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LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well.
He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.
1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat.
When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad.
These replays don't show much besides incompetent players.
edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share.
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On January 10 2011 01:52 iChau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:49 Bacon-X wrote:
^ I'll try not to, I'll see if I hit this "wall", and I will report when I do, If i will that is. The wall will be soon if you meet players that actually have a clue of what's happening within their base. Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:57 knL wrote:Iam a 2800T and in my opinion this is the most powerful cheese out there at least as T. I usually try to build 1 bunker inside my mineral line and one afterwards outside to protect my rax. But 1 little mistake and iam fucked. I think i lose at least 80% of the time. 50% from the initial cheese and the other 50% from the economical damage of the cheese. Iam pretty clueless of a effective way to stop 2 proxygate. If someone got a replay i would be happy  There's probably no way to stop the proxy 2 gate if it goes down. The reason is that zealots are so damn strong early-game because there's no concussive shells or stim. This means that zealots almost destroys everything cost-for-cost against terran. You have to scout it, pull probes off and destroy the pylon as fast as you can while sending another probe to hunt down the damn cheese probe. While the zealots are just ripping you apart, he could be macro-ing up, so you probably lost. Scouting is already hard to do though and you should be aware that there is a very high possibility of the proxy 2 gate happening if you're on a 1v1 map against protoss. Also, while destroying the pylon it's a good idea to throw down a bunker near/in the mineral line because if 2 zealots slip out it's gonna hurt. For the scouting part, I think it's a good idea to first scout with the 9 depot for the enemy base and then scout around your base and outside your base with the 13 rax scv. The bad thing about terran is scv's must stay on the building though so that sucks. Protoss just warps in and scouts. xD
That is such bad advice dealing with a double 10 gate, maybe that's what happens in Vronze but. Yes, double 10 gate will get you lots of wins, but the reason mainly is, people don't know how to respond to it. NEVER go kill the pylons/gateways.
In PvP, scout your base when you put down your gateway, you should be doing that every single game. PvP on 2p maps you'll be always doing 12 14 gateway to counter, in which both yours and his zealot comes out at the same time, and his third one is a out when you have 2. Pulling 2-4 probes to tank some damage is good. The battle will slowly go in your favor, and you should have enough money for zealots and probes continuesly.
As Terran you do have a slightly harder time. If it is in your base, which it likely will on a 2-player map make sure you're scouting your base. Your depot should see the really early probe, as that's when it arrives. Now after your 12 rax, make another rax and right when the first one finishes make a bunker in your mineral line. Marines can kite zealots. What I mean is, they take a few shots, run to the bunker, eventually toss will have to turn around so he doesn't engage the bunker, that's where you chase him. Once you build up your rine numbers you can kite zealots too.
PvZ I think holding a 2 gate is easy. With any not 14 hatch build you can simply get a spine crawler up, while the first zealot chases your probes, then just make pure ling. Add another spine, but try sneaking 6 lings out of your base to kill his mineral line. You can tech to roaches and win if you hold the initial attack, really easy. 14 hatch, you are kinda screwed unless your opponent sucks, just like a cannon rush.
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On January 10 2011 02:36 iChau wrote:LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well. He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat. When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad. These replays don't show much besides incompetent players. edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share.
Posts like this never fail to amuse me. Competent players play in tournaments and win money. 99% of the player base is not what you call competent. Sure, you can sit in your armchair quaterbacking, but just face it, diamond, even fairly high diamond, means NOTHING, and even "competent" players make stupid mistakes and lose stupid games ALL THE TIME. So bashing this guy for cheesing, saying it will never work vs a decent layer......is just ludicrous. Sure, it will have a lower success rate, but I guarantee this strat will win ~50% of the time even in fairly high diamond.
