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Been getting some world class BM for doing this but I thought I should share this with the teamliquid community. So, as funny as it is, I was bronze only 3 days ago. Just yesterday I got Platinum. Currently I'm being matched against diamonds and I am winning with this strategy so I'm expecting to be Diamond some time soon. So what's the strat?
- Send probes to mine, train another probe (of course)
- Immediately send a probe to enemy's base
- Keep training probes until you get to 10/10
- At 10/10 Build pylon INSIDE your opponents base (preferably in a corner where he can't see you)
- 10/10 Save up, Build a gateway
- 10/10 Keep saving, Build another gateway
- As soon as gateway is finished chronoboost a zealot
- Keep chronoboosting and pumping out your zealots
- Micro well... I normally go for his workers first, to prevent him from mining minerals.
I've had much success with this build. (More wins then losses). It is very risky, I must mention, you won't always win. On the plus side, It's funny when u win =D (which is most of the time).
I want your guys' opinions on this build and comments. And don't just say "Cheese rush noob". LOL! Don't expect people not to cheese if you can't prevent it yourself.
And yes. Anybody, any noob in existence, can use this strat to cheese his way into diamond like I am right now. =P!!!!!!!
Here is the replay of the last game I just finished playing right now using this strategy:
http://www.mediafire.com/?j41csp6u7atgm96
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If I see a scout that early I will definitely check on it and scout on 9 and realize you are cheesing before a gateway is put up. If it doesn't get scouted at all, then it's pretty good as far as I can tell, especially if you can wall in your pylon but even if you do manage to get it up if he scouts it while your gateways are building, he can throw up two of his own, kill you with probes and zealots and then you are pretty screwed. Main issue with cheesing to diamond is that, while it can work, few diamonds will get fooled by this and if you were bronze three days ago you could probably get out macro'd by a silver.
Edit: Just watched the replay. Way to try to distract him with talk. You're an ass.
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I chuckled a bit reading this post.
I sir, apologize to let you know that most players have used a double 10gate before.
It's strong at all levels of play but after a certain point, it will become a coin flip with you losing more than winning.
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Boring as the universe.
But actually, this is indeed quite strong in some maps isnt it?
Qxc was qqing about this in his stream some days ago. He defended pretty well with a bunker in the right place and some good micro (lost 1 or 2 scvs) but he couldnt do anything as soon as a Stalker poped out of the gateway... And it wasnt so all-insh, with only 1 gateway and not cutting many probes, but still worked pretty well in Blistering (hate this map =x).
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Russian Federation1132 Posts
U'd better search for Proxy (mb + gateways) and u would be glad to see, that a lot of topics with similar content already exist.
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Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha
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On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha
Those are probably 500 point diamond players. Decent players will scout around their base at a certain point. I scout the base in 1v1 maps with a 13 gate, and in 4 player maps I scout with a 16 pylon.
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I hate these kinds of builds as zerg. Zerglings are just so bad against a couple zealots, and even if I scout it, I can't make enough zerglings or spine crawlers to actually stop it.
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Nope. Just checked. 1000+ points diamond players 
Checked even more, also 2000+ points diamond players haha slaughtered em all
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On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha
and this is where you realize how little being in diamond means
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On January 09 2011 12:25 Bacon-X wrote:Nope. Just checked. 1000+ points diamond players Checked even more, also 2000+ points diamond players haha slaughtered em all
Replays please.
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It's better to block the pylon with two gates. But other than that, you can win easily if your opponent is retarded.
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On January 09 2011 12:43 mizU wrote:
It's better to block the pylon with two gates. But other than that, you can win easily if your opponent is retarded.
This. I don't get why 2000+ diamonds don't scout. 2000 is probably low-diamond now.
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Just like oGsInCa v sanZenith recently, if you go about a proxy and dont get scouted you most often will win - its not breaking news :p
I would have though most diamond players, especially on the ladder, have been stung enough by bunker and cannon/gateway proxies that they would never let a scouting scv go un-harassed or fail toc heck their base and natural areas...
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the question is, why would you want to cheese yourself into diamond? sooner or later you want to actually play and learn the game and then you are fucked cause you are just not on the same level with those guys in a straight up game
anyway in any pvp i scout heavily for stuff like this, if you scout it early its easy to defend. bo is nothing new and wide spread
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Is this against Protoss only? Or can be used effectively against Terran and/or Zerg? I would assume the Terrans have the best chance to defend since they can build a bunker.
Also in your replay the Protoss did not scout with his 9th pylon probe. He would have noticed the cheese a lot sooner giving him the chance to defend better.
Regards,
Petrina.
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i win with this build and im almost 3k on diamond! its especially powerful on 4player maps where you build in the center
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On January 09 2011 05:35 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Older than the universe.
+1
Yea, this is old..
User was warned for this post
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ancient build, still effective, although doing it in someone's base against good players just doesn't work, except maybe jb cause the base is so ridiculously big and there is another ramp to hide it down
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if they see it before the gateway is finished a few well placed cannons will tear this to shreads- not only are you way behind Eco wise but your gateways will fall as well- i have seen a player go 10 gate forge which can be really nasty trying to hold off and is a little stronger actually trying to deal with a cannon rush and a zealot rush at the same time
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Replays please.
I have one in the first post. But I'll upload another one right now...
Here.. Another replay but it's vs. Terran this time:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0g25k3z3ig7p2lz
This. I don't get why 2000+ diamonds don't scout. 2000 is probably low-diamond now.
Nope... 2000 is high - mid diamond :/
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You must be playing against terrible diamonds because most people cant get away with that past bronze.
tell them to lern2scout
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Last 50 or so games have been won Mr. MOAR pylons 
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this is the most revolutionary new build i have ever seen... you build things at their base... to attack FASTER??? Wow srsly who could think of this. That building probes trick u have is rly neat 2, sometimes if the guy gets like 7 or 8 he can rly outproduce u.
sincerely hope this was a troll post.
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On January 09 2011 13:10 Bacon-X wrote: Nope... 2000 is high - mid diamond :/
Oh lord stop priding yourself for proxy gating. 2000 diamond is LOW. It WAS high in june of 2010, but standards inflate, and mid diamond players are now found in the 2400 point range, you don't get high until you reach 2800.
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Oh my bad dude, I thought rank 27 was mid >_> didn't know what u mean. Evidence that I am a NOOB in DIAMOND. lmao!!! that's why i love myself right now
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On January 09 2011 13:10 Bacon-X wrote:I have one in the first post. But I'll upload another one right now... Here.. Another replay but it's vs. Terran this time: http://www.mediafire.com/?0g25k3z3ig7p2lzShow nested quote +This. I don't get why 2000+ diamonds don't scout. 2000 is probably low-diamond now. Nope... 2000 is high - mid diamond :/
#1) 2k is basically the score you get from using your bonus pool. In no way is it "high-mid" diamond as you suggest.
#2) You really need to be so excited about being in diamond. All this does is encourage lower level players to cheese and point out the easiness of getting into diamond.
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On January 09 2011 13:10 Bacon-X wrote:Show nested quote +This. I don't get why 2000+ diamonds don't scout. 2000 is probably low-diamond now. Nope... 2000 is high - mid diamond :/
2000 is dirt low. There have been over 2000 bonus points, so 2000 means you've lost more points than you've earned (or you have a pool), 2.5k is averagish for TL players. 3k is high.
Anyway. There are variations of this too. On SOW I do the MC 7 pylon 8 gate, which isn't all in (you'll either cost them mining time or do damage, so you'll come out ahead). Then there was Inca's Metal build where you scout close air fast, if they are there you proxy a forge and a gateway and laugh at the rage.
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Even the greatest SC2 players will fall to cheese, this is nothing new. You can be a 4000+ D-player and fall for this. The thing is that if you play the same person once again you will be toast as this is the only effective build you seem to do. Naturally it is not wrong to cheese, people who will tell u differently are simply not efficient enough to understand that cheese is a part of SC and always has been. However, what have you learned from cheesing into diamond? Nothing really and this tactic is a double edge sword. As u get nearer and nearer the top, you will meet more and more players you have played before and they will remember you I am quite sure 
Ergo, what you do is simply cheese without becoming actually good. Sure you might take down even the greatest player, but you will only do so once and anyone can do that. Another question is also, will this kind of play really be food for thought as u age with this game?
