do not under any circumstances a-move. Notice the VRs start firing and charging up even while moving. Hit 'h' when the void rays are centred over the thors. Void rays win easily. Same applies with 3/3 upgrades (no upgraded shields): about 10 VRs left over. Wow, this is a great vr micro advice! Cheers for that, mate!
I can't possibly take any credit; I'm just describing 'magic boxing' for anyone unfamiliar with the term.
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zealots with charge + immortals sounds like it would work. void rays are also a good counter.
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On January 16 2011 21:13 DImported wrote:
zealots with charge + immortals sounds like it would work. void rays are also a good counter.
250mm strike cannon would like a word with your immortals.
VRs best counter.
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Vs mass-thors chargelots/immortals/carriers work best. Yesterday I encountered this in a 2v2 (for fun with a bronze reallife friend), the zealots and immortals soak up the damage and the carriers (attack upgrades so, so important) do the damage.
It's extremely important that you kinda switch out of the habit of producing sentry/stalker...I know, we protoss-players are kinda used to doing this so it nearly becomes something we do "automatically", but against mech this is really bad in lategame. Once you are on 3-4 bases, which isn't "that" unusual vs terran mech play that does NOT involve a timing push, you should constantly add robos and stargates. In the 2v2 I was talking about, I was on 6 robotics and 7 stargates in the end, so I could reproduce immortals and carriers immediately , which ended the game.
To strike cannons: one thor is more expensive than one immortal. If one thor strike-cannons an immortal, this thor is dead vs the carriers. He won't survive to see another day. Therefore all you need is to keep the immortal-number high enough and constantly reproduce them, then you can defeat the thors comfortably and cost-effectively.
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Mothership can seriously abuse mobility of a mech army with mass recall. Vortex can also be very useful ofc.
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When Jinro went for Thors against MC, MC teched to Carriers. You might wanna try a mix of ground forces/void rays/Carriers.
Sure, MC lost, but that was because he had only 4 Carriers against 20 Vikings.
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On January 16 2011 22:41 Vaethin wrote:
When Jinro went for Thors against MC, MC teched to Carriers. You might wanna try a mix of ground forces/void rays/Carriers.
Sure, MC lost, but that was because he had only 4 Carriers against 20 Vikings. MC should have teched storm + chargelot first to lower the marine/viking count and leave the thors fair game for mass units.
Carriers are good but you cant go straight to carriers or you will get vikingrolled like mc.
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[B]To strike cannons: one thor is more expensive than one immortal. If one thor strike-cannons an immortal, this thor is dead vs the carriers. He won't survive to see another day. Therefore all you need is to keep the immortal-number high enough and constantly reproduce them, then you can defeat the thors comfortably and cost-effectively.
This logic makes no sense in so many ways...
So I should counter your collusus with marines because when your collusus kill my marines they will die to my vikings?
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Mass Thor is basically the most similar style to the BW unstoppable doom push steam roller of Terran Mech.... except it fills your food 3x faster :-p But straight Thor has weaknesses. So the best bet is to take away all the support units (marines/vikings/hellions).
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I see a lot of people have mentioned carriers. The biggest weakness of a carrier is that it takes forever to build. If you constantly chronoboost a carrier, the terran can build 4 vikings in the meantime from a single starport with reactor. By the time you have 4 carriers, the terran will most likely have 16 vikings. And 16 vikings simply annihilate carriers (see Jinro vs MC gsl ro16)
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On January 16 2011 22:46 Armsved wrote:Show nested quote +[B]To strike cannons: one thor is more expensive than one immortal. If one thor strike-cannons an immortal, this thor is dead vs the carriers. He won't survive to see another day. Therefore all you need is to keep the immortal-number high enough and constantly reproduce them, then you can defeat the thors comfortably and cost-effectively. This logic makes no sense in so many ways... So I should counter your collusus with marines because when your collusus kill my marines they will die to my vikings?
Not that this is on topic, but what he is saying is that if he chooses to strike cannon the immortals he dies to the carriers, and if he chooses to attack the carriers he gets raped by immortals. You sir are the one with incorrect logic.
Back to the thread, I'm kinda glad that flux vanes got removed, because thinking about it now there is at least a chance that this kind of strategy can work, im just trying to imagine how much rape would happen if they were speed voids instead...
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On January 16 2011 23:16 shawty wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 22:46 Armsved wrote:[B]To strike cannons: one thor is more expensive than one immortal. If one thor strike-cannons an immortal, this thor is dead vs the carriers. He won't survive to see another day. Therefore all you need is to keep the immortal-number high enough and constantly reproduce them, then you can defeat the thors comfortably and cost-effectively. This logic makes no sense in so many ways... So I should counter your collusus with marines because when your collusus kill my marines they will die to my vikings? Not that this is on topic, but what he is saying is that if he chooses to strike cannon the immortals he dies to the carriers, and if he chooses to attack the carriers he gets raped by immortals. You sir are the one with incorrect logic. Back to the thread, I'm kinda glad that flux vanes got removed, because thinking about it now there is at least a chance that this kind of strategy can work, im just trying to imagine how much rape would happen if they were speed voids instead...
