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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On December 01 2010 07:15 Retgery wrote: When are we gonna stop the cheese, and figure out some solid macro strategies? when are you going to stop being annoying and whiny? | ||
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Shlowpoke
United States102 Posts
It's a lot more reasonable and still ridiculously strong. You scout at 12 after Gateway, you get an early Zealot and Stalker to protect your proxy pylon probe. WG finishes at 5:30 and after the warp-in you have either 2 Zealots and 5 Stalkers or 1 Zealot and 6 Stalkers. Genius micros poorly and gets himself supply blocked, but if you stop at 20 probes that doesn't happen. 6 Stalkers also 2-shots enemy Stalkers and 3-shots enemy Zealots so... yeah. Very strong build. | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
On December 01 2010 07:15 Retgery wrote: When are we gonna stop the cheese, and figure out some solid macro strategies? What is Cheese about 5 zealots and 6 stalkers at 6:30? I can have a forge and cannons in your base before that. Now thats cheese huh. I really despise thise these kind of posts listen to the newest SOTG Incontrol says that the whats cool about all these all-ins in regards to korean ladder is that it spawns macro and crazy timing builds. You take the base build and expand upon it no one is holding your hand making you use these strategies and if you lose to them thats your fault cause you said before the game I want to play a 10 minute game. If you lost its cause you didn't prepare. TLDR I can 4 gate all day long every game but that doesnt mean I have to push and therefore Im not all in I'm not cheesing? No one is making you push with any of these builds or push to kill. Hell you can push to pressure with these. If you use a all-in build you did that on your own. How you use it is totally up you not every build - insta win many dont actually come to think of it non-of them do. | ||
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trixcit
5 Posts
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sharky246
1197 Posts
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YuMSc2
Switzerland104 Posts
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JasinAli
Sweden37 Posts
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AWESOME1337
Germany29 Posts
On December 25 2010 19:21 JasinAli wrote: Did he say he got the warpgate tech? Imo not neccesary if your going for an early all in. Just go three gate and a cyber and pump out zealots untill your cyber is done and then transfer to stalkers. Of course you need the warpgate... you want to build a pylon in front of their base to get the reinforcements ASAP. PvP with out Warpgate is just stupid. | ||
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CCalms
United States341 Posts
On December 25 2010 18:57 rexyrex wrote: is it possible to deal with 2 gate (zealots) with this build? If they 10gate and you don't scout then you're screwed, and if you defend initial 2 zealots and don't change your BO then you're screwed. EDIT: After lots of experimentation, I found that this build is a lot safer than I thought against 10gating protoss. I still doubt it can hold up against a 2gate all-in without some build order compromises, but if it's possible to hold off until you get your stalker out then it might be possible. | ||
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funky247