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Well I only had the goal of getting into diamond with cheesing to see if it was possible, and yes, it was very possible. But don't get me wrong, I'm gonna do standard builds and get better with those as well... Cheese rushing is just fast and easy wins, convenient for moving up the ladder xD
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Quite honestly, it's pretty pathetic.
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I don't understand why people just try to cheese all th way to diamond...
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On January 09 2011 13:31 Bacon-X wrote:
Well I only had the goal of getting into diamond with cheesing to see if it was possible, and yes, it was very possible. But don't get me wrong, I'm gonna do standard builds and get better with those as well... Cheese rushing is just fast and easy wins, convenient for moving up the ladder xD
Naturally you will do what you think is best, but a word to the wise. Who will stand a better chance to survive in nature. One who has survived its trails and gotten to the top of the food chain or the one who has been thrown into the middle of the jungle? Same thing goes for SC, you may be a Olympic swimmer, but if you are thrown in the water with the sharks, they are going to win. Anyway, I wish you luck in your gaming future.
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This build is so old they even have a "how to defend against this build" in the single player challenge missions... lol can't believe ppl lose to this...
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How is this an accomplishment? There's people who 6-pool every game into diamond, and it works, get off your high horse.
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Dude... It's FUNNY that's why... and plus i'm just having a good time... Don't try to put me down xD!!!
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youll soon realize that when you play standard later youll get roflstomped by actually decent diamonds and probably get demoted to platinum because you have no basic understanding of the game besides proxy 2 gate
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Even though this is really old, kudos if you thought that out yourself (without outside knowledge).
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congratulations on understanding the difficult concept of cheese
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its shocking that you can be successful with cheese at such a high level.
good luck when you try a real build, you'll lose that diamond ranking pretty quickly.
i just lost a significant amount of respect for the league system...
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On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha
Although you've reached your goal in diamond, I figure it will probably become a problem to stay in diamond you probably won't proxy 2 gate EVERY single game forever and your original skill was bronze. Also, yes, this sort of build has been around forever and has been done since beta
EDIT: BTW, after reading the rest of the thread, let's not flame the guy. He just made diamond and he's happy about it. And @author: people around here don't take too kindly to cheese especially when it's done over and over and over
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2k diamond is very very low diamond. 2500-2900 is mid-high diamond. Congrtz on making it to diamond and you should enjoy the feeling. Since once you hit a wall where people actually knows how to counter this you will be force to resort to using a differnet strategy and since your skill level is that of a bronze, you feeling of joy will disappear as fast as they appeared. The wall should be soon. I am assuming around 2500 at MOST you will begin to see probably be at 50-50 win ratio. Just wanted to warm you of the future that beholds you :p. The only way you will be able to maintain your win ratio and stay in diamond if you continue to use this strategy.
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On January 09 2011 13:47 Bacon-X wrote:
Dude... It's FUNNY that's why... and plus i'm just having a good time... Don't try to put me down xD!!!
Yes, we're all glad you're having fun. Go play against the computer on very easy and use this strategy if you want to have fun. It's sad that people still use this on the ladder. Eventually you'll hit a wall and end up back in Bronze where you belong.
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just like 95% of all tosses. why would you want to be in diamond with no xp of playing games longer than 5minutes, it just goes to show how easy it is to get into diamond with cheese+toss. i've seen this build hundreds of times i probley died to it a handful of times on my part messing up. if thats all you can do is cheese i would definatly get the lube ready for when you start going up in point it may be painful
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On January 09 2011 12:50 Nukm_ wrote:
the question is, why would you want to cheese yourself into diamond? sooner or later you want to actually play and learn the game and then you are fucked cause you are just not on the same level with those guys in a straight up game
The thing is... if you were a bronze-skill level player and you wanted to get better at the game, you'll improve faster by playing against diamonds that you will by playing against other bronze players. (see the many, many TL posts about "I can't get out of bronze because my opponents don't make sense!").
The OP will definitely lose a lot of games when he decides to play straight up, but I'm sure he knew this price going in.ll.
And to the posts that were all like "but what's the point, diamond doesn't mean anything anyway!?": Unfortunately, it does. No one will respect you (on this forum or anywhere else) if you're not. Just look at the number of times the other leagues are used in a derogatory fashion, everything from "get back to bronze league" to "that might work in platinum but good luck in the real world" I'm sure both are seen here dozens of times a day. So OP might have a very real, out-of-game reason for wanting that icon: For one thing it means he can read forums without feeling belittled.
Sorry but it seemed everyone was ganging up on OP because he set himself a goal and achieved it, and was happy about it. Mostly you're just unhappy because you don't want this story to be possible (neither do I, really!), but that's not a reason to take it out on the OP.
Good job OP! 
[edit: I don't know whether OP cares about forums or not, edited grammar to reflect that]
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On January 09 2011 14:41 Paradice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:50 Nukm_ wrote:
the question is, why would you want to cheese yourself into diamond? sooner or later you want to actually play and learn the game and then you are fucked cause you are just not on the same level with those guys in a straight up game
"I can't get out of bronze because my opponents don't make sense!").
You know, I used to believe that. I started scouting a ton more, and regardless of whether or not they make sense: they have to have production structures and their army has to be sitting somewhere. I realized that parking an overseer, observer, or scanning are 3 easy ways to find out all of the information you need without having to guess. As my APM improves, I am able to move a changeling, observer, or fit in a scan without stopping my macro. I actually just make sure that every minute or so I am doing something to make them reveal their plan. Poking at the front with a unit or two always works wonders for army composition.
I used to lose in bronze to the 2-gate rush but early scouting can make this push unbelievably easy to stop. It all comes down to scouting.
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On January 09 2011 14:31 TrANCE, wrote:
just like 95% of all tosses. why would you want to be in diamond with no xp of playing games longer than 5minutes, it just goes to show how easy it is to get into diamond with cheese+toss. i've seen this build hundreds of times i probley died to it a handful of times on my part messing up. if thats all you can do is cheese i would definatly get the lube ready for when you start going up in point it may be painful
You can get into diamond 2 raxing, 6 pooling, and Banshee rushing too. Its not only toss, its the state of the game that all-ins are GOOD for all races (less so for zerg). Moreover, at lower skill levels games don't last as long. The better you are the better you are at not losing to early pressure, so until you get up a ways you won't get long macro games.
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I guess you can always use something like this to win... but it doesn't really prove anything or gain you much, GJ your in diamond... but you would lose to every single one of them if you tried to verse them normally.
Most people actually scout around there base more proactively then the person in that replay, I am not concerned about the amount of people who do proxies, because I have learnt how to scout them, and how to counter them do to the need to do so. If i were to find you on the ladder I would be glad for the free win.
****
BUT I now realize why you might do this, yes you are going to lose a lot IF you ever want to play normally, but you will definitely improve very fast because you are playing against people of high caliber. Maybe you should just see how long it takes to get to the 'wall' that you cant brake, turn into normal mode, and try to stay in diamond.
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Gratz for reaching your goal and getting in to diamond by absolute cheese.
Honestly, it just goes to show how cheesy SC2's early game can be. It's absolutely pathetic that someone can move up 4 leagues and defeat better players with one super cheesy all-in tactic.
It seriously makes me question the core fundamentals of the game.
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An ActionJesus is born. =p
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@Proximo
I would say the fundamental that is getting abused by this proxy gate is scouting, if you scout for cheese you will find it, the hard-counter to most "cheeses" are getting scouted, so scout harder/better and this stuff will not happen
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^True that. Blame must go on the player for lack of scouting
However, an auto-win 4 minutes into a game is a pretty big reward simply becasue someone didn't scout thoroughly enough.
That replay honestly made me want to puke, pathetic that you can end a game that fast against someone who is better then you are.
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thank you for this build OP. I'm pretty terrible at the game in general but with this build and playing protoss I am dominating 2000+ diamond players the majority of the time like you said.
went all the way from silver to diamond today with protoss.
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The best way to counter this is obviously if u don't see a pylon at his, throw up a forge and a cannon
When ever playing PVP i always place my pylon and gateway next to each other, one 'cannon' spot away, so if i am proxyed i can wall off a cannon rather easily with the forge and another plyon
This is the most effective way and you can still mine gas to tech
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Lol I thought up this build after playing for like 40 mins, then realised it was lame and ruined me for later since I was out of my level in macro and mid late game strat.