If he chooses to attack carriers, he still gets raped by carriers because you're doing 12 damage a volley. :-\
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On January 16 2011 23:16 shawty wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 22:46 Armsved wrote:[B]To strike cannons: one thor is more expensive than one immortal. If one thor strike-cannons an immortal, this thor is dead vs the carriers. He won't survive to see another day. Therefore all you need is to keep the immortal-number high enough and constantly reproduce them, then you can defeat the thors comfortably and cost-effectively. This logic makes no sense in so many ways... So I should counter your collusus with marines because when your collusus kill my marines they will die to my vikings? Not that this is on topic, but what he is saying is that if he chooses to strike cannon the immortals he dies to the carriers, and if he chooses to attack the carriers he gets raped by immortals. You sir are the one with incorrect logic. Back to the thread, I'm kinda glad that flux vanes got removed, because thinking about it now there is at least a chance that this kind of strategy can work, im just trying to imagine how much rape would happen if they were speed voids instead...
But why wouldnt he just make more carriers?
Why does he have to make immortals which are slightly cheaper than thors just to get them 250mm cannoned. Its not like the terran is making a tradeoff having to choose between carrier and immortal. Its about the individual unit being costeffective against a thor. The terran will just cannon the shit out of your immortals, and even if you can clean up with your carriers you would had been better off with more carriers or VRs rather than immortals.
The logic is seriously flawed. As if im going to make banchee and helion against mass hydra, so if you chose to kill the banchee the helion will kill your hydra? Yeah well, wtf. I should have just made nothing but helions to begin with.
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I read this entire thread hoping to find an answer I am also master league and just got crushed by this even though I out upgraded out expanded and had a much larger army then the terran. The person i played got about 10 thors 5 tanks and a crap ton of vikings. Void rays are not in the slightest viable and neither are carriers. mass immortals may be viable but I don't see that as a good idea since 1 emp could make your immortals worthless not to mention 250mm cannon and immortals terrible range(4). Storm's dmg if laughable to the hp of a thor and after the battle ends repair to full and press on. Yes you can abuse the mobility of thors and trust me i did, but every fight no matter how big my army was completely one sided. Dt's are effective but laughable as terran can easily have 3 or more oc's at this point. As a side note, I miss thor feedback.
I realize probobly could have won early on, but i wanted to macro and I was checking to see if he expanded frequently. I was unaware terran had a death ball I would need 400 units to kill.
Please watch my replay as I believe my opponents use of thors and my own play were better examples of a thor builds strength.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-181480.jpg)
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Havn't tested this, but what do you people of think of countering mass thors with mass immortal + warp prism micro ?
I know warp prism get demolished by thor's AA but if they are busy using 250M cannons ...
Also, stating the obvious but, if the terran player just turtles massing thors, you have time to get a mothership. Maybe vortex can help ?
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On January 17 2011 15:33 Scaryman wrote:
I read this entire thread hoping to find an answer I am also master league and just got crushed by this even though I out upgraded out expanded and had a much larger army then the terran. The person i played got about 10 thors 5 tanks and a crap ton of vikings. Void rays are not in the slightest viable and neither are carriers. mass immortals may be viable but I don't see that as a good idea since 1 emp could make your immortals worthless not to mention 250mm cannon and immortals terrible range(4). Storm's dmg if laughable to the hp of a thor and after the battle ends repair to full and press on. Yes you can abuse the mobility of thors and trust me i did, but every fight no matter how big my army was completely one sided. Dt's are effective but laughable as terran can easily have 3 or more oc's at this point. As a side note, I miss thor feedback.
I realize probobly could have won early on, but i wanted to macro and I was checking to see if he expanded frequently. I was unaware terran had a death ball I would need 400 units to kill.
Please watch my replay as I believe my opponents use of thors and my own play were better examples of a thor builds strength.
Whoooa that was so onesided it wasn't even funny..
Does no one have any useful strategies against this?
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On January 16 2011 22:46 Armsved wrote:Show nested quote +[B]To strike cannons: one thor is more expensive than one immortal. If one thor strike-cannons an immortal, this thor is dead vs the carriers. He won't survive to see another day. Therefore all you need is to keep the immortal-number high enough and constantly reproduce them, then you can defeat the thors comfortably and cost-effectively. This logic makes no sense in so many ways... So I should counter your collusus with marines because when your collusus kill my marines they will die to my vikings?
I understand your argument, but think the other way round - you should counter my colossi with vikings, because even if all your vikings die vs stalkers, if they manage to take out all my colossi, you win with MMM 
Translate this to: even if all the immortals die, the carriers are really hard to defeat once their number is high. Regardless of unit-composition. A mech-ing terran won't be able to reinforce with marines fast enough, and carriers own vikings once they reach a critical mass.
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EPT
