New PvP Build! (Zealot Sentry Void) - Page 3

On November 29 2010 13:16 oZii wrote:
I just watched 3 of your replays Vauld. Usually people like to discredit a build based upon the opponents they faced using the build. I will say that the Blink Stalker PvP your oponents macro was spot on. It was better than yours thats for sure (no offense) that right there is pretty telling about this build.

A bit of a break down of the replays I watched.

The game on Xelnaga I would say your opponent could have built more stuff his macro wasn't spectacular. He was going 2 gate robo. I don't think even if he went 3 gate he could have done anything. You had 4 voids at his base yea he didn't build alot of stuff but he was waiting for the information from his observer and by time it got to your base you already had 3 voids out. The immortals are really useless since your going basically zealot sentry Voids. You really are only getting a few sentries for key forcefields.

On lost temple where you defended the expo and where pressured hard by his stalkers that game was pretty close. I would say that as pointed out dark templar seems the best to counter this. I think that if he builds a few dark templar and sends them to your base and keeps more of his stalkers that he may win that. So its more 50/50 against DT's

The blink stalker rush on Metalopolis pretty much shows the power of this build. Yea the stalkers can blink but its almost neutralized because of the zealots are completely destroying the zealots. I think maybe a round or 2 of zealots from your opponents mixed in the with there stalkers would give them time to focus fire your voids down. Again not saying its a weakness of the build just that it would make the engagements more close to call. Sniping the cyber is almost as bad as sniping a nexus in a sense. After you lost your expo then countered and sniped his cyber it put him behind allowing you 2 re-expo. As you said protoss pretty much are only going to use stalkers for AA.

Overall thoughts:

I would say this is definitely solid build to be used in PvP. I dont think dark templar arguement is that valid yes dark templar can beat this but they can also beat 4 gate and its pretty much accepted that 4 gate is the standard Protoss build. So I still would consider this as viable as 2 gate robo or any other protoss build.

There is definitely room for much more refinement of this build for sure. There are points were you have alot of minerals and as I was watching it I was thinking to myself you could have warped in alot more zealots and probably ended many of your matches earlier. The zealots are just the meat for the voids to do there thing which is the same thing they are used for with colossus.

The common factor in all the replays is that you can tell the opponents and you are able to expand pretty safely.

I will defintely be using this build for sure.

On November 29 2010 12:57 Shlowpoke wrote:
Watched all the replays. I learned that Zealot + Void Rays crushes pure Stalkers without good micro/blink. xD It's a bit counter-intuitive, but it seems that you actually need Zealots to delay their Zealots long enough for your Stalkers to focus down some Void Rays. Guardian shield will also reduce Void Ray damage a lot.

So basically a normal unit composition does well against it, as long as you focus fire correctly.

Look at that match on Metalopolis where your opponent 4-Gated and contained you at the ramp, then didn't make a second wave and just expanded. There was basically nothing you could do to prevent that. The reason you won that game was because of poor micro on your opponent's part and his terrible (yet hilarious) decision to make a Void Ray to combat your 4+ Void Rays.

It looks strong against Robo builds, but Stargate builds having an advantage against Robo builds is nothing new. The reason Stargate openers aren't used much at a high level is because of well-executed 3-Gate Blink or 1 Gas 4-Gate All-ins.

Here's a good 1 Gas 4-Gate All-in: Replay

It hits at around 5:50 with 2 Zealots and 5 Stalkers. At this point in your replays, you had about 3 gateway units (1 Sentry) and your Void Ray was just starting.

On November 29 2010 16:58 BenKen wrote:
I watched all of the replays, definitely gonna try this out next time in PvP. Seemed like with perfect macro you could have gotten a lot more zealots in most of the games too. I don't mean that as an insult, if anything that speaks to the viability of the build, as someone else said in the thread.

On November 29 2010 17:26 slained wrote:
Hey Vauld can I try playing you a few games. I'm like 2400 protoss though.

slained.778, your id?

edit: watched a couple of your reps, I think your opponents especially the one with blink build didn't really micro properly against VRs, in his case he always blinked away instead of towards and kite the VRs while moving away from the zealots. I don't think you should ever win against a proper blink build

On November 29 2010 18:57 darmousseh wrote:
I actually don't think the void rays are what are winning this build, rather it is the heavy zealot force or the combination zealot/void ray that is winning. The void rays themselves are not amazing cost for cost against stalkers, but zealots in range are and what is happening is that the opponent has to choose kill the zealots and die to fully charged void rays or focus fire void rays while getting raped by zealots. In a normal stalker/sentry/zealot army, if these engage you want to kill the zealots first since stalkers aren't that great of dps if left alone, but because void rays are actually a threat when left alone, it entices the opponent to focus the void rays first which make their stalkers mince meat for the zealots. Once you have enough void rays (4-5) they scale significantly faster than stalkers because of their charge ability and ability to stack.

Now the question is how to transition. I like the idea of making 2 zealots, 4 sentries, 2 void rays and then expanding. After that maybe transitioning into charge and void ray speed, and shield upgrade (to benefit the zealots and void rays). Once you can get a third base then start getting stalkers and carriers? I need to see a pro use this build first.

On November 30 2010 01:44 GoldenH wrote:
I was working on a strategy similar to this before 1.1.2 came out. But I found that since then it loses very hard to stalker micro or phoenix/colossus, because you cannot charge the Voids on your buildings, and they do too little damage to un-armored units. I estimate this build will work up until the 2400 diamond range.