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Good luck actually playing 1v1 now Bacon-X. I predict that when you finally decide to start playing without cheesing, you will have a long and painful loss streak back into bronze league.
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there are a lot of variations on 2gate, right? 10/10 proxied (somewhere in the open), 10/10 in-base, 10/10 in opponent's base (for 2-player maps), 10/12, 12/13. give some thought as to when each of these choices makes sense, and you will have slightly more refined cheese.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?&q=proxy gate
seems like this is relevant... not sure why this is still open after 3 pages, but really... there's nothing new offered here and no substance really.
It's great that we understand how watered down diamond is and will be until the next ladder reset. Naturally the top 20% of a game played by millions isn't going to mean that much.
To the OP,
If you want to become a good player, you need to formulate real strategies. Double proxy gate, while not as good as it was before zealot build time was increased 5 seconds, is still enough to get you into the highest league right now, and it's a quick win.
That said, you're committing to a strategy that only works against a bad player you should be beating with normal play. It might be fun, and I suppose it's worth doing if it gets you wins, but really you should be trying to become a better player, rather than wasting all this time cheesing 100% of games.
Against players who scout before 20 supply, your strategy is auto-loss. So when you plateau (surprised you haven't already) you're going to plateau hard.
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This is really, really sad..
Before the existence of the SC2 pages, the average TLer was a heck of a lot smarter and intelligent than nowadays.
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to OP: i think 9 pylon 9 gate is a better build. you can transition into a macro game very easily if u keep pumping probes after your build your gate. it's especially deadly against terran if you're smart and manage your tech/economy well while microing zealots around.
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On January 09 2011 13:47 Bacon-X wrote:
Dude... It's FUNNY that's why... and plus i'm just having a good time... Don't try to put me down xD!!!
How old are you? You are carrying on like a little child.
You might make out that it's funny but deep down you are sad because you know that while you appear to be diamond, you are in actual fact a Bronze player.
It's like being praised by your family and friends for a test you cheated on. It just doesn't feel right and deep down you know it was wrong....
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On January 09 2011 18:34 Snookemz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 13:47 Bacon-X wrote:
Dude... It's FUNNY that's why... and plus i'm just having a good time... Don't try to put me down xD!!! How old are you? You are carrying on like a little child. You might make out that it's funny but deep down you are sad because you know that while you appear to be diamond, you are in actual fact a Bronze player. It's like being praised by your family and friends for a test you cheated on. It just doesn't feel right and deep down you know it was wrong....
What if this is the norm for diamond? Then he is actually in fact a diamond player.
Besides, why macro, when you can cheese for the same results. I'd only tell him to stop cheesing and learn the game if we where talking about sc1 because thats the game where cheese is weak.
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scouting is key even in diamond.
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I find this discussion very interesting as I'm a player who's in silver (although I very rarely get to play so the occasional loss severely hurts my chances of getting promoted) and was in gold prior to switching races. Being in the lower leagues you see this kind of thing all the time, the all-ins, the proxies, the rushes, etc. I find it interesting that people say that you can just rush or proxy your way into diamond because I feel that most people in the lower leagues are actually used to and fairly proficient at holding these off.
Most games I face are long drawn out macro games (although I'm zerg so I force it to be) and after watching a lot of replays here looking for help I feel that a lot of gold and silver players tend to be on par with platinum and low diamond players (decent macro, apm 85-100+) and I'm amazed that this diluted diamond league phenomenon is still going on. Anyone trying to get out of the lower league eventually faces others that are also above the average skill level of the league and because these will generally result in a 50-50 chance of winning, no one advances and you have these people who are top of their division, have a lot of games logged, and are way better than everyone else who isn't in the same spot they're in.
I guess my point to the OP is, good luck trying to cheese in the lower leagues because I think having the attitude that people are in the lower leagues don't know what they're doing or can't play might disappoint you. Most people like me just didn't mind learning to play on ladder and accumulating a bunch of losses both facing cheese and just experimenting with stuff.
Sorry if this is off topic a little, but everyone's discussing something else anyways.
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scouting is key, but, hate to say it, I have seen QXC lose to proxy 2 gate and cannon rush--on his stream of course. Both times he scouted it. IMO, the problem with these builds is that the community has not found a really effective way of dealing with them, a way that has the same success as the strategies themselves. i see many people say 'just scout', but i think that the power of these toss cheeses is that they often succeed even when scouted.
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Doing 2 gate to diamond is not helping your macro skills. If it doesn't completely kill him your not going to know what to do with your advantage. I've held off unscouted 2 gates at grave prices only to clear my base and I'm being hit by their next attack. The 4 gate. They have a plan with their build, a next step because they know how to macro. I'm 2600 Diamond and I still lose to 2 gates. =P
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On January 10 2011 00:20 homeless_guy wrote:
scouting is key, but, hate to say it, I have seen QXC lose to proxy 2 gate and cannon rush--on his stream of course. Both times he scouted it. IMO, the problem with these builds is that the community has not found a really effective way of dealing with them, a way that has the same success as the strategies themselves. i see many people say 'just scout', but i think that the power of these toss cheeses is that they often succeed even when scouted.
Cannon rush? How does a Terran lose against a cannon rush?
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On January 10 2011 00:49 ForTheDr3am wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 00:20 homeless_guy wrote:
scouting is key, but, hate to say it, I have seen QXC lose to proxy 2 gate and cannon rush--on his stream of course. Both times he scouted it. IMO, the problem with these builds is that the community has not found a really effective way of dealing with them, a way that has the same success as the strategies themselves. i see many people say 'just scout', but i think that the power of these toss cheeses is that they often succeed even when scouted. Cannon rush? How does a Terran lose against a cannon rush?
They wall themselves behind your mineral mine on xelnaga.
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On January 09 2011 12:30 5ahj4g wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha and this is where you realize how little being in diamond means
This. 2000 diamond means nothing. Points in this game mean nothing either. I'm around 1700 diamond and get matched against 2700+ diamonds all the time, and I very rarely lose to them. Only because they have 800 games played more than me doesn't mean they know how to play.
@OP: This strategy is very old, you can find it on the liquipedia. I'd suggest you to change strategy, because decent players (and i'm not talking about points there) will crush you 100% of the time. You can always use it and be happy because you win more than you lose, but what fun is that?
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I play against 2600-2700 guys and in pvp this build work wonders instead of dealing with 4 gate every single game
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Yeah.. Sorry if i upset some of you who are calling me "a child"... Lol... Yeah don't worry guys I knew what I was going into before I decided to set my goal to cheese myself into diamond. I mean mission accomplished so I don't care about any losses from this point on. Also I have quite a few diamond league level friends to practice 1v1s regular before I go into ladder with normal strategies. So thanks a lot guys interesting thread it was!
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Great strategy. Takes more than just A-move to execute. Is there anything to discuss about it (and i don't mean the whining)? YES THERE IS.
I am disappointed by the lack of quality in OP's post. This is a strategy forum, it should now be the point of the thread to analyse every single matchup, opening, and follow through so that the build can be further refined from just pylon gate gate zealot++++.
Now that the build has a proven win rate with pros doing it as well, it needs to be analysed in depth and studied to maximum effect. Without this analysis, it's just a 'look I'm diamond herp derp' post in the wrong forum.
Don't disappoint me OP.
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^ I'll try not to, I'll see if I hit this "wall", and I will report when I do, If i will that is.
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On January 10 2011 01:49 Bacon-X wrote:
^ I'll try not to, I'll see if I hit this "wall", and I will report when I do, If i will that is.
The wall will be soon if you meet players that actually have a clue of what's happening within their base.
On January 10 2011 01:57 knL wrote:Iam a 2800T and in my opinion this is the most powerful cheese out there at least as T. I usually try to build 1 bunker inside my mineral line and one afterwards outside to protect my rax. But 1 little mistake and iam fucked. I think i lose at least 80% of the time. 50% from the initial cheese and the other 50% from the economical damage of the cheese. Iam pretty clueless of a effective way to stop 2 proxygate. If someone got a replay i would be happy
There's probably no way to stop the proxy 2 gate if it goes down. The reason is that zealots are so damn strong early-game because there's no concussive shells or stim. This means that zealots almost destroys everything cost-for-cost against terran.