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On January 10 2011 03:00 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 02:36 iChau wrote:LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well. He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat. When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad. These replays don't show much besides incompetent players. edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share. Posts like this never fail to amuse me. Competent players play in tournaments and win money. 99% of the player base is not what you call competent. Sure, you can sit in your armchair quaterbacking, but just face it, diamond, even fairly high diamond, means NOTHING, and even "competent" players make stupid mistakes and lose stupid games ALL THE TIME. So bashing this guy for cheesing, saying it will never work vs a decent layer......is just ludicrous. Sure, it will have a lower success rate, but I guarantee this strat will win ~50% of the time even in fairly high diamond.
There's a difference between a pro player, an okay player, and a down-right terrible player, no? If a player can't stop the protoss from building a pylon and 2 gates then I guess he's down-right terrible and doesn't deserve the rank that he's assigned to.
Many "okay" players scout around 12 gateway and they will see the proxy buildings. Also, the pylon can be used as a cheese-detector. Sometimes an okay player might get distracted and lose to the proxy by luck. This is feasible, as sometimes you just forget and eh. Would it work against a player who actually scouts with 12 gateway?
Are you this Smeagol: http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/897435/Smeagol
or this: http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/920090/Smeagol
How many times have you dealt with a 2 gate in those leagues?
On January 10 2011 02:52 Skillz_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:52 iChau wrote:On January 10 2011 01:49 Bacon-X wrote:
^ I'll try not to, I'll see if I hit this "wall", and I will report when I do, If i will that is. The wall will be soon if you meet players that actually have a clue of what's happening within their base. On January 10 2011 01:57 knL wrote:Iam a 2800T and in my opinion this is the most powerful cheese out there at least as T. I usually try to build 1 bunker inside my mineral line and one afterwards outside to protect my rax. But 1 little mistake and iam fucked. I think i lose at least 80% of the time. 50% from the initial cheese and the other 50% from the economical damage of the cheese. Iam pretty clueless of a effective way to stop 2 proxygate. If someone got a replay i would be happy There's probably no way to stop the proxy 2 gate if it goes down. The reason is that zealots are so damn strong early-game because there's no concussive shells or stim. This means that zealots almost destroys everything cost-for-cost against terran. You have to scout it, pull probes off and destroy the pylon as fast as you can while sending another probe to hunt down the damn cheese probe. While the zealots are just ripping you apart, he could be macro-ing up, so you probably lost. Scouting is already hard to do though and you should be aware that there is a very high possibility of the proxy 2 gate happening if you're on a 1v1 map against protoss. Also, while destroying the pylon it's a good idea to throw down a bunker near/in the mineral line because if 2 zealots slip out it's gonna hurt. For the scouting part, I think it's a good idea to first scout with the 9 depot for the enemy base and then scout around your base and outside your base with the 13 rax scv. The bad thing about terran is scv's must stay on the building though so that sucks. Protoss just warps in and scouts. xD That is such bad advice dealing with a double 10 gate, maybe that's what happens in Vronze but. Yes, double 10 gate will get you lots of wins, but the reason mainly is, people don't know how to respond to it. NEVER go kill the pylons/gateways. In PvP, scout your base when you put down your gateway, you should be doing that every single game. PvP on 2p maps you'll be always doing 12 14 gateway to counter, in which both yours and his zealot comes out at the same time, and his third one is a out when you have 2. Pulling 2-4 probes to tank some damage is good. The battle will slowly go in your favor, and you should have enough money for zealots and probes continuesly.
Do you think 12/14 is fast enough against chrono-ed 10/10? You can "go --- kill him" after denying his proxy gateways. If the gates are already up then lol.
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In high diamond(2500+), do i rarely see proxy 2 gate in PvP. It's usually the same old bullshit cannon rushes, 4 gates, and mass colossi battles.
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I hope you use this on me, a lot. Please. Everytime we face, please use this on me, I would love the free wins.
I always scout my base to prevent proxy's like that for a reason. and god forbid you are on a large map,
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On January 10 2011 03:13 Sonic114 wrote:
In high diamond(2500+), do i rarely see proxy 2 gate in PvP. It's usually the same old bullshit cannon rushes, 4 gates, and mass colossi battles.
Uh.