Canada4 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 9 Pylon 11 Chrono Nexus 12 Chrono Nexus 13 Gateway 14 Assimilator 15 Chrono Nexus 16 Pylon 18 Cybernetics Core 18 Gateway 19 Move Probe To Gas 19 Zealot 21 Move Probe To Gas 22 Gateway 22 Move Probe To Gas 23 Warp Gate Transformation 23 Pylon 23 Chrono Cybernetics Core 24 Zealot 26 Chrono Cybernetics Core 26 Assimilator 26 Stalker 28 Zealot 30 Pylon 30 Stalker 32 Move Probe To Gas 33 Move Probe To Gas 33 Zealot 36 Stalker 38 Chrono Gateway 38 Stalker 40 Pylon 40 Zealot 42 Chrono Gateway 42 Move Probe To Gas 42 Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 42 Chrono Warp Gate 42 Stalker 44 Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 44 Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 44 Stalker 46 Stalker 48 Stalker Thoughts, anyone? | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On November 24 2010 05:03 whoopadeedoo wrote: This what I was afraid of starting in beta. SC2 is going to come down to optimized, complicated rush builds with all the new mechanics. When these become the strat de jour, a natural counter will become the other strat de jour until another gimmicky build comes along and starts a new cycle. The more I play SC2, the more I'm realizing the game play is fatally flawed compared to BW. Someone didn't play much starcraft in its first year, did they? There's actually a lot LESS cheese in SC2 right now than there was in SC1 back then, because the general concepts on how to stop cheese are known. Everyone as every race did the fastest rush they could, or didnt play melee games because "all that matters is rushing" It was the point that most low level players did no-rush 5-10-whatever minute games because it made the game more interesting, rather than being super super short. | ||
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
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shabinka
United States469 Posts
On January 18 2011 10:01 dmillz wrote: Why does everyone assume a quick hard pressure push at the start is a cheesy all-in? With this build you can go in and put on serious pressure, possibly win. But its not like your totally fucked if you don't end the game right away. The general consensus on TL right now is ... YOU'RE BUILDING PROBES/SCVS/DRONES? That's an all in! | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On November 24 2010 02:45 darmousseh wrote: Here you go, here is a 2 warpgate robo build where you can have 24 probes, 4 zealots, 2 stalkers, 2 sentries, and 2 immortals to deal with a lot of early pressure builds. This is after 300m games. + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 10S - Build Probe 0:19.00: 73M 0G 10E 7/ 10S - Build Probe 0:36.00: 106M 0G 19E 8/ 10S - Build Probe 0:44.10: 100M 0G 24E 9/ 10S - Build Pylon 0:54.19: 50M 0G 29E 9/ 10S - Build Probe 1:11.19: 107M 0G 39E 10/ 18S - Build Probe 1:11.19: 57M 0G 39E 11/ 18S - Chrono Nexus 1:22.52: 136M 0G 20E 11/ 18S - Build Probe 1:30.83: 150M 0G 25E 12/ 18S - Build Gateway 1:37.80: 50M 0G 29E 12/ 18S - Build Probe 1:37.80: 0M 0G 29E 13/ 18S - Chrono Nexus 1:49.14: 95M 0G 10E 13/ 18S - Build Probe 2:01.80: 161M 0G 17E 14/ 18S - Build Probe 2:01.80: 111M 0G 17E 15/ 18S - Build Assimilator 2:06.13: 75M 0G 20E 15/ 18S - Build Assimilator 2:15.33: 89M 0G 25E 15/ 18S - Chrono Nexus 2:17.65: 111M 0G 1E 15/ 18S - Build Probe 2:28.98: 180M 0G 8E 16/ 18S - Build Probe 2:35.83: 205M 0G 12E 17/ 18S - Build Cybernetics Core 2:40.09: 100M 0G 14E 17/ 18S - Build Pylon 2:40.09: 0M 0G 14E 17/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 2:40.09: 0M 0G 14E 17/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 2:45.82: 50M 8G 17E 17/ 18S - Build Probe 2:45.82: 0M 8G 17E 18/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 3:05.09: 188M 45G 28E 18/ 26S - Build Probe 3:05.09: 138M 45G 28E 19/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 3:05.09: 138M 45G 28E 19/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 3:22.09: 295M 96G 38E 19/ 26S - Build Probe 3:22.09: 245M 96G 38E 20/ 26S - Build Zealot 3:25.83: 181M 107G 40E 22/ 26S - Research Warp Gate Transformation 3:39.09: 262M 97G 47E 22/ 26S - Build Probe 3:40.01: 222M 100G 48E 23/ 26S - Build Robotics Facility 3:56.09: 184M 48G 57E 23/ 26S - Build Probe 3:57.61: 150M 53G 58E 24/ 26S - Build Gateway 4:13.16: 167M 100G 66E 24/ 26S - Build Sentry 4:13.16: 117M 0G 66E 26/ 26S - Build Pylon 4:20.65: 