You have to scout it, pull probes off and destroy the pylon as fast as you can while sending another probe to hunt down the damn cheese probe. While the zealots are just ripping you apart, he could be macro-ing up, so you probably lost.
Scouting is already hard to do though and you should be aware that there is a very high possibility of the proxy 2 gate happening if you're on a 1v1 map against protoss.
Also, while destroying the pylon it's a good idea to throw down a bunker near/in the mineral line because if 2 zealots slip out it's gonna hurt.
For the scouting part, I think it's a good idea to first scout with the 9 depot for the enemy base and then scout around your base and outside your base with the 13 rax scv. The bad thing about terran is scv's must stay on the building though so that sucks. Protoss just warps in and scouts. xD
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Iam a 2800T and in my opinion this is the most powerful cheese out there at least as T. I usually try to build 1 bunker inside my mineral line and one afterwards outside to protect my rax. But 1 little mistake and iam fucked. I think i lose at least 80% of the time. 50% from the initial cheese and the other 50% from the economical damage of the cheese.
Iam pretty clueless of a effective way to stop 2 proxygate. If someone got a replay i would be happy
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Watching replay. Will edit when done.
edit: That was literally dumb. The opponent did not respond correctly at all.
He throws up a cannon despite the fact that a zealot is almost complete. He could've EASILY pulled his probes and destroy the warping gateways before they completed.
Why would anyone try to throw up a cannon when there is 2 gateways almost complete within your base? There's NOTHING defending the gateways besides 1 probe. Haha, scary.
Also, this guy is only 1000 diamond, I'd like to see it working against 2k diamonds.
I don't see how some players don't expect cheese and instead want maximum mining time, that is very risky against cheese. I think it's actually a good idea to put the pylon where you would normally wall off (power field touching ramp) so that you can see the probe going in.
You don't have to necessarily wall in, because you can place the buildings away from the ramp. Yes, the pylon is vulnerable, but what can kill it until late-game? By the time a zealot is coming to your base from his own to attack, you can easily have a zealot and a stalker on the way due to travel distance.
The pylon is there just there as a cheese-detector and has saved me many times.
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great build! you'll win a lot at diamond level, but then the higher diamond people will easily know how to respond and teach you some manners, then you'll quit the game. =(
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LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well.
He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.
1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat.
When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad.
These replays don't show much besides incompetent players.
edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share.
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On January 10 2011 01:52 iChau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:49 Bacon-X wrote:
^ I'll try not to, I'll see if I hit this "wall", and I will report when I do, If i will that is. The wall will be soon if you meet players that actually have a clue of what's happening within their base. Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:57 knL wrote:Iam a 2800T and in my opinion this is the most powerful cheese out there at least as T. I usually try to build 1 bunker inside my mineral line and one afterwards outside to protect my rax. But 1 little mistake and iam fucked. I think i lose at least 80% of the time. 50% from the initial cheese and the other 50% from the economical damage of the cheese. Iam pretty clueless of a effective way to stop 2 proxygate. If someone got a replay i would be happy There's probably no way to stop the proxy 2 gate if it goes down. The reason is that zealots are so damn strong early-game because there's no concussive shells or stim. This means that zealots almost destroys everything cost-for-cost against terran. You have to scout it, pull probes off and destroy the pylon as fast as you can while sending another probe to hunt down the damn cheese probe. While the zealots are just ripping you apart, he could be macro-ing up, so you probably lost. Scouting is already hard to do though and you should be aware that there is a very high possibility of the proxy 2 gate happening if you're on a 1v1 map against protoss. Also, while destroying the pylon it's a good idea to throw down a bunker near/in the mineral line because if 2 zealots slip out it's gonna hurt. For the scouting part, I think it's a good idea to first scout with the 9 depot for the enemy base and then scout around your base and outside your base with the 13 rax scv. The bad thing about terran is scv's must stay on the building though so that sucks. Protoss just warps in and scouts. xD
That is such bad advice dealing with a double 10 gate, maybe that's what happens in Vronze but. Yes, double 10 gate will get you lots of wins, but the reason mainly is, people don't know how to respond to it. NEVER go kill the pylons/gateways.
In PvP, scout your base when you put down your gateway, you should be doing that every single game. PvP on 2p maps you'll be always doing 12 14 gateway to counter, in which both yours and his zealot comes out at the same time, and his third one is a out when you have 2. Pulling 2-4 probes to tank some damage is good. The battle will slowly go in your favor, and you should have enough money for zealots and probes continuesly.
As Terran you do have a slightly harder time. If it is in your base, which it likely will on a 2-player map make sure you're scouting your base. Your depot should see the really early probe, as that's when it arrives. Now after your 12 rax, make another rax and right when the first one finishes make a bunker in your mineral line. Marines can kite zealots. What I mean is, they take a few shots, run to the bunker, eventually toss will have to turn around so he doesn't engage the bunker, that's where you chase him. Once you build up your rine numbers you can kite zealots too.
PvZ I think holding a 2 gate is easy. With any not 14 hatch build you can simply get a spine crawler up, while the first zealot chases your probes, then just make pure ling. Add another spine, but try sneaking 6 lings out of your base to kill his mineral line. You can tech to roaches and win if you hold the initial attack, really easy. 14 hatch, you are kinda screwed unless your opponent sucks, just like a cannon rush.
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On January 10 2011 02:36 iChau wrote:LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well. He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat. When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad. These replays don't show much besides incompetent players. edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share.
Posts like this never fail to amuse me. Competent players play in tournaments and win money. 99% of the player base is not what you call competent. Sure, you can sit in your armchair quaterbacking, but just face it, diamond, even fairly high diamond, means NOTHING, and even "competent" players make stupid mistakes and lose stupid games ALL THE TIME. So bashing this guy for cheesing, saying it will never work vs a decent layer......is just ludicrous. Sure, it will have a lower success rate, but I guarantee this strat will win ~50% of the time even in fairly high diamond.
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On January 10 2011 03:00 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 02:36 iChau wrote:LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well. He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat. When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad. These replays don't show much besides incompetent players. edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share. Posts like this never fail to amuse me. Competent players play in tournaments and win money. 99% of the player base is not what you call competent. Sure, you can sit in your armchair quaterbacking, but just face it, diamond, even fairly high diamond, means NOTHING, and even "competent" players make stupid mistakes and lose stupid games ALL THE TIME. So bashing this guy for cheesing, saying it will never work vs a decent layer......is just ludicrous. Sure, it will have a lower success rate, but I guarantee this strat will win ~50% of the time even in fairly high diamond.
There's a difference between a pro player, an okay player, and a down-right terrible player, no? If a player can't stop the protoss from building a pylon and 2 gates then I guess he's down-right terrible and doesn't deserve the rank that he's assigned to.
Many "okay" players scout around 12 gateway and they will see the proxy buildings. Also, the pylon can be used as a cheese-detector. Sometimes an okay player might get distracted and lose to the proxy by luck. This is feasible, as sometimes you just forget and eh. Would it work against a player who actually scouts with 12 gateway?
Are you this Smeagol: http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/897435/Smeagol
or this: http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/920090/Smeagol
How many times have you dealt with a 2 gate in those leagues?