On January 10 2011 03:00 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 02:36 iChau wrote:LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well. He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat. When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad. These replays don't show much besides incompetent players. edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share. Posts like this never fail to amuse me. Competent players play in tournaments and win money. 99% of the player base is not what you call competent. Sure, you can sit in your armchair quaterbacking, but just face it, diamond, even fairly high diamond, means NOTHING, and even "competent" players make stupid mistakes and lose stupid games ALL THE TIME. So bashing this guy for cheesing, saying it will never work vs a decent layer......is just ludicrous. Sure, it will have a lower success rate, but I guarantee this strat will win ~50% of the time even in fairly high diamond.
This guy says so so you can take a look. He obviously 2-gated high diamonds and won.
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Congrats for cheesing into Diamond, however you are severely skill capped right now and will most likely lose if you start playing standard.
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@iChau... It's an illusion to think that 10/10 gate is faster than 12/14 gate, as you get the money much later since you pretty much start with one less worker. If you wanna play a game Ill prove it to you. At 14 supply when you scout it you save chronoboost so you can use it on the first two zealots.
So yes, first zealot is identical time, but after that you'll be one zealot ahead. You gotta walk towards my gateways to attack which gives me an edge to build up my zealots. With 2 gates I have Eco to tech, and in the end it comes down to a unfavores micro war that you will lose.
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ok.. so first of all this is very old...
2nd... ok you are diamond.. or will be.. so? are you happy? if yes then good for you... but this doesn`t mean that you can play, the only good think with this is that you make your micro looking good for the time when you will want to do normal plays. I use this sometimes, but only in pvp and in big maps( 4 player ones). I`m not happy when i win/lose like this.. but i hate pvp. And anyhow.. pvp is:
1. 4 gate.. 4 gate or 2 gate rush is almost same difficulty.. so you don`t have to feel bad if u win with 2 gate proxy..
2.1 gate robo.. cmon.. it is normal to punish this kind of play...
3.2gate robo.. collosus long long boring games
very little other versions of pvp...: 3gate expand, zealot into DTrush, zealots VR, cannon and kinda that is it about pvp.
Anyhow when you are happy that you achiev diamond please start to play because you will forget what is a macro game.. and when you will face 2k+ diamond they will check for proxy in base and you will lose 10 games from 10.. GL dude
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On January 10 2011 03:41 jarod wrote:
Anyhow when you are happy that you achiev diamond please start to play because you will forget what is a macro game.. and when you will face 2k+ diamond they will check for proxy in base and you will lose 10 games from 10.. GL dude
I play standard builds on private 1v1s  to get better at that.
I have been facing 2K+ diamonds, who have scouted their base for proxy, found it early, and still lost. so its like... LOL!
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On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha
Sir, dont take this as flame, but blunt criticism.
Awesome, you made it to low Diamond with a single cheese build. And when that build caps out in diamond against players who actually know what they're doing, you will lose a lot more than you will win.
And 2 things will happen. You'll either quit SC2, thinking youve accomplished something and that the players who beat you dont do anything but play sc2 all day anyawys (a partial truth). Or you'll actually try playing standard. And when you start getting worked because the players you're facing have been playing standard all this time youve had your single cheese build, you rack up a nice bit of loses and get knocked down.
So, I ask you, why bother? Why not use your time wisely and invest in standard play where you're peers will actually respect your play style and you being in diamond will actually mean something when your 3k+ with a nice arsenal of builds at your disposal.
/shrugs.
Or you could just be a troll.
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France12911 Posts
On January 09 2011 13:31 Bacon-X wrote:
Well I only had the goal of getting into diamond with cheesing to see if it was possible, and yes, it was very possible.
Any protoss build will get u diamond very fast as long as you play with your two hands you know? :D
that's Protoss dude
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I've known about this build for awhile, never tried it out until today. It turns out to be extremely effective, hell, it works even if you build a few extra probes.