100M 23G 70E 26/ 26S - Build Pylon 4:20.65: 0M 23G 70E 26/ 26S - Chrono Cybernetics Core 4:20.65: 0M 23G 45E 26/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:45.01: 265M 110G 59E 26/ 34S - Build Immortal 4:48.16: 50M 21G 61E 30/ 42S - Build Probe 4:57.09: 100M 53G 66E 31/ 42S - Build Zealot 5:06.02: 100M 85G 71E 33/ 42S - Build Zealot 5:06.02: 0M 85G 71E 35/ 42S - Move Probe To Minerals 5:10.13: 50M 98G 73E 35/ 42S - Build Probe 5:18.24: 100M 122G 78E 36/ 42S - Build Pylon 5:35.83: 215M 175G 88E 36/ 42S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 5:35.83: 215M 175G 88E 36/ 42S - Chrono Robotics Facility 5:35.83: 215M 175G 63E 36/ 42S - Move Probe To Gas 5:38.66: 250M 185G 64E 36/ 42S - Build Immortal 5:45.83: 88M 111G 68E 40/ 50S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 5:45.83: 88M 111G 68E 40/ 50S - Chrono Gateway 5:45.83: 88M 111G 43E 40/ 50S - Build Sentry 5:52.49: 121M 35G 47E 42/ 50S - Build Zealot 5:52.49: 21M 35G 47E 44/ 50S - Chrono Warp Gate 5:57.56: 83M 53G 25E 44/ 50S - Chrono Robotics Facility 6:11.16: 251M 102G 8E 44/ 50S - Build Stalker 6:11.16: 126M 52G 8E 46/ 50S - Build Stalker Waypoint 1 satisfied: 6:16.16: 63M 20G 10E 48/ 50S Income: 740M 215G Buildings: 1 Nexus 2 Assimilator 5 Pylon 2 Warp Gate 1 Cybernetics Core 1 Robotics Facility Units: 24 Probe 4 Zealot 2 Stalker 2 Sentry 2 Immortal Upgrades: Warp Gate Transformation Sorry, I havent read thru the whole thread yet cos its quite long so forgive me if someone has commented already....but is this build finally a counter to the 4WG??!! | ||
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lilky
United States131 Posts
will definitely be trying that out. as for the op, this build would never work against me. My 4gate finishes at 5:25 with a zealot and stalker out before that. Thats 1 z 1s + 2 batches of warp ins = 10 units ready before this build hits, not to mention 1 sentry would ruin this entire build. | ||
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giuocob
United States149 Posts
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yourwhiteshadow
United States442 Posts
however, the build looks convincing as you could probably warp in zealots near the enemy base to cut down on zealot traveling time, making the rush even more effective. | ||
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Mitchlew
Australia428 Posts
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Inflexion
Canada560 Posts
On January 26 2011 21:03 Mitchlew wrote: I was wondering whether or not this could be easily transitioned into a 6 gate attack against zerg. Do the same build, pressure / push the zerg base but don't over commit. Throw down expo as well as 3 more gates and continue a normal 6 gate push. Or would the probe count be too low and make this ineffective. If you're talking pressure/push the zerg why don't just execute the 3warpgate expand or a variation of it? You'll have the option to pressure if you want and you'll have the probe count to continue on to mid/late game with the ability to tech to robo or stargate. If you're commiting to a 4 gate and you want it to actually to do damage, why half ass it? Just do an actual 4gate. Disguise it well and it's insanely strong and will kill or cripple most zergs. When I see a 4gate, the mentality of zerg is 'defend this, and I win'. And most of the time it's true. Once the 4gate is defended and the forward pylon is destroyed, ALL ZERGS will counter attack with zerglings/roaches. Game is basically over. Toss has zero map control, low probe count and no tech. If you try to expand and transition out of a 4gate (which will hinder your 4gate, which results in a lower chance of success), you're just going to die to ling/roaches counter or the zerg will just expand once more and you'll get raped in lategame. | ||
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TheResidentEvil
United States991 Posts
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