On January 10 2011 02:52 Skillz_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:52 iChau wrote:On January 10 2011 01:49 Bacon-X wrote:
^ I'll try not to, I'll see if I hit this "wall", and I will report when I do, If i will that is. The wall will be soon if you meet players that actually have a clue of what's happening within their base. On January 10 2011 01:57 knL wrote:Iam a 2800T and in my opinion this is the most powerful cheese out there at least as T. I usually try to build 1 bunker inside my mineral line and one afterwards outside to protect my rax. But 1 little mistake and iam fucked. I think i lose at least 80% of the time. 50% from the initial cheese and the other 50% from the economical damage of the cheese. Iam pretty clueless of a effective way to stop 2 proxygate. If someone got a replay i would be happy There's probably no way to stop the proxy 2 gate if it goes down. The reason is that zealots are so damn strong early-game because there's no concussive shells or stim. This means that zealots almost destroys everything cost-for-cost against terran. You have to scout it, pull probes off and destroy the pylon as fast as you can while sending another probe to hunt down the damn cheese probe. While the zealots are just ripping you apart, he could be macro-ing up, so you probably lost. Scouting is already hard to do though and you should be aware that there is a very high possibility of the proxy 2 gate happening if you're on a 1v1 map against protoss. Also, while destroying the pylon it's a good idea to throw down a bunker near/in the mineral line because if 2 zealots slip out it's gonna hurt. For the scouting part, I think it's a good idea to first scout with the 9 depot for the enemy base and then scout around your base and outside your base with the 13 rax scv. The bad thing about terran is scv's must stay on the building though so that sucks. Protoss just warps in and scouts. xD That is such bad advice dealing with a double 10 gate, maybe that's what happens in Vronze but. Yes, double 10 gate will get you lots of wins, but the reason mainly is, people don't know how to respond to it. NEVER go kill the pylons/gateways. In PvP, scout your base when you put down your gateway, you should be doing that every single game. PvP on 2p maps you'll be always doing 12 14 gateway to counter, in which both yours and his zealot comes out at the same time, and his third one is a out when you have 2. Pulling 2-4 probes to tank some damage is good. The battle will slowly go in your favor, and you should have enough money for zealots and probes continuesly.
Do you think 12/14 is fast enough against chrono-ed 10/10? You can "go --- kill him" after denying his proxy gateways. If the gates are already up then lol.
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In high diamond(2500+), do i rarely see proxy 2 gate in PvP. It's usually the same old bullshit cannon rushes, 4 gates, and mass colossi battles.
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I hope you use this on me, a lot. Please. Everytime we face, please use this on me, I would love the free wins.
I always scout my base to prevent proxy's like that for a reason. and god forbid you are on a large map,
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On January 10 2011 03:13 Sonic114 wrote:
In high diamond(2500+), do i rarely see proxy 2 gate in PvP. It's usually the same old bullshit cannon rushes, 4 gates, and mass colossi battles.
Uh.
On January 10 2011 03:00 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 02:36 iChau wrote:LOL I just 8x-ed to the 3 minute mark and this guy fails as well. He aims for the most HARDEST thing to surround of all: a pylon, backed up by 2 gateways, that only allows for 2-3 probes to attack. He never even tried to destroy the gateways, and could've destroyed one if he wanted, too, as the one that was warped in second was only recently warped in, and had very little health.1 proxy gateway does not make much of a threat. When he attacked the pylon, the probes just stopped and he didn't command them until a couple of seconds after. That was sad. These replays don't show much besides incompetent players. edit2: Well, it's okay that you're at least posting replays that are working against 1k/2k diamonds, though, since I asked for that. Those players are "bad", though. If there's a replay that shows a competent player stopping the proxy 2 gate while it's either warping in or already completed, feel free to share. Posts like this never fail to amuse me. Competent players play in tournaments and win money. 99% of the player base is not what you call competent. Sure, you can sit in your armchair quaterbacking, but just face it, diamond, even fairly high diamond, means NOTHING, and even "competent" players make stupid mistakes and lose stupid games ALL THE TIME. So bashing this guy for cheesing, saying it will never work vs a decent layer......is just ludicrous. Sure, it will have a lower success rate, but I guarantee this strat will win ~50% of the time even in fairly high diamond.
This guy says so so you can take a look. He obviously 2-gated high diamonds and won.
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Congrats for cheesing into Diamond, however you are severely skill capped right now and will most likely lose if you start playing standard.
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@iChau... It's an illusion to think that 10/10 gate is faster than 12/14 gate, as you get the money much later since you pretty much start with one less worker. If you wanna play a game Ill prove it to you. At 14 supply when you scout it you save chronoboost so you can use it on the first two zealots.
So yes, first zealot is identical time, but after that you'll be one zealot ahead. You gotta walk towards my gateways to attack which gives me an edge to build up my zealots. With 2 gates I have Eco to tech, and in the end it comes down to a unfavores micro war that you will lose.
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ok.. so first of all this is very old...
2nd... ok you are diamond.. or will be.. so? are you happy? if yes then good for you... but this doesn`t mean that you can play, the only good think with this is that you make your micro looking good for the time when you will want to do normal plays. I use this sometimes, but only in pvp and in big maps( 4 player ones). I`m not happy when i win/lose like this.. but i hate pvp. And anyhow.. pvp is:
1. 4 gate.. 4 gate or 2 gate rush is almost same difficulty.. so you don`t have to feel bad if u win with 2 gate proxy..
2.1 gate robo.. cmon.. it is normal to punish this kind of play...
3.2gate robo.. collosus long long boring games
very little other versions of pvp...: 3gate expand, zealot into DTrush, zealots VR, cannon and kinda that is it about pvp.
Anyhow when you are happy that you achiev diamond please start to play because you will forget what is a macro game.. and when you will face 2k+ diamond they will check for proxy in base and you will lose 10 games from 10.. GL dude
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On January 10 2011 03:41 jarod wrote:
Anyhow when you are happy that you achiev diamond please start to play because you will forget what is a macro game.. and when you will face 2k+ diamond they will check for proxy in base and you will lose 10 games from 10.. GL dude
I play standard builds on private 1v1s to get better at that.
I have been facing 2K+ diamonds, who have scouted their base for proxy, found it early, and still lost. so its like... LOL!
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On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha
Sir, dont take this as flame, but blunt criticism.
Awesome, you made it to low Diamond with a single cheese build. And when that build caps out in diamond against players who actually know what they're doing, you will lose a lot more than you will win.
And 2 things will happen. You'll either quit SC2, thinking youve accomplished something and that the players who beat you dont do anything but play sc2 all day anyawys (a partial truth). Or you'll actually try playing standard. And when you start getting worked because the players you're facing have been playing standard all this time youve had your single cheese build, you rack up a nice bit of loses and get knocked down.
So, I ask you, why bother? Why not use your time wisely and invest in standard play where you're peers will actually respect your play style and you being in diamond will actually mean something when your 3k+ with a nice arsenal of builds at your disposal.
/shrugs.
Or you could just be a troll.
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France12911 Posts
On January 09 2011 13:31 Bacon-X wrote:
Well I only had the goal of getting into diamond with cheesing to see if it was possible, and yes, it was very possible.
Any protoss build will get u diamond very fast as long as you play with your two hands you know? :D
that's Protoss dude
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I've known about this build for awhile, never tried it out until today. It turns out to be extremely effective, hell, it works even if you build a few extra probes.
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On January 10 2011 03:47 Afterhours wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha Sir, dont take this as flame, but blunt criticism. Awesome, you made it to low Diamond with a single cheese build. And when that build caps out in diamond against players who actually know what they're doing, you will lose a lot more than you will win. And 2 things will happen. You'll either quit SC2, thinking youve accomplished something and that the players who beat you dont do anything but play sc2 all day anyawys (a partial truth). Or you'll actually try playing standard. And when you start getting worked because the players you're facing have been playing standard all this time youve had your single cheese build, you rack up a nice bit of loses and get knocked down. /shrugs. Or you could just be a troll.
Woah Woah Woah, Read my signature not about to quit starcraft, been my favorite game since I laid my hands on it about 6 years ago when I started playing broodwar. Yeah sc2 is a pretty cool game. And you're right, I'm playing standard builds with my diamond friends who are trying to help me get better right now, so dont worry about me too much hehe I'll be good one day
This whole post was to prove something to the world. Anyone can get into diamond with this strategy. Have fun peoples.
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For all those who say this is bad for the OP in the long run (from a lets-get-legitimately-good stand point) are dead wrong.
Again for from the stand point of being a better player...
If you had the chance to practice with Idra or some noob in bronze what would be your choice?
What would be more productive?
My suggestion to new players is to cheese your way out of poop slinging that goes on in the lower leagues up to at least platinum. Then start mixing in some macro games and watching replays of your lost games. Because your up against better players, you will learn more from your opponents.
Finally a good lesson for all of us is to freaking scout! Losing to cheese almost always happens when i didn't check that dark spot for a proxy or scouted to late or too lazy.
That fact that OP was able to get into diamond (grats btw) seems very telling about how even mediocre players don't scout properly or enough.
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The execution of 2 gates differs between players and even though it's a cheese, it still does require some skill to pull off. I've seen high level players use this in tournaments and they can pretty much transition well after it fails and yes the opponent is also good enough to make it fail.