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On January 10 2011 03:47 Afterhours wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha Sir, dont take this as flame, but blunt criticism. Awesome, you made it to low Diamond with a single cheese build. And when that build caps out in diamond against players who actually know what they're doing, you will lose a lot more than you will win. And 2 things will happen. You'll either quit SC2, thinking youve accomplished something and that the players who beat you dont do anything but play sc2 all day anyawys (a partial truth). Or you'll actually try playing standard. And when you start getting worked because the players you're facing have been playing standard all this time youve had your single cheese build, you rack up a nice bit of loses and get knocked down. /shrugs. Or you could just be a troll.
Woah Woah Woah, Read my signature not about to quit starcraft, been my favorite game since I laid my hands on it about 6 years ago when I started playing broodwar. Yeah sc2 is a pretty cool game. And you're right, I'm playing standard builds with my diamond friends who are trying to help me get better right now, so dont worry about me too much hehe I'll be good one day 
This whole post was to prove something to the world. Anyone can get into diamond with this strategy. Have fun peoples.
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For all those who say this is bad for the OP in the long run (from a lets-get-legitimately-good stand point) are dead wrong.
Again for from the stand point of being a better player...
If you had the chance to practice with Idra or some noob in bronze what would be your choice?
What would be more productive?
My suggestion to new players is to cheese your way out of poop slinging that goes on in the lower leagues up to at least platinum. Then start mixing in some macro games and watching replays of your lost games. Because your up against better players, you will learn more from your opponents.
Finally a good lesson for all of us is to freaking scout! Losing to cheese almost always happens when i didn't check that dark spot for a proxy or scouted to late or too lazy.
That fact that OP was able to get into diamond (grats btw) seems very telling about how even mediocre players don't scout properly or enough.
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The execution of 2 gates differs between players and even though it's a cheese, it still does require some skill to pull off. I've seen high level players use this in tournaments and they can pretty much transition well after it fails and yes the opponent is also good enough to make it fail.
This also reflects the standard of the diamond league. It still needs to be refined as there are so many 1 build wonders in Diamond. Probably a reason why there's going to be a Master League.
@Bacon-X ... would you like to practice this build with me? I'd sure like to be able to at least know what to do when I face this. I mean losing because you missed it is okay we can blame it on the scouting .. but to lose it even after scouting just means not knowing how to handle the cheese. And I'm sure there are plenty of correct methods to handle this type of cheese when scouted.
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On January 10 2011 03:47 Bacon-X wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 03:41 jarod wrote:
Anyhow when you are happy that you achiev diamond please start to play because you will forget what is a macro game.. and when you will face 2k+ diamond they will check for proxy in base and you will lose 10 games from 10.. GL dude I play standard builds on private 1v1s to get better at that. I have been facing 2K+ diamonds, who have scouted their base for proxy, found it early, and still lost. so its like... LOL!
Um, didn't I point out what that diamond did wrong?
On January 10 2011 03:41 Skillz_Man wrote:
@iChau... It's an illusion to think that 10/10 gate is faster than 12/14 gate, as you get the money much later since you pretty much start with one less worker. If you wanna play a game Ill prove it to you. At 14 supply when you scout it you save chronoboost so you can use it on the first two zealots.
So yes, first zealot is identical time, but after that you'll be one zealot ahead. You gotta walk towards my gateways to attack which gives me an edge to build up my zealots. With 2 gates I have Eco to tech, and in the end it comes down to a unfavores micro war that you will lose.
I'll try to get the timings. 10/10/10 is just making probes while gateways are warping in, and 12/14 chrono-boosts at 11 and 13.
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this guy is obviously a troll. there is no way someone is serious about thinking they discovered the proxy 2 gate
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On January 09 2011 05:10 Bacon-X wrote:
=P!!!!!!!
Is this the online equivalent of blowing a raspberry?
And congrats on reaching diamond! Could you also write a guide for 6 pooling? I think that would be another valuable contribution that would be very well received.
edit: of course you may want to let someone else handle it as it's a bit of an advanced strategy and changing races at the diamond level can be difficult
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EPT
