[D] Unbeatable 2v2 Build ? (PZ) - Page 12

Before going into some of the later replies, I'd want to say that imho the build is REALLY hard to hold if you don't have at least one terran on your team. For obvious reasons the build suffers HEAVILY if you play it on maps with shared bases. If you do not share a base terran is the only race who can defend against this build without getting help from his mate. Blocking the ramp, while patrolling marines to scout for the pylon(s) makes it really hard for the sling+zealot to be effective. You can in almost every case get your second barracks quite fast upon scouting the build (P with early gate + Z with early gas/pool tell the tale; after this P stopping gas after 50), which ensures you a good amount of marines before the first warpin comes. If the Zerg doesn't add a bling nest (which greatly reduces the number of his lings = it sucks T_T;) , you should just hold it.

A zerg can obviously not hold this off without any help. Since he won't block the ramp he will just get overrun. Even with a spine and wicked hold-position tricks you need help.
What can help a little are early-pool builds. Neither the protoss, nor the zerg have enough units to really deal with it early on. I don't mean 6pool all-ins. 8pool going for 8 zerglings followed by a queen can be way enough to really mess up the protoss. Microed well he is almost guaranteed to lose a lot of mining-time or quite some probes, both delaying the push considerably.
You still need to deal with the zerg, but this often helps letting your mate get units before the 5gate is up.
If you are two zerg the whole thing turns into a micro-fest where you need some good decisionmaking regarding spine/queen and hold-position. :D

Almost the same for the protoss. If you go for a "normal" 12gate+17/18cc at your front, the first warp-in will almost automatically break your block since you wont be able to defend both in-base and the edge at the same time.
An option is to get a fast second gate, though. On most maps you scout the first opponent about the same time you place your 12gate, after scouting both the second gate is still in-time so that you can get enough zealots chrono-boosted out to handle the warp-in. Especially if you don't use another CB after your 12gate; whatever you saw till then should make you suspicious enough.
If your mate for any reason delayed the protoss any pylon in your allies base can help him considerably defending, asuming you are safe.

Adressing the new maps I am not 100% sure.
Taking a closer look at the maps the ones that carried over don't really matter.

Maps that were dropped:

Tarsonis Assault:
The wide ramp helps the build as well as the fact, that you can place pylons outside the bases that can warp-in without any nearby overlords. You can even place a pylon on the highground, depending on the starting-position of the victim.

Arid Wastes:
Dealing with the build on this map was just disgusting. It is the 2on2 map with the longest distance between the allied ramps, which really helps the build big time!

Twighlight Fortress:
Shared base, easy to hold.

War Zone:
Not good for the build. (Though almost a freewin for Speedling/Marine so I am glad they dropped it.)

New Maps:

Gutterhulk:
Kind of far between allied ramps. Quite good map for the build.

Khaydarin Depths:
Close distances between both you and your ally and you and your opponent. One of the best maps you can get without shared bases, still the build can be quite effective.

Omega Sector:
Somewhat shared bases. The plateaus at the outskirt make it harder, but you can either wall them off or try to block the space the pylon can warp into and thus deny the warp-in.

Red Stone Gulch:
Same as Khaydarin Depths, though the map is even weirder, kind of, cause you got the back-rocks.

The Ruins of Tarsonis:
Shared base, easy to hold.

In total you had TF and WZ removed, where you could deal with the build rather well but I feel that taking out AW easily makes up for that.
The addition of two shared-base maps does not really help the build, so imho KD and RSG decide on which maps the build was better, which I find hard to judge. Especially considering the short amount of time and thus the limited games I have played on those maps, yet.
The length of the border is imho not that important because you can hardly deny the warp-in itself anyway. Just knowing where it will be is the best you can hope for. :D

I don't agree with you at all. There is really no way you can ever kill the probe and killing all pylons before completion is quite impossible as well. The Probe wont run into your base, you know.
If you got a zerg, just try to hold this when their zerg secures your ramp and the protoss waits for his first 10 zealots before they charge together. If your mate's ramp is not REALLY close to yours GL holding it that long.

I agree with all of the mapcontroll-part. Holding other Z all-ins without a Z might not be easy if your bases are seperated, still I don't like Z in 2on2 lategame. In 2on2 it is way harder to get more bases up than your opponents, because the thirds are usually really wide open and vulnerable to any kind of pushes. Getting a ton of lings as you are normally forced to in 2on2 makes you suffer losses regarding your units' cost/upkeep efficiency from the midgame on, just compare it to any heavy tank or ray/colo stuff.
This is ofc just how I feel it, The gap between muta/hydra and broodlord/ultra just feels so enormous in 2on2. But as stated, I am not really good, just played a few more 2on2s than most of the others. :D