This also reflects the standard of the diamond league. It still needs to be refined as there are so many 1 build wonders in Diamond. Probably a reason why there's going to be a Master League.
@Bacon-X ... would you like to practice this build with me? I'd sure like to be able to at least know what to do when I face this. I mean losing because you missed it is okay we can blame it on the scouting .. but to lose it even after scouting just means not knowing how to handle the cheese. And I'm sure there are plenty of correct methods to handle this type of cheese when scouted.
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On January 10 2011 03:47 Bacon-X wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 03:41 jarod wrote:
Anyhow when you are happy that you achiev diamond please start to play because you will forget what is a macro game.. and when you will face 2k+ diamond they will check for proxy in base and you will lose 10 games from 10.. GL dude I play standard builds on private 1v1s to get better at that. I have been facing 2K+ diamonds, who have scouted their base for proxy, found it early, and still lost. so its like... LOL!
Um, didn't I point out what that diamond did wrong?
On January 10 2011 03:41 Skillz_Man wrote:
@iChau... It's an illusion to think that 10/10 gate is faster than 12/14 gate, as you get the money much later since you pretty much start with one less worker. If you wanna play a game Ill prove it to you. At 14 supply when you scout it you save chronoboost so you can use it on the first two zealots.
So yes, first zealot is identical time, but after that you'll be one zealot ahead. You gotta walk towards my gateways to attack which gives me an edge to build up my zealots. With 2 gates I have Eco to tech, and in the end it comes down to a unfavores micro war that you will lose.
I'll try to get the timings. 10/10/10 is just making probes while gateways are warping in, and 12/14 chrono-boosts at 11 and 13.
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this guy is obviously a troll. there is no way someone is serious about thinking they discovered the proxy 2 gate
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On January 09 2011 05:10 Bacon-X wrote:
=P!!!!!!!
Is this the online equivalent of blowing a raspberry?
And congrats on reaching diamond! Could you also write a guide for 6 pooling? I think that would be another valuable contribution that would be very well received.
edit: of course you may want to let someone else handle it as it's a bit of an advanced strategy and changing races at the diamond level can be difficult
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So what, is this a brag thread about a Bronze level player cheesing his way to Diamond? In that case, congrats, there's only 100.000 other people like you.
If this is an actual strategy thread, well... this strategy has been around since like, day 1 of Beta, and yep it's very strong if it's not scouted and if the opponent doesn't react properly. It stops working when the opponent is good enough to either kill your gates with workers before a Zealot can be built or just defending well, via the usage of worker retreating and just matching your unitcount.
Really suggest you learn to actually play the game instead of relying in gimmicks if you ever want to become decent. It's really bad to cheese your way to diamond since then you can't start playing standard since you'll just get crushed because you're in reality Bronze. Really should have done this in customs, might ruin your whole gaming life and could make you quit relatively soon.
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I did 2 gate proxy to get into diamond as well ( 3 months ago i think ). The strat started to get 50 / 50 so i tried some macro games and still won. Macro is actually easy, and will get you above and behind 50/ 50 in lowish mid diamond.
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I'm just... so happy TL admins don't see fit to change the format of the board, even after they see posts like this coming up from someone who is proxy 2-gating their way from bronze to platinum. Unreal, guys.
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On January 10 2011 05:12 ZeNd0kUn wrote:
@Bacon-X ... would you like to practice this build with me? I'd sure like to be able to at least know what to do when I face this. I mean losing because you missed it is okay we can blame it on the scouting .. but to lose it even after scouting just means not knowing how to handle the cheese. And I'm sure there are plenty of correct methods to handle this type of cheese when scouted.
Sure let's practice, PM me with your character name and Code i'm sooo down =D also I just won another one >_> on a 6 win streak in diamond league here lmao xD
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Ya it is too easy to scout. Also all they have to do is lay down a forge if you scouted it too late and place 2 cannons and you are basicly safe. Then kill the 2 gates and 4gate push him lol.
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On January 10 2011 05:35 thezergk wrote:
this guy is obviously a troll. there is no way someone is serious about thinking they discovered the proxy 2 gate
Sorry If I came off to you as a troll. But in all honesty, I am not. I simply have the intention to increase people's awareness of this build as a very powerful one! Okay... so... I will explain to you my story of how I discovered it. Again, I had no knowledge of this... (only got the game 3 weeks ago).
I was a bronze league noob, playing standard. Only looked at liquipedia for standard builds, and found success with those. I was rank 1 bronze With 1337 Bonus Pool, and 1337 Points on the ladder (that was my last day in bronze). Not kidding either, here are the screenshots that i took that day:
Rank 1 and 1337 bonus pool:
![[image loading]](http://i56.tinypic.com/6hkrc6.jpg)
And here are my points on the ladder:
![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/2dvmwjp.jpg)
Hilarious? Yes. So I thought It was a prophecy come true, that I was destined to become 1337 at this game.
Being rank 1 in bronze I decided to try out crazy rush techniques (I was looking to try out crazy rushes that I'd imagine seeing pro Koreans do) because I felt like screwing around and having some fun. I started out doing cannon rushes (found out those aren't so great). Kept on doing rushes until I found that one which worked wonders for me (really good win streaks). And that one that worked wonders for me is this very build I'm talking about in this thread.
I went from Bronze to silver (was very excited about that at the time.). Kept on winning a few games and all of the sudden BOOM! Gold! I was sooo happy. And I thought "well, let's find out if this can take me all the way to diamond". And I pursued this goal and then at platinum about to be diamond I created this thread to show people the success they can have with this build! Now I am diamond with 115 wins and 61 losses. Good ratio yes?
And that's the story.. Please don't think I'm a troll, I am truly not. I wanted to share this build. Oh and those screenshots are legitimate, not photoshopped or nothing. Added those because they were real and made my experience more interesting.
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On January 10 2011 07:12 Bacon-X wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 05:35 thezergk wrote:
this guy is obviously a troll. there is no way someone is serious about thinking they discovered the proxy 2 gate Sorry If I came off to you as a troll. But in all honesty, I am not. I simply have the intention to increase people's awareness of this build as a very powerful one! Okay... so... I will explain to you my story of how I discovered it. Again, I had no knowledge of this... (only got the game 3 weeks ago). I was a bronze league noob, playing standard. Only looked at liquipedia for standard builds, and found success with those. I was rank 1 bronze With 1337 Bonus Pool, and 1337 Points on the ladder (that was my last day in bronze). Not kidding either, here are the screenshots that i took that day: Rank 1 and 1337 bonus pool: And here are my points on the ladder: Hilarious? Yes. So I thought It was a prophecy come true, that I was destined to become 1337 at this game. Being rank 1 in bronze I decided to try out crazy rush techniques (I was looking to try out crazy rushes that I'd imagine seeing pro Koreans do) because I felt like screwing around and having some fun. I started out doing cannon rushes (found out those aren't so great). Kept on doing rushes until I found that one which worked wonders for me (really good win streaks). And that one that worked wonders for me is this very build I'm talking about in this thread.I went from Bronze to silver (was very excited about that at the time.). Kept on winning a few games and all of the sudden BOOM! Gold! I was sooo happy. And I thought "well, let's find out if this can take me all the way to diamond". And I pursued this goal and then at platinum about to be diamond I created this thread to show people the success they can have with this build! Now I am diamond with 115 wins and 61 losses. Good ratio yes? And that's the story.. Please don't think I'm a troll, I am truly not. I wanted to share this build. Oh and those screenshots are legitimate, not photoshopped or nothing. Added those because they were real and made my experience more interesting.
You should thank the the bronze - low diamonds that you have used this build against.
That's a nice coincidence though.
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On January 10 2011 07:12 Bacon-X wrote:
Hilarious? Yes. So I thought It was a prophecy come true, that I was destined to become 1337 at this game.
....................
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You have got to be kidding me. I feel like i'm getting trolled.
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There's a lot of noob people in diamond you know...
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This is pathetic, no other words for it.
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Diamond was supposed to be for good players T_T
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Inspired by baller's graphs:
![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/2vvuf5u.png)
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This works on me on 1 of my 3 opening builds as zerg most of the time, around @2500 diamond no problem
If I open hatch first, you'll win. If I open 10 gas / 11 pool, or 14 gas, 14 pool, you lose. Because I suck And unless I know your starting location, won't find you unless I am lucky in order to stop going 14 hatch blind most likely.
