EPT[G] TvZ Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push - Page 20
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Neshapotamus
United States163 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On December 08 2010 13:57 tournamentnow wrote: i don;t think you know how to wall off properly. i can make it auto win if zerg wastes a ton of banes into my rax. see the 1st rax you make at bottom of ramp? you can make1-2 marines then float it and then add several more rax as appropriate. then make a bunkers in front of wall and some behind wall. the zerg will then waste more banelings. just don't clump up the bunkers. if you want to have a strong economy, dont get gas trust me if you know opponent all in banelings/etc. all you really need is just enough bunkers . Reps to support this would be nice. It doesn't sound like we are playing the same game. There's no way the timings work out like that after delaying extra production facilities for 2 CCs. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On December 07 2010 15:48 Conrose wrote: Will the speedlings get them before the hatch gets sniped? It takes what, 8 seconds to deal the damage and an additional 2 seconds before they can attempt to withdraw? You can queue the thors to enter their medivacs as soon as they finish casting. I used to do it all the time to practice on AI. Found it didn't work so good on ladder. Kudos for Griffith for the idea. Threat from mass anything on the front door will keep a player from peeking at his back. Esp. if the thorship is pushed out with a bio-ball that takes at least 10 seconds to kill off. Infestors can't be in two places at the same time. :D Unless they get a nydus.  | ||
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dbkim92
Australia30 Posts
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Tyrannon
Germany113 Posts
How early can you squeeze that stim in your build? | ||
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visselli
Canada76 Posts
Please lets dispel the idea that having 4 CCs on 2 base is like being on 4 base because its NOT. Being on 4 base means ~having 80-100 workers constantly mining, The only thing exta CCs give u is more Mules which are equivalent to 4-6 workers. So yes you will be mining more from 2 bases and have a larger income than any other 2 base race but once again it is NOT like being on 4 bases. I would say this is not a viable build past ~1500 diamond mark as you can't just invest 1100 minerals early on and not get punished for it. | ||
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eth3n
718 Posts
On December 07 2010 15:10 Griffith` wrote: The biggest advantage however, when compared to standard MMM drops, is that the 3 thor drop is safe from being chased by mutas, as 3 dropped thors will quickly obliterate muta clumps, even without magic box. EDIT: didn't realize infestor nerf has been revered - sigh. So is this just assuming that your marine harassment will make the hardest race to doom drop somehow neglect awareness of his base? Is he spending so much on banes that he can't get overlord speed upgrade? | ||
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Rflcrx
503 Posts
On December 08 2010 20:32 dbkim92 wrote: PsyStarcrafts's youtube channel has a latest video of him destroying iEchoic who used this 4OC build by using infestors that game was just hilarious, psy played pretty bad (he even lols at his own macro/eco) yet totally owns Echoic despite a very heavy walloff. Great entertainment and info! | ||
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pAzand
Sweden539 Posts
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
you only get like 20 temporary scvs for the 4 mules ( ignores saturation ) 12mins faster/irl time = 16minutes normal You'd only get 3 bases worth with 2 bases at 48 scvs on blue minerals+4mules | ||
out4blood
United States313 Posts
I have also started walling in the bottom of the ramp on my most maps with close naturals. I feel denying the drone scout is important enough to take the early risk. I also think that Zergs get too much information when they send a ling up the ramp when you wall off up top. I can then use that initial barracks as the start of a wall around the natural.Once you get the natural up with tons of rax, the zerg will have a hard time of it. | ||
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Phiir
Canada7 Posts
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Bixs
Denmark66 Posts
On December 08 2010 21:52 visselli wrote: yea this build is only good on paper, not in practice. Building command centers instead of supply depots is a good choice in that they pay forthemselves very quickly but 400 x2 + 150 x2 = 1100 minerals on the two extra CCs + lost mining time making them, you will always be behind in army and in tech with this build, until you hit mid-late game. Please lets dispel the idea that having 4 CCs on 2 base is like being on 4 base because its NOT. Being on 4 base means ~having 80-100 workers constantly mining, The only thing exta CCs give u is more Mules which are equivalent to 4-6 workers. So yes you will be mining more from 2 bases and have a larger income than any other 2 base race but once again it is NOT like being on 4 bases. I would say this is not a viable build past ~1500 diamond mark as you can't just invest 1100 minerals early on and not get punished for it. You cannot be serious? There have been lots of submitted replays, this is viable at high diamond (2500ish), at least atm. due to the insane pressure marines/bio can put on zerg and that the composition mainly is mineral bound. The real question is whether it would work aganist good zergs that early expand. (Even though this seems kinda irrelevent when alot of zergs lose to 2 rax pressure anyway) Edit: And where is the intuition to go 4 OC when zerg is 1 baseing? "Oh, zerg is not expanding! That must mean I shouldn't expect any kind of aggression! I'l go make 4 command centers! ... seriously?". | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 08 2010 22:48 pAzand wrote: I don't get why terrans don't get a inbase OC after taking a natural, no need to be too greedy with 4 OC, 3 OC should be enough too keep up econ and, float the 3rd to an expansion in a good timing and make 1-2 OC's in base? 6 gas, 5 OC, should get you on par with Zerg? It is too difficult to defend the 3rd early on for most maps mainly due to threat of sling/bling runbys. The investment sunk into defending a third, bunker + 4 marines +4 turrets + SCVs to mine is usually greater than what can be handled. You should only ease into a 3rd during your pressure push. As for 4 or 3 OC, oddly enough I've found that 3OC is a bit easier than 4OC on close spawn positions on maps like LT/Meta | ||
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0c3LoT
Canada162 Posts
It is a fun build to play tho. | ||
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chickensnack
United States21 Posts
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Bixs
Denmark66 Posts
TvZ 2.2k zerg http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/113826-1v1-terran-zerg-lost-temple Imo. 4 oc is one too much. It delays the pressure too much and allows zerg to drone up a bit too much. Either way you'll notice I have way too many ressources at the end 5k mineral? I just didn't have enough raxes to keep up and zerg, properbly didn't have enough larva. P.S. Jungling this much micro macro is hard :S | ||
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TheRealDJ
United States124 Posts
On December 09 2010 01:27 Bixs wrote: You cannot be serious? There have been lots of submitted replays, this is viable at high diamond (2500ish), at least atm. due to the insane pressure marines/bio can put on zerg and that the composition mainly is mineral bound. The real question is whether it would work aganist good zergs that early expand. (Even though this seems kinda irrelevent when alot of zergs lose to 2 rax pressure anyway) Edit: And where is the intuition to go 4 OC when zerg is 1 baseing? "Oh, zerg is not expanding! That must mean I shouldn't expect any kind of aggression! I'l go make 4 command centers! ... seriously?". I've won every match against zerg I've used this with since I practiced the execution of the build. I would point to Griffith's replays of zerg doing 5rr or 7rr as key examples on a close spawn map(steppes) of how successful this is to early pressure. If you see zerg one basing, double bunker, and reinforce the wall, if they fast hatch, ignore bunkers and get the cc's earlier and secure the expansion. In this case having the defender's advantage is more important than zerg's first mover advantage since they don't have a strong long ranged unit(such as hydra) or an air unit capable of getting by your wall. | ||
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Phiir
Canada7 Posts
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
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