EPT[G] TvZ Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push - Page 22
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RadicalEdwrd
United States53 Posts
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Conrose
437 Posts
I will get a chance when I return home for the holidays though. | ||
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TheRealDJ
United States124 Posts
On December 10 2010 07:49 RadicalEdwrd wrote: I was trying a similar strategy before I found this thread but I only had 3 OCs...although I lost the game terribly I did notice that I was easily able to keep up with the Zerg on 3 OCs...do you think 4 OCs is really necessary? Personally I try to transition into 5 or 6 OC play once my production is up and going which lets me ninja mine with hidden expansions, not risking any scvs. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 10 2010 06:44 Conrose wrote: Any replays of the Mech transitions yet Griffith? And also, I'd love to see 3v3 and 4v4 Videos of it... especially if one Terran goes 4 OC straight off while another goes 4OC shortly after the first 4 OC starts putting out the Bioball spam. And can someone get a 4OC vs 4OC replay? Just an example mech transition: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/114371-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/114441-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns It is far from perfect, but its a ~2k diamond game, mid-level, should suffice for your purposes to get an idea of it. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
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jay236
29 Posts
I watched the 2600+ game and I was sorely dissapointed by the bad decision making of the Zerg (he built a lot of fighting units but just waited until you attacked, his drone count was abysmal). I definitely think this build has some merit, just needs to be a little more refined. Some extra APM could probably help this play a lot (your bio split needs to run your marines away from banes rather than all your marauders). I'm not a Zerg player but I think his muta timing was also off. No harassment from him so he basically let you macro. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
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MarkMcKay
United States6 Posts
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NathanS
5 Posts
Obviously if you scoout zerg taking a third, go ahead and go 4 or even 5 OC fast. If he's one basing, maybe just get 2-3. It seems like there needs to be some kind of modification depending on the game. It's painful watching these replays with the terran player staying at 4OC when he has 4 bases. You should have something like 2-3 OC per base. Obviously once you hit the ~8 mark scale this back, but until then OC should be replacing supply depots as much as possible. | ||
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TheRealDJ
United States124 Posts
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 11 2010 00:20 NathanS wrote: Why do you guys stop at 4OC? And why not start with 3? This just seems so cookie cutter as it is being played. Obviously if you scoout zerg taking a third, go ahead and go 4 or even 5 OC fast. If he's one basing, maybe just get 2-3. It seems like there needs to be some kind of modification depending on the game. It's painful watching these replays with the terran player staying at 4OC when he has 4 bases. You should have something like 2-3 OC per base. Obviously once you hit the ~8 mark scale this back, but until then OC should be replacing supply depots as much as possible. I think there comes a point where it becomes overkill. When doing 3OC, it puts me "on-par" with zerg's economy throughout most of mid-game, the 4th OC I find is what gives me an economic advantage worth investing in. As the old adage goes... be either hot or cold, never lukewarm. If you invest, commit to it and invest early. Of course, if the zerg is expoing to a 4th or a 5th, by all means take your 4th, and 5th. But there really isn't a need to use OCs for use, a standard PF is fine, in mid-late game its more important to actually keep mining bases alive. 4 MULEs will last you all game. | ||
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THEPPLsELBOW
United States190 Posts
On December 11 2010 08:36 Griffith` wrote: I think there comes a point where it becomes overkill. When doing 3OC, it puts me "on-par" with zerg's economy throughout most of mid-game, the 4th OC I find is what gives me an economic advantage worth investing in. As the old adage goes... be either hot or cold, never lukewarm. If you invest, commit to it and invest early. Of course, if the zerg is expoing to a 4th or a 5th, by all means take your 4th, and 5th. But there really isn't a need to use OCs for use, a standard PF is fine, in mid-late game its more important to actually keep mining bases alive. 4 MULEs will last you all game. if you ever find that you have a lot of minerals, not a lot of army, and in need of a third. build 20 bunkers around a middle ish expo, (most gold ones), in staggered formation, and put a few siege tanks in it. feel free to withdraw from your savings account when checking balances run low  | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 09 2010 13:58 micjmac wrote: I haven't seen any high quality replays of aggressive zergs on maps with wide open naturals to completely convince me of this build's effectiveness yet... http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/114683-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns Wide open naturals, check. Aggressive non-stop eco baneling, check. Successful defense, check. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 11 2010 11:25 statikg wrote: I don't really favor this build anymore except on maps with islands because if the zerg reacts with tons of banelings and infestors and does zergling runbys on your 3rd, you can be in trouble, I played one game where I just got totally mined out by this kind of response, you really need a PF at your 3rd but instead you already have a OC you want to use. I suppose you could just build another CC and PF it, without sacrificing too much. Are you still using the MM(+M) transition? The mech one is quite strong, blue flame hellions and tanks roll over sling/bling/infestor combos. vVvNGry 4OCed in SCL finals against EGStrifeCro, amazing execution on his end. (He promised me a replay too, so stay tuned!) | ||
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NGry
United States74 Posts
The biggest problem with the build is what can happen early game as u r dropping 4OC. The biggest weak point is WHEN to drop your 4th OC. If u r expecting pressure it is safer to drop a bunker or 2 and 2 extra rax to assist the initial 2 before starting your 4th OC. This will hold most early Z aggression. After that the idea(at least from my perspective) is to be able to match or have even stronger production then the Z while attempting to keep him on 3 base. Replay below is of myself vs EGstrifecro in SCL Finals http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/114746-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis If you would like, I have more replays of it vs other top tier players per request. | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
On December 11 2010 14:15 NGry wrote: I believe that the 4 OC build is most viable with a transition into bio and slow teching your way to medivacs and tanks. The emphasis is put on massing marines and maintaining efficient production. The biggest problem with the build is what can happen early game as u r dropping 4OC. The biggest weak point is WHEN to drop your 4th OC. If u r expecting pressure it is safer to drop a bunker or 2 and 2 extra rax to assist the initial 2 before starting your 4th OC. This will hold most early Z aggression. After that the idea(at least from my perspective) is to be able to match or have even stronger production then the Z while attempting to keep him on 3 base. Replay below is of myself vs EGstrifecro in SCL Finals http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/114746-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis If you would like, I have more replays of it vs other top tier players per request. When one of the Podcasters (Such as Husky or HD Starcraft) decides to cover that game, you can expect to see this build to go through countless revisions and variations Starting up the replay right now. | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
For Units Lost, he's losing significantly less resource wise than the Zerg player was. When you look at the income tab, he was maintaining on par mineral income with the zerg player the majority of the game while using one of the OCs for frequent scans. And then what I think was the biggest deal was the Spending tab... for most of the match, he was actually spending less (But not significantly so) on his army starting at the moment he begins his first push, he spent significantly less on economy, and absolutely blew away the technology spending at a 3 to 1 ratio. | ||
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Shado.
United States187 Posts
On December 11 2010 14:15 NGry wrote: I believe that the 4 OC build is most viable with a transition into bio and slow teching your way to medivacs and tanks. The emphasis is put on massing marines and maintaining efficient production. The biggest problem with the build is what can happen early game as u r dropping 4OC. The biggest weak point is WHEN to drop your 4th OC. If u r expecting pressure it is safer to drop a bunker or 2 and 2 extra rax to assist the initial 2 before starting your 4th OC. This will hold most early Z aggression. After that the idea(at least from my perspective) is to be able to match or have even stronger production then the Z while attempting to keep him on 3 base. Replay below is of myself vs EGstrifecro in SCL Finals http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/114746-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis If you would like, I have more replays of it vs other top tier players per request. absolute masterpiece. bravo | ||
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Matrijs
United States147 Posts
Rather than losing games where I just get overwhelmed by superior macro, I'm now losing games where I out-spend and out-harvest my opponent but still lose because banelings crush infantry so hard. Any suggestions? Should I just switch to the mech followup? | ||
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