EPT[G] TvZ Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push - Page 24
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TurtlePerson2
United States218 Posts
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
As long as you're responsible about constant pressure and denying expansions, mass baneling usually means less mutas. This means your turrets won't get brute forced down and you can make a lot of tanks too. Mass muta means you need more marines and turrets and your main probably isn't that safe but you should be guaranteed to win a straight up battle with just infantry. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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btb103
United States24 Posts
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Griffith`
714 Posts
I've been testing the build non-stop almost a month now. It seems rock stable to me. It literally feels like an entirely different TvZ to me, you still have to pressure, yes, but the timings and build orders are so whack compared to standard that its mind boggling at times. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 13 2010 10:56 btb103 wrote: I saw this in a tournament on metalopolis recently and it was ridiculously strong. Glad there is a write up like this because I definitely want to try out. Thanks! Yup SCL finals Ngry vs Strifeco(or is it strifecro) either way yes very strong with a player with good mechanics ^^ | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
On December 13 2010 10:59 Griffith` wrote: Edit: I think you're referring to the SCL finals, replays are on page 23. I've been testing the build non-stop almost a month now. It seems rock stable to me. It literally feels like an entirely different TvZ to me, you still have to pressure, yes, but the timings and build orders are so whack compared to standard that its mind boggling at times. Of course it's an entirely different TvZ. You are either forcing the Zerg to micro a lot more than they are comfortable with outside of ZvZ, or forcing them and yourself into a micro-heavy macro game. It's also an entirely different 3v3 and 4v4 experience (3 Partners play defensive builds while I go for the 4 OC + a FE, I hit the 10 minute mark and go MM and take up the offensive that never ends while partners can macro and tech up. At about 20 Minutes, my 3 Partners all push out while I switch to mass expand and gas to high hell (And maybe ninja a gold expansion or 2). It's funny as hell when you close the game with mass Thors that are replaced faster than they are destroyed, even funnier when you are given command of a Mothership to constantly recall newly built thors. | ||
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virtualbreaks
15 Posts
I don't think he had any idea where all my units were coming from because every time we'd trade he'd try to hit one of my expos only to find another bioball waiting there ready to go, and then he eventually gave a little 'wtf, nice' before gg'ing. Feels crazy to be out-macroing a zerg. But fun. I like this build! | ||
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farseerdk
Canada504 Posts
Got roflstomped hahaha, but then again my zerg is currently the weakest of my 3 races and I have a pretty bad record since switching to random. | ||
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
On December 13 2010 17:21 blade55555 wrote: Yup SCL finals Ngry vs Strifeco(or is it strifecro) either way yes very strong with a player with good mechanics ^^ Marines, marines everywhere..... | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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sfvenn
4 Posts
So, assuming I'm really bad but am willing to learn, what can I do as Zerg to combat this? I did take one game with a 7 Roach Rush where I'm assuming he was also going with this build. Is that the answer? An early rush or baneling bust? Or just get better with sling/bling/muta? I did try to mix in infestors the second time, but the macro effort and constant pressure caused me to make quite a few mistakes, and eventually I just ran out of larva for sling/bling. | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
On December 15 2010 07:29 sfvenn wrote: I play Zerg, and my friend used this build against me twice in a friendly custom league best of 3 match. It just wore me down and I finally didn't have the macro to keep up, as he used his periodic bioballs to snipe expos. Ugh. So, assuming I'm really bad but am willing to learn, what can I do as Zerg to combat this? I did take one game with a 7 Roach Rush where I'm assuming he was also going with this build. Is that the answer? An early rush or baneling bust? Or just get better with sling/bling/muta? I did try to mix in infestors the second time, but the macro effort and constant pressure caused me to make quite a few mistakes, and eventually I just ran out of larva for sling/bling. Even at the professional level, Sling Bling eventually just got outmacroed or simply runs out of resources since expanding against constant 4OC Bioballs is so difficult. 7RR should work against low APM players, but apparently it's countered with a few bunkers at the nat or higher levels of APM, and does cause the player to use the one Rax they techlabed for stim/shields for marauder production rather than more marins. Earlier in the discussion there was talk of the Eco Baneling Bust. I personally hypothesize that Overseers contaminating a CC that's upgrading to the OC can by you some precious time, while a flock of say 5 Overseers can create an opening to remacro. | ||
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30to1
105 Posts
There is a massive timing window between 7 and 9 minutes. That's how you most easily beat this build and why ultimately i don't think it has a lot of longevity. If people are familiar with it - they should know about this fairly significant window and crush it. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
We've already tested econ roach, econ sling/bling, 1base muta, 1base sling-bling/5RR,7RR. What do you have in mind? | ||
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30to1
105 Posts
the key problem is the expense/income - the point where the build is weakest is between this point as you're still in the red in terms of resources. its the core problem with the build. EDIT: sorry, not trying to piss on the build or anything - my response was directed at the guy asking how to beat it three posts up. the answer is a strong push between 7 and 9 minutes. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 15 2010 08:05 30to1 wrote: the psystarcraft game is a pretty good example. the key problem is the expense/income - the point where the build is weakest is between this point as you're still in the red in terms of resources. its the core problem with the build. The Psy vs iEchoic game was a 1base-allin blind infestor rush, and it only worked because iechoic teched late to medivacs/tanks and put up zero bunkers. You don't seem to understand the extremeness and esotericness of Psy's build lol. | ||
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Bladefury
25 Posts
My first time trying this build against a 2.2k zerg. I went mmm tanks and planetary fortresses against ling/bling/infestor/ultra. | ||
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30to1
105 Posts
Just look at your build and ask yourself why there is that window and why its weakest there. Its a fine build - but there is a really potent window there, and that timing is the easiest way to beat it. | ||
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