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Your now in diamond but if anyone looks at your match history after a game I doubt they would give you any respect for it. I don't see what this proves? I'll admit I have used this after a losing streak but I don't rely on this single build.
This question can be directed at any continous cheeser, how is it any fun; that's what I really dont get?
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On January 10 2011 09:24 Stephen_drewz wrote:
This question can be directed at any continous cheeser, how is it any fun; that's what I really dont get?
It's fun for me, plus I win. That's a bonus. Also it's hilarious xD Really, it's funny.
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On January 09 2011 05:35 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Older than the universe.
Hahaha, yeah I remember that being a standard build in the first month of the beta Some other tactics were building two barracks and then flying them into the oppenents main behind the steam vents on metalopolis and general unrefined korean warpgate shinadigans.
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On January 09 2011 05:10 Bacon-X wrote:
I want your guys' opinions on this build and comments. And don't just say "Cheese rush noob".
Cheese rush noob.
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Too bad you don't actually get GOOD. Sure, you're diamond. You might even be a high diamond. But against any decent player, you don't even stand a chance.
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Scout on 9
See no pylon in base
build forge
produce zealot
build cannon
20 probes vs. your 10
gg
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I hate being cheesed too. The best you can do is accept the loss graciously and do research to see how to respond appropriately the next time. However once someone was really rude, so I flew my CC out into the middle of nowhere and made myself a sandwich, told him that he'd need to get the gas to go stargates and then voidrays to find my mysterious floating CC.
He quit in disgust at my counter BM =)
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can we expect a cannon rush build anything soon? or a 6pool build?
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It'll be especially funny when you want to play legitimately and you'll still be up against the same opponents :D
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I used this to get into Diamond. Then that's it. End result, Diamond(lousy one) and no game sense/macro. Get a grip, all you are doing are winning ladder games, take a chill pill and play a good game.
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Canada13405 Posts
On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha
This makes me sad since I have been trying to learn mechanics and build orders and tactics and strategies and I am almost to Diamond from september onwards.
Its my first RTS and then someone like you comes along and proxy double 10 gates his way to diamond. Sigh* I am consoled in the fact that when you try a macro game it won't end up too well probably.
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being in diamond doesnt mean a little, it means a lot as long as you dont cheese everygame. If you are (like me) 2700 diamond I feel thats pretty good (just saying cause ppl diamond bashed)
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On January 24 2011 10:42 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:20 Bacon-X wrote:
Mission Complete! I cheesed my way to diamond! =D =D =D hahahahaha This makes me sad since I have been trying to learn mechanics and build orders and tactics and strategies and I am almost to Diamond from september onwards. Its my first RTS and then someone like you comes along and proxy double 10 gates his way to diamond. Sigh* I am consoled in the fact that when you try a macro game it won't end up too well probably.
Im like you but i started 2 weeks ago and am just breaking into silver. I think I am an expert at fighting cheeses because of how often thye have tried it on me. I think protoss definitely has the easiest cheeses. When I scout and I see no assimilators I usually expect some early zealot harrasment so I wall off, build an extra rax and churn out marines. Then when I am pumping rines out of 3 rax I like to go for upgrades and try to get out some medivacs and siege tanks.
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I fear proxy gateways everytime I face a Protoss on a 2 player map (as a terran). Even if I scout the gates warping in, the protoss can just cancel the gates after I pull a bunch of probes and end up ahead economically. If I bunker up the mineral line, I will still take losses and then bam, stalkers hit.
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On January 24 2011 10:58 ilion wrote:
I fear proxy gateways everytime I face a Protoss on a 2 player map (as a terran). Even if I scout the gates warping in, the protoss can just cancel the gates after I pull a bunch of probes and end up ahead economically. If I bunker up the mineral line, I will still take losses and then bam, stalkers hit.
dont use bunkers then, its always best to use production structures as walls than building extra structures that slow down your economy. Also you should be able to keep your scv alive until the gateway is completed unless he pulls probes off of his mineral line which is in itself a small victory.
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There is no way that this is not a troll thread.
I refuse to believe someone is this ignorant.
This has to be a troll thread.
Oh God please make it stop.
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2000 is low diamond now. high diamond is 2700+ atm and top ~3000
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HOW DO I BEAT THIS WHEN I SCOUT IT?
as zerg
--
as terran
--
as protoss
please 
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not really uncommon, but your going to get shit on once you actually feel like playing real strats.
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as old as whitera dude, and yes people do get mad at this strategy a lot but it works, even though i like to call this Cheese O.o
Try playing more macro games!! :D
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lol doesnt really seem like big news to me bro
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please keep in mind that two gating is only great until your opponent scouts you.
on maps like scraps station with a big ramp, two gating isn't all that bad, once you start playing diamond you're going to have to learn to do more than a 5 minute game.
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On January 24 2011 14:12 JRICE wrote:
please keep in mind that two gating is only great until your opponent scouts you.
on maps like scraps station with a big ramp, two gating isn't all that bad, once you start playing diamond you're going to have to learn to do more than a 5 minute game.
not at all..
i've 2gated my way to diamond and maintained it for the longest time.
By 2g i mean (pylon-gate-assim-pylon-cyber-gate)
add in a robo / tech choice building or even expansion and you would be surprised how big of an army you can make off 2g.
scrap station is the worst to 2g on because of the rush distance...
and the 2g proper timing comes around the 6 - 6:30 mark
if your talking about proxy 2g all in, then yes.
proxy 1g is a sacrifice you make by saying "im going to put my second gate + cyber in my main, but use the 100m(pylon) and 150m(gate) as a sacrifice to deal as much economic damage as possible to my opponent."
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On January 24 2011 11:21 TibblesEvilCat wrote:HOW DO I BEAT THIS WHEN I SCOUT IT? as zerg -- as terran -- as protoss please
13 or 15 pool should be ok. cancel gas, make queen, spines, lings (in that order). Probably not a bad idea to make an extra queen before expansion as well. Keep drones from dying.
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So now your in diamond and you have become proficient or mastered basically 0 of the skills that make a person good at starcraft. Whats the point?
BTW as toss when I scout this (or their empty base) I look for cannon rush in my base and below my cliffs while going 3 gate zealot rush to counter. Usually, once I've held it off, I get a sentry out and I rush to dt's after that and take my expo. BM guaranteed. I just go into standard pvp after that (colossus and lots of gateways) to ensure the win.
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On January 24 2011 11:21 TibblesEvilCat wrote:HOW DO I BEAT THIS WHEN I SCOUT IT? as zerg -- as terran -- as protoss please
protoss - send 1 scout to target his probe, pull workers off gas (if any) chrono boost zeals out, and put down forge if early scout.
concept: if you scout nothing in opponents base it is either forge or proxy gate, so you should instinctively put down forge expecting a cannon rush.. once you get 2 cannons up around your mineral line, send your zeals to your opponents base to target workers.
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On January 24 2011 14:36 Reborn8u wrote: So now your in diamond and you have become proficient or mastered basically 0 of the skills that make a person good at starcraft. Whats the point? BTW as toss when I scout this (or their empty base) I look for cannon rush in my base and below my cliffs while going 3 gate zealot rush to counter. Usually, once I've held it off, I get a sentry out and I rush to dt's after that and take my expo. BM guaranteed. I just go into standard pvp after that (colossus and lots of gateways) to ensure the win.
just my experience, but standard reaction from a fail proxy 2gate, is fall back on forge + 4 cannons at the ramp. they turtle up, and tech dts about 80% of the time.
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On January 24 2011 14:21 DanceSC wrote:
scrap station is the worst to 2g on because of the rush distance...
and the 2g proper timing comes around the 6 - 6:30 mark
if your talking about proxy 2g all in, then yes.
proxy 1g is a sacrifice you make by saying "im going to put my second gate + cyber in my main, but use the 100m(pylon) and 150m(gate) as a sacrifice to deal as much economic damage as possible to my opponent."
yeah i was referring to proxy as its really strong when you do it by the set of destructible rocks as this isn't seen when people send out scouts and it can get you 5 zlots before a full block.
i generally still go 3 gate robo because i just feel uncomfortable warping in two units at a time, but its still viable.
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On January 24 2011 14:50 JRICE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 14:21 DanceSC wrote:
scrap station is the worst to 2g on because of the rush distance...
and the 2g proper timing comes around the 6 - 6:30 mark
if your talking about proxy 2g all in, then yes.
proxy 1g is a sacrifice you make by saying "im going to put my second gate + cyber in my main, but use the 100m(pylon) and 150m(gate) as a sacrifice to deal as much economic damage as possible to my opponent." yeah i was referring to proxy as its really strong when you do it by the set of destructible rocks as this isn't seen when people send out scouts and it can get you 5 zlots before a full block. i generally still go 3 gate robo because i just feel uncomfortable warping in two units at a time, but its still viable.
yeah very true,
there was a thread a while back about the differences between a 3g robo and a 2g robo. they both lead to the same late game, the only difference is the timing push. my biggest problem transitioning out of 2g robo was building the third gate. A couple games i went 3 bases and only 2 gates -_- ... the sad thing was that i made it that far.
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Its interesting how much annoyance (or rage) the OP has generated.
Some people have pointed out this strategy would rarely work against a strong player. The other way to think about it is you will not be a strong player until you learn to detect and respond to these types of strategies.
That aside, I see variations of this strategy as perfectly "legitimate" or even highly viable in certain situations. Variations of the proxy-gate inside the main are seen in professional games. All this means is that "standard play" must recognise and adapt to the possibility of such a strategy being used in any given game. It is great to throw this type of thing in once in a while just so your opponent knows you "might" do it, and has to waste APM/mineral collecting time scouting and worrying!
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I think doing builds that only work against players who make key mistakes is a great way to get better.
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On January 24 2011 15:04 typedef struct wrote:
I think doing builds that only work against players who make key mistakes is a great way to get better.
Then how will you get better against players who don't make mistakes like this?
You want to learn to react. Not to hope.
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I think this strategy will only work against stupid player or somebody that never got proxy ever. I play zerg and I always scout in my base with a drone at a good timing to see if I'm getting cheese.
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On January 24 2011 15:52 TitCriss wrote:
I think this strategy will only work against stupid player or somebody that never got proxy ever. I play zerg and I always scout in my base with a drone at a good timing to see if I'm getting cheese.
hell you dont even need a drone. just put an overlord at the entrance and you are done.
the 9 overlord should be able to scout any further and the 13 scout should take care of the rest.
You are right though good scouting just shuts this down.
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On January 24 2011 15:51 HotKimchi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 15:04 typedef struct wrote:
I think doing builds that only work against players who make key mistakes is a great way to get better. Then how will you get better against players who don't make mistakes like this? You want to learn to react. Not to hope.
Ever heard of sarcasm?
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On January 24 2011 18:25 TearDrop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 15:51 HotKimchi wrote:On January 24 2011 15:04 typedef struct wrote:
I think doing builds that only work against players who make key mistakes is a great way to get better. Then how will you get better against players who don't make mistakes like this? You want to learn to react. Not to hope. Ever heard of sarcasm?
Let me get this straight. I give my opinion on a forum for strategy and you bash it with something on a whim?
I bring up a point to people who may of read his post and you post something completely worthless?
Yeah I have heard of sarcasm. Have you heard of relevance?
Other than this guy trying to be smooth. I am expressing my opinion that blatant cheese doesn't make you a better player. It just gets you quick wins.
When you don't play a drawn out game you don't learn how to react to an opponents build or units comp.
All ins are great sometimes and do have their places. However ONLY doing this will make you a one trick pony. You do what you gotta do, but if you want to become a well rounded player you should play as such.
This is what post should be on the forums. Not some mindless trash like "have you ever heard of sarcasm?" That introduces nothing to a thread, even if it is a troll thread.
Team Liquid is a forum where players come to get starcraft news or become a better player. The admins try damn hard to make this a decent forum. Show some respect and contribute just like they do with pertinent information.
I really hope you are mature enough to recognize this.
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Are you guys really this stupid?
Bacon-X: "Woah Woah Woah, Read my signature not about to quit starcraft, been my favorite game since I laid my hands on it about 6 years ago when I started playing broodwar."
Bacon-X: "Again, I had no knowledge of this... (only got the game 3 weeks ago)."
Scouting information can tell you what the opponent is doing. What does the above scouting information say?
It either tells you that in six years of brood war, he never once saw a proxy 2 gate. Or, it tells you that you all don't know how to interpret scouting information. Which is appropriate, because lack of scouting = fail to cheese is kind of the point of this thread. Which makes this thread both recursive AND an analogy for the strategy that it so-recently discovered.
We could go further. He reads liquipedia, but... never heard of the proxy two gate? Then he shows up with a screen shot that says 1337? And you guys believe that is... an amazing coincidence? But it's not really necessary.
Bacon X just proxy gated everyone in this thread. You have all just been forum cheesed. You saw him plant the pylon, but you made the fatal mistake of chasing the probe! Everyone knows you can't catch the probe. You have to attack the structures it builds. Like i did. Above.
What is worse, through your collective incompetence, I have been second hand cheesed, as I am forced to un-lurk in order to point all this out. And as you all know from smoking, second hand cheese is just as deadly as first hand cheese. It just takes longer.
And since I'm here, lol at the guy who asks for a diamond replay, gets it, then asks for a 2k diamond replay, gets THAT, and still wont admit Bacon X owned him.
I say all of this with love.
Now back to the recording studio. If you suckers need me, me and Bacon X will be planting proxy pylons in some chicks back behind the mineral line.
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On January 24 2011 14:41 DanceSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 11:21 TibblesEvilCat wrote:HOW DO I BEAT THIS WHEN I SCOUT IT? as zerg -- as terran -- as protoss please protoss - send 1 scout to target his probe, pull workers off gas (if any) chrono boost zeals out, and put down forge if early scout. concept: if you scout nothing in opponents base it is either forge or proxy gate, so you should instinctively put down forge expecting a cannon rush.. once you get 2 cannons up around your mineral line, send your zeals to your opponents base to target workers.
Agree with throwing down forge - nevertheless what I like to do is cannon-rush my opponent reactively. You can defend very well with your 1 gate zealots and 2 cannons. Once these are down, I go into cannon-rush-mode. Normally nothing that they can do about it, nearly impossible to predict.
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I suggest you do the xel naga a pylon down the cliff trick every single time you are on xel naga
Dont commit to the tactic, just make sure the economy of the enemy is destroyed (as he has pulled off his workers)
And if he does not pull his workers, fine, you boost zealots and commit to it.
I just see no efficient way of holding it off.
This tactic cannot "fail". As soon as your gateway begins contruction, you have succeeded. Just like probe harrass, just zap the scv building the depot, opponent will at the very least going to pull a worker off the line.
He will pull his workers, and even if your gateway is almost killed, build another one then cancel.
Cancelling 3 gateways=111 and losing 1 pylon 100 so you've lost 211 minerals but the enemy pulled workers off the line, whatever his gameplay may be it is now destroyed.
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On January 24 2011 23:00 DestroManiak wrote:
I suggest you do the xel naga a pylon down the cliff trick every single time you are on xel naga
Dont commit to the tactic, just make sure the economy of the enemy is destroyed (as he has pulled off his workers)
And if he does not pull his workers, fine, you boost zealots and commit to it.
I just see no efficient way of holding it off.
This tactic cannot "fail". As soon as your gateway begins contruction, you have succeeded. Just like probe harrass, just zap the scv building the depot, opponent will at the very least going to pull a worker off the line.
He will pull his workers, and even if your gateway is almost killed, build another one then cancel.
Cancelling 3 gateways=111 and losing 1 pylon 100 so you've lost 211 minerals but the enemy pulled workers off the line, whatever his gameplay may be it is now destroyed.
This is pretty much the most annoying harassment known to man, as if it works well(aka, not scouted) it wins instantly, while even if it is, it still hurts the opponent at least as much as it hurts the toss to do it. Of course, me being a toss, i do this all the time.
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a 2 gate proxy rush should NEVER work against a terran if you wall off.
as soon as you scout it, just lift your command centre from your main to your natural along with all your scv's. now there's a wall between the protoss's gateways and his own base.
auto-repair the supply depots that the zealots are trying to kill whilst making a few marines.
run a few marines into his completely undefended base and gg.
